ESM Chips - Information & Help

[GeoffSmith]

This is where the MBC really works nice, the MBC give your the control over your boost that the ECU can not do on its own. If you are using a MBC make sure to disconnect the boost control sensor so then the ECU has no control over the wastegate

Therein lies the problem. Disconnecting the boost control valve gives the ECU no way of controlling the boost and the ECU contol system is effectively going open loop. The usual 'fix' when fuel cutoff is experienced is to inhibit the ECU overboost fuel cutoff by chipping the ECU or adding a fuel cut defender; the former can result in mammoth overboost if e.g. the wastegate actuator sticks (been there, done that, got the T shirt, binned the MBC and Superchip {oxymoron if ever I've heard one} and fitted a Mountain) and the latter constantly fools the ECU that the boost isn't as high as it really is (so unless you fool the ECU into injecting more fuel by fitting bigger injectors like TigerDoug, you are constantly running too lean which can burn holes in pistons - ask Paul Watkins, he's experienced it). The ECU will also not be able to protect the engine by limiting the boost when it is cold.

On the other hand, the Mountain range has been developed by ESM who has ensured that the ECU gives increased boost characteristics but with complete control of the boost level and still with the belt and braces safety of fuel cutoff if a potentially damaging problem occurs.

Personally, I wouldn't even consider an MBC if you value your engine. True, many people have got away with it but as the engines get older, I believe there is more likelihood of damage due to the overly aggressive boost characteristics and loss of fuel cutoff when something else goes wrong (as things tend to as they get older).

A bigger exhaust will improve the turbo's response time (spool up?) and ability to sustain boost as it reduces the resistance at the turbo exit port and the turbo works by pressure difference across it (so ideally it is vented straight to atmosphere). As Algirdas says, you may not need to port the wastegate at your rarefied elevation but it's not the end of the world if you get boost creep - I had it for many months before I got round to porting the wastegate and learned to drive with a slightly less heavy right foot.

I've got a K&N filter which is claimed to clean the air as well as OEM filters and I'll no doubt fit it one day. As said above, in general, if the filter is freer flowing, it's letting more crap into the turbo/engine. I find it ironic that the exponents of higher free flow air filters are quite often bought into the BOV/dump valve argument, usually because they want to protect the turbo blades from the pressure rise when the throttle is closed - I'd prefer to let those robust little vanes experience an increase in air pressure (which will probably be limited by the ability of the pipework to maintain the pressure) than be peppered by supersonic microscopic particles. As you may have guessed, in the absence of more authorititive information, I'm not entirely swayed by the free flow filter argument and am less than convinced on the BOV argument.

Geoff

[lotos]

Ahh, consensus. Wait. What's the opposite of consensus?

Has anyone had a turbo fail on them? I have been reading over and over again that a BOV's main purpose is to protect the turbo. Is this a realistic concern?

[Enright]

Stevo has. So has MartinR. Cost them an arm and a leg to get sorted.

Paul Watkins' destroyed piston problem (as mentioned by Geoff above) was more likely to have been a spark plug whose electrode fractured, failed, and got lodged between the piston and the bore. Still not pretty result though!

[algirdas]

Dear Randy:

My blow off valve is a Greddy that I bought as part of a group buy which Lotus Girl Marie (LGM) orchestrated. Its purpose to to cut down on the stalling of the turbo when you shift gears. In a stock set-up, when the throttle body snaps shut, the flow of air stops momentarily and the flow of air is interrupted. The turbo is still on full song so it is keeps packing more and more air into that space. When it starts getting more difficult for it to so do, it starts stalling. Then you open the throttle body and the pressure built up in the intake runner drops and we all wait for the turbo to spool up again. The blow off valve allows the turbo to stay on full song while the throttle body snaps shut by allowing the air to be vented to the atmosphere or re-cycled back into the inlet side of the turbo.

I think it has made a difference in my car. It does seem to get back on the boost quicker during shifts but I have no empirical evidence to support it. Just a seat-of-the-pants observation. I can do without the "boy racer" whoosh and will re-cycle the charge someday.

