SE Closed loop conversion. Better Economy?

[Gee0]

3. The three options of sensor are listed but no prices. What are they?

Where have you seen this? Blacknight & I both got our sensors from Rockautos & they have prices listed.

The three potential candidates are.......

BOSCH 13277
AIRTEX 5S3365
NGK 21012

Listed, no prices

I plugged an 1499 (S2, Closed-loop) Everest chip in my SE ECU, which I believe is exactly what Blacknight did successfully.

So I will have to change my Everest chip to a closed-loop one, Is this correct.

Can I hijack this with a couple of questions.

How is this a hijack? Still very much on the original topic.

The guys seem to be quite far down the discussion and felt that I was taking it back a few steps and being a polite paddy well !!!!

[rip]

3. The three options of sensor are listed but no prices. What are they?

Where have you seen this? Blacknight & I both got our sensors from Rockautos & they have prices listed.

The three potential candidates are.......

BOSCH 13277
AIRTEX 5S3365
NGK 21012

Listed, no prices

Ah, I believe that is a quick summary of those on Rock Auto's site

I plugged an 1499 (S2, Closed-loop) Everest chip in my SE ECU, which I believe is exactly what Blacknight did successfully.

So I will have to change my Everest chip to a closed-loop one, Is this correct.

Yes.
Enright went for a switcher with both open & closed-loop programs. This will allow him to switch back to open-loop if the O2 sensor ever causes problems. I believe ESM has currently withdrawn the switcher because Moates changed their switch unit & the new one appears to draw too much current from the ECU.

[GeoffSmith]

I have not metered anything yet.

I remember checking the manuals before (the ones downloaded from here) & the circuit diagram for closed-loop is missing...so I don't know what wire it would be at the ECU end.

Where would I connect the meter on the plug itself? The connector end is no problem, but I would expect the other end of this to be buried somewhere within the sensor housing.

I will spend some time with the meter investigating this.
...when I am at home in daylight
...when it is not raining
...when I have not got other (non-Elan) things which really must be done

Rip, check out the service manual EMJ.4 Page 64-67: The O2 signal goes to the RH front-main harness connector pin 8 back to pin D7 on the ECU and pin 4 to a live supply via NY26B (identified as a splice. It also gives some diagnostics that you could do with ElanScan.

[lotos]

I have no idea what we're talking about (closed loop?) but ebay has a simple solution to your fuel economy needs, and it is specifically designed JUST for your car:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lotus-Elise-Espir ... 240%3A1318

[rip]

I have no idea what we're talking about (closed loop?) but ebay has a simple solution to your fuel economy needs, and it is specifically designed JUST for your car:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lotus-Elise-Espir ... 240%3A1318

I am always sceptical about gimmicky things like that, but I can explain closed/open loop:

Open loop: Fixed adjustment of fuel system.
Closed loop: Oxygen (Lambda) sensor placed in the exust feeds data about emissions back to the ECU which then adjusts the fuel mixture accordingly.

I believe all Fed Elans were closed-loop.

[Coupeboy]

I've been following the trials of fellow members avidly as I am trying to do the O2 sensor conversion on my SE Turbo as well. Amazingly, from what I've read, I have just undone the blank in the exhaust manifold (1 squirt of WD40 for 2 nights, a short run and then bingo with a largish torque wrench, the heat must have helped). What I'm stuck with is how to modify the ECU. Again from what I've read, I think I just need the 1499 memcal/chip which piggy backs into the existing board and not a complete Federal ECU - is this right? If I understand correctly I can buy an Everest 1499 memcal/chip from the ESM website which would work but I just wanted to know if there's a way to do it with stock parts for stock boost and from where I would get them. Or would I have to get a complete Federal ECU in this case? Thanks

[Enright]

I've been following the trials of fellow members avidly as I am trying to do the O2 sensor conversion on my SE Turbo as well. Amazingly, from what I've read, I have just undone the blank in the exhaust manifold (1 squirt of WD40 for 2 nights, a short run and then bingo with a largish torque wrench, the heat must have helped). What I'm stuck with is how to modify the ECU. Again from what I've read, I think I just need the 1499 memcal/chip which piggy backs into the existing board and not a complete Federal ECU - is this right? If I understand correctly I can buy an Everest 1499 memcal/chip from the ESM website which would work but I just wanted to know if there's a way to do it with stock parts for stock boost and from where I would get them. Or would I have to get a complete Federal ECU in this case? Thanks

Well done with the bung - that's the hardest bit out of the way!
Yes you're right - you could buy the Everest 1499 and that would do the job.
Alan might even be prepared to provide a copy of the standard memcal. It would probably work out cheaper than a genuine Lotus one.
Having said that, it wouldn't surprise me if Federal ECU's were pretty cheap now.
But my recommendation would be to go the V5 switcher route, because then you can select anywhere between "flat as a fart" and "balls out"!

