SE Closed loop conversion. Better Economy?

[blacknight]

Looking to convert my SE to a closed loop system, and wondered if anyone having completed this conversion noticed an improvement in any way.

I know that I will require the lambda senor thingy (Rock auto have it) and will have to upgrade my ECU to a S2 map.

Any other points I need to think about?

Cheers

Iain

[Enright]

Yep, much better economy in my case.
My car had always had a bit of a drink problem which I'd never been able to find the cause of. Turning it closed loop didn't FIND the problem, but it did BYPASS it as the ECU gave priority to the mixture signal it was reading and altered all the other parameters to correct it.
The result was that the emissions quartered at the next MOT test (almost enough to pass a cat test even without a cat)!

I would recommend installing an ESM V5 Switcher module with half the programs for SE and half for S2, then leaving both your CO potentiometer and your O2 sensor connected. That way if your O2 sensor ever goes down you can just switch back to open loop mode (and you have lots of different boost levels to play with)!

[rip]

I know that I will require the lambda senor thingy (Rock auto have it) and will have to upgrade my ECU to a S2 map.

I have a spare (new) one of these, a Bosch 15726. You can have it for what I paid. Snag is the connector: it is not fitted & the ones provided don't fit our Elan, so you'll have to get the soldering iron out. The wires are not the same colour as on the car either, but I have a copy of the S2 wiring diagram (somewhere).
I have tried to find the connector at motor stores, Maplins, RS components and done a few searches on the net, but have yet to find the right one.

[MattDon]

im also looking to do this for the same reasons, im getting through around £40 a week in petrol, which doesnt seem right considering the mpg we're supposed to get.

[bratboy_y2k]

hey folks im in canada. would this work on my car? what ind of economy change can one expect?

[ailwyn]

hey folks im in canada. would this work on my car? what ind of economy change can one expect?

Are you sure that you don't already have an O2 sensor? It will be loacated to the left side of the turbo as you look from the front, in the exhast downpipe - there's a cut-out in the turbo heatshield for it.

If you don't have one, then the same benefits will probably be achieved, but I was under the impression that all the exports to that side of the pond were already fitted with them.

[blacknight]

Thanks RIP for the kind offer.

My souldering skills are second to everyone so I will probably go with an off the shelf unit.

The three potential candidates are.......

BOSCH 13277
AIRTEX 5S3365
NGK 21012

All vary in price but seem to be unavailable from UK retailers.

Unsure on the ECU map route to take. If I go with a switcher, will I actually use all the potential maps? Also will failure of the sensor actually prevent the car from running? When I had lambda sensor failure on the elise it did not cause any running issues except slightly higher fuel consumption.

Advice always appreciated.

Cheers

Iain

[ailwyn]

Iain,

A dead O2 sensor won't affect the running of the car, except probably run the engine too rich - I inadvertantly left the O2 disconnected once, and apart from the CEL being on it was fine.

Ailwyn

[blacknight]

Got all the bits fitted today!

Amazing change with Everest fitted!! Will be interesting to see how fuel economy improves?

Previously getting 250 miles to a tank on normal driving! Will post new fuel figures once novelty of chip dies down

All I can say about chip is WOW

Cheers

Iain

[Enright]

All I can say about chip is WOW

Now you can see why we recommend upgraded brakes!
Oh and you probably won't see a massive improvement in economy to begin with, but that's mainly to do with how much you're enjoying all this new found power.

[rip]

Got all the bits fitted today!

What O2 sensor did you use & where did you get it?

I just can't get a connector to work with mine and stubbornly refuse to cut off the existing plug & get the iron onto it....
So my O2 sensor is back on the shelf & I'm running with a stock ECU.

I do have experience of what it's like to run a closed-loop mapping without a working O2 sensor though...It runs fine until warm (because it is running open-loop at this point). Once warm, the ECU switches to closed-loop, finds that the sensor is not working, turns on the CEL on & defaults to stock(ish) boost levels.