As far as the turbo is concerned, it is a maintenance item. They wear out. They can fail, but it is usually from lack of lubrication or cooling and not from being thrashed hard.

Sincerely,

Algirdas

[rich_de]

The car I recently bought is non-cat (I was told it was originally sold to Italy). For improved fuel economy and German emission regulations, I would like to fit an O2-sensor and at least the main catalyst. On the site wiki, ESM apparently has written the page on the closed-loop upgrade, mentioning that the fitting of the right one of the chips will leave the exchange of either ECU or MEMCAL unneccessary.

From my understanding installing the O2 sensor and an Everest 1499 chip should be everything required for the engine-side conversion. I checked with Ralf Burk of B+B Sportwagen, who is a rather reputable Elan expert here in Germany. He mentioned that the CO-Screw on the ECU connector B12 would be replaced with the input of an EGR sensor on fully emission-controlled cars.

Now, that was quite a bit... here are my questions:

- Will O2-sensor and an Everest (1499?) Chip suffice for the close-loop upgrade?

- What about the EGR sensor? (Is that for California only?! Is the input ignored in the 49-States Version?)

TIA for any enlightenment!

[Doug]

the EGR valve works in both California and 49 state Federal cars. The California emissions also has a EGR temperature sensor in the mix.

a few Elans have been converted as you plan to do with no problems and I think all you need is the O2 and the chip as you theorize. Not sure about the EGR--likely someone who has done the swap can be of help

[Enright]

I agree with Doug - I've done it and there's no need to worry about the EGR.
Just chip and O2 sensor and off you go, breathing life back into our knackered planet!

[rip]

I agree with Doug - I've done it and there's no need to worry about the EGR.
Just chip and O2 sensor and off you go, breathing life back into our knackered planet!

Didn't work for me. Enjoying my boost creep (caused by my new Piper 'zaust) far too much to fault-find yet though. I intend to get it sorted sometime though.

[rich_de]

... I think all you need is the O2 and the chip as you theorize. ... agree with Doug - I've done it and there's no need to worry about the EGR.
Just chip and O2 sensor and off you go, breathing life back into our knackered planet! ... Didn't work for me. Enjoying my boost creep

Is that 1 positive guess and 1 actual positive attempt against 1 actual negative attempt? Or was the negative only because of the boost creep issue (i.e. just how much "didn't work" for you)? I will run a stock exhaust with catalyst, so as I read the forum, boost creep should be a non-issue for me with the back-pressure I get from the exhaust system.

On a slightly different record, and just out of curiosity: did anyone ever fit a 3 bar MAP sensor, larger injector nozzles, and have ESM make a software to go with that?

[GeoffSmith]

I've done it and there's no need to worry about the EGR.

Not strictly true - if there are stringent NOx limits in Germany, EGR may need to be implemented to reduce these. What levels (CO & NOx) do you have to meet Richy?

With a stock exhaust and cats you'll have no worries about boost creep.

Tigerdog was after a re-mapped setup from ESM as he already has larger injectors and MAP sensor.

[rich_de]

if there are stringent NOx limits in Germany, EGR may need to be implemented to reduce these. What levels (CO & NOx) do you have to meet Richy?

No NOx limits. I'd have to meet 0.5% CO at idle and 0.3% CO with 3% precision of the O2 sensor during an AU (Abgasuntersuchung) if everything (car and papers) was in the desired state. As I wrote earlier, they didn't manage to understand their own paperwork when they registered the imported car, so the exact details are a bit of a mess atm. I'll work towards getting it reasonably right

Tigerdog was after a re-mapped setup from ESM as he already has larger injectors and MAP sensor.