[GeoffSmith]

As Neil says, just get a piggy back 1499 board or V5 switcher however......

Alan might even be prepared to provide a copy of the standard memcal. It would probably work out cheaper than a genuine Lotus one.

Unfortunately, not an option. The limp-home circuit needs to be retained and the EPROM that needs replacing is very old and not something Alan can provide and I'm pretty sure you can't get them from Lotus either.

[ailwyn]

Geoff,

I think Neil means get a copy of the stock S2 chip from Alan using the same adaptor method as the other mountain chips.

A.

[rip]

Rip, check out the service manual EMJ.4 Page 64-67: The O2 signal goes to the RH front-main harness connector pin 8 back to pin D7 on the ECU and pin 4 to a live supply via NY26B (identified as a splice. It also gives some diagnostics that you could do with ElanScan.

Thanks for the reference, Geoff.
I actually get code 13, which is covered by EMJ.5 Page 4.
I am not sure how I can use Elanscan here since I will be turning the engine off part-way, have no mains sockets anywhere near the garage/car & my laptop battery will not accept/hold any charge at all.
I really need 2 people for the tests, 1 at the engine end & another at the ALDL end
What I have found is:
I get a varying voltage between sensor signal wire & casing. I think this climbed towards 1v when the engine warmed.
My meter shows a closed circuit between the O2 sensor's ground & the boost transducer's ground, so it looks like that is ok.
There appears to be no supply voltage for the heater. All I can find from the manuals is that this is spliced from NY26B, but can't find what else is on this circuit.

I WILL have my Elan running error-free by Monday afternoon even if I have to go back to open-loop. Maybe that will not be such a bad thing because I'll be able to take some scans to compare stock vs Piper exhaust performance more closely.

[blacknight]

Just a quick update.

Everything running fine. Getting slightly better economy. This is completely due to me driving more "balls out" than usual (still).

Novelty has not worn off yet and still exploring the capabilities of Everest

Altough it is clear that it is running more efficiently as I am still returning better mpg than before even with a heavier right foot!

Cheers

Iain

[Enright]

Just a quick update.

Everything running fine. Getting slightly better economy. This is completely due to me driving more "balls out" than usual (still).

Novelty has not worn off yet and still exploring the capabilities of Everest

Altough it is clear that it is running more efficiently as I am still returning better mpg than before even with a heavier right foot!

Cheers

Iain

Nice - pretty much bears out what I found.
Got any comparative figures?

[DeeAitch]

Anyone have an S2 wiring Diagram showing the 02 sensor? All I can find is the one in the closed loop version of EMJ 4, page 32.
What I'm looking for is where the supply to the 02 sensor heater comes from - the diag only states 'splice' Is it via a relay / fuse? If so which one

Thanks in keen anticipation

[GeoffSmith]

Yep!

Figure EMJ.4-7

[DeeAitch]

Yep!

Figure EMJ.4-7

Thanks for that Geoff
Now I'm puddled
From this it looks like the heater is wired direct from the Alternator charge light circuit - it's something like a 30W heater yet it has no fuse or relay, seems to be wired full time, getting a full 12v only when the engine is running.
Now I know there are loads of Elans out there with the O2 sensor working just fine but I was wondering what the Electrical bods - and Ex Geordies - think of it all.
Is the Alternator really up to it / supposed to work this way?

[GeoffSmith]

That's what I telt yer at 9 o'clock on Sarada you drunken old Geordie!

[GeoffSmith]

Just to put your mind at rest, I've just checked mine and I get <1V with the ignition on (12V via the charging light) and ~14V once the engine starts. The supply is coming from the drive to the alternator field winding so there's a bit of umph behind it, but like you I'm surprised that it's not fused!

[DeeAitch]

That's what I telt yer at 9 o'clock on Sarada you drunken old Geordie!

Ah kna wot ye sed marra and it was comforting . Thought I'd let everyone else in on it
So no worries, the Alternator no charge circuit is up to it
Phew!

[GeoffSmith]

Four pins and glands in the post tonight.

[DeeAitch]

Four pins and glands in the post tonight.

It's true - you can take the Geordie out of Newcastle but .......................