As for your earlier question about a switcher:- if you get a hybrid like Enright's, half of your programs will be for closed-loop & the other half will still be available should the O2 sensor ever fail. You'll get Stock, Kili v4, Everest v4, Elysium V4, Kili v5, Everest v5 & Elysium v5 for each (that's 14 modes) as well as garage mode which makes 15.
I had such a switcher, but with the new switch which ESM subsequently recalled

[blacknight]

Used oxygen sensor Bosch 13277. This was purchased from Rock Auto.

Has the correct plug fitted and no modifications required at all! Just plug and play!

Decided to run a 1499 based everest for my closed loop system. Only been in since Tuesday and already showing better fuel economy (altough I do drive 40 miles every day in mine) even with improved performance.

Smiles per mile is up too

Cheers

Iain

[rip]

Mine just won't work.
I have ditched the Bosch with converted plug and now have a delco sensor fitted with a proper plug, but the ECU is receiving no input from the sensor. (Elanscan readings from the sensor are the same as before I fitted it & was running with a stock 9929).
Are there any fuses which I need to replace which may previously have been redundant & therefore removed?

What did surprise me is that the ECU does not check engine temperature before switching to closed-loop but instead appears to switch after a predetermined time...so, once warm, I can turn engine off/on & enjoy max boost for 3-4 minutes before the CEL comes on again. Once on, it appears to default to stock settings.

[ailwyn]

Rip,

I'm not up on the memcal classifications, but you are running an S2 chip?

Ailwyn

[rip]

Yes, I've got a 1499 (S2, closed loop) Everest running in a 9929 (SE, open loop) ECM so I am expecting it to know what to do with the O2 sensor.
Elanscan has confirmed that the CEL is for an O2 sensor error.

I did check the fuse sheet I picked up at Donigton this year, but that is for an SE, so I was wondereing if the S2 had an additional fuses?

[ailwyn]

I maus admit I don't know, but I can't see any reason to have a fuse between the ECU and O2 sensor.

Have you tried a continuity test between the O2 sensor and the loom connector, and the loom connector and the ECU? Is it definately the right O2 sensor (correct pinouts etc)?

I don't recall Neil having to do anything except for the S2 chip and the sensor so you may have a broken wire/poor connection somewhere.

A.

[rip]

I have not metered anything yet.

I remember checking the manuals before (the ones downloaded from here) & the circuit diagram for closed-loop is missing...so I don't know what wire it would be at the ECU end.

Where would I connect the meter on the plug itself? The connector end is no problem, but I would expect the other end of this to be buried somewhere within the sensor housing.

I will spend some time with the meter investigating this.
...when I am at home in daylight
...when it is not raining
...when I have not got other (non-Elan) things which really must be done

[Enright]

I don't recall Neil having to do anything except for the S2 chip and the sensor so you may have a broken wire/poor connection somewhere.

Well, only small difference was that I installed one of the first V5 switchers, so I left both CO pot and O2 sensor connected at the same time, and can just switch between the two, but other than that Ailwyn's spot on. Sounds wierd. You could do with borrowing an S2 ECU I think to see if it runs the same.

[Gee0]

Can I hijack this with a couple of questions.

1. Is this a plug and play item?
2. I have a se with an Everest chip, Will I have to replace the MemCel and or the chip?
3. The three options of sensor are listed but no prices. What are they?

Gerry

[rip]

3. The three options of sensor are listed but no prices. What are they?

Where have you seen this? Blacknight & I both got our sensors from Rockautos & they have prices listed.

It should be almost plug and play. The connector is already there on an SE.
You will need to treat the large bolt in the exhaust manifold with penetrating oil for a few days (this is the bolt in the big hole in the turbo heat shield), then you will find that after 15+ years of use, it is rusted pretty tight.
I plugged an 1499 (S2, Closed-loop) Everest chip in my SE ECU, which I believe is exactly what Blacknight did successfully.

Mine is a 1990 model. I am wondering if the wiring had changed slightly, but I suspect that this is unlikely.

When the CEL is on, mine appears to run just like it did when stock, so I think it is defaulting to my stock chip's program when the Everest complains.

Can I hijack this with a couple of questions.

How is this a hijack? Still very much on the original topic.