The way I understand it, changing the sensor without the software should mess up the regulation. I found some formulas for the behaviour of the sensor on the net (zero guarantee that these numbers resemble any reality):

• 1 bar GM sensor 16072049 16017460 16187556 Vout = Vref ( ( 0.01059 * P ) - 0.10941 )
• BARO sensor 16022790 16006833 1 bar map sensor 16006835 16042459 Vout = Vref ( ( 0.01059 * P ) - 0.1518 )
• 2 bar GM sensor (can't find numbers) Vout = Vref ( ( 0.005 * P ) - 0.04 )
• 3 bar GM sensor 16040749 16036394 Vout = Vref ( ( 0.003183 * P ) - 0.003529 )

So without software to understand the changed linearity (0.01059 vs. 0.003183) and offset, a greater range sensor will do nothing but confuse the ECU with unexpected input. Slightly larger injectors would somehow work if the O2-regulation could compensate for them in closed loop. They'd just squirt a bit more during full load enrichment. It'd be much more desirable though if the ECU could actually compute the correct timings. An alternative idea would be to misappropriate the EGR valve control output to switch a fifth "floodgate" injector on high boost, like the Esprit does in the chargecooled versions. That would also allow MW50 injection for the most notorious hot-rodders, btw.

[nitroman]

I've come in to watch the Stupidbowl and consume me girlfriend's dinner, so testing has to wait an hour or two.
I installed a v4.5 chip, taking out one which said v5.0, which was a little confusing to me. Can anyone shed light on how a new chip has an earlier version number than one installed by the prior owner?

[nitroman]

Response (spool) is much faster with the new chip and also comes on with much less articulation of the throttle-peddle, meaning it spools even when not driving aggressively. It seems there is no longer any need to use a MBC, as this chip comes very close to matching the 'immediacy' which an MBC delivers. Perhaps I was the only one to agree with DocPhysics on that point, which this latest chip version seems to have finally muted.

I haven't had the ability to open it up toward the top-end but I will tonight on my drive back.

[Doc Fizzix]

Response (spool) is much faster with the new chip and also comes on with much less articulation of the throttle-peddle, meaning it spools even when not driving aggressively. It seems there is no longer any need to use a MBC, as this chip comes very close to matching the 'immediacy' which an MBC delivers. Perhaps I was the only one to agree with DocPhysics on that point, which this latest chip version seems to have finally muted.

I haven't had the ability to open it up toward the top-end but I will tonight on my drive back.

Hmmm

Maybe time to try a new chip myself

[lotos]

I've come in to watch the Stupidbowl and consume me girlfriend's dinner, so testing has to wait an hour or two.
I installed a v4.5 chip, taking out one which said v5.0, which was a little confusing to me. Can anyone shed light on how a new chip has an earlier version number than one installed by the prior owner?

From my understanding, there are two basic versions - 4 and 5. You had 5, which is the most extreme, and you've now got 4, albeit the newest version of level 4 (4.5) The website says the most recent version is 4.4, but I'll wager a guess he's upped that to 4.5, which you now have. Add to that the different mountains (Kilimanjaro, Everest, & Elysium) and we've got ourselves a seriously confusing set of chips It looks like V5 and Elysium only come on the switcher board setup.

[nitroman]

Wow, the boost is WAY silly off the gauge with this chip! It's too much overage, for too much duration (more than just 1 or 2 seconds), and happens too often (in anything but 1st gear). I suppose I should install the bored 21mm J-pipe I have, but in lieu of that, I'm thinking about this: I have a FCD installed. When the FCD switches to sending the constant 4.5v signal, why not use that as the relay wire to turn on an additional fuel injector installed right in front of the Throttle Body? Instead of limiting boost to 1 bar I could take full advantage of it instead. I would guess its shooting up to ~1.3 bar.

[GeoffSmith]

Matt, I would strongly recommend you disconnect the MBC and FCD and see what you think of just the chip by itself... you should find it a lot more controllable and everything will be operating as designed and within safe limits together with the last ditch safety of fuel cutoff if you're heading into dangerous territory.

[nitroman]

Matt, I would strongly recommend you disconnect the MBC and FCD and see what you think of just the chip by itself... you should find it a lot more controllable and everything will be operating as designed and within safe limits together with the last ditch safety of fuel cutoff if you're heading into dangerous territory.

I don't have an MBC on it. Without the FCD one must be CONSTANTLY vigilent, as the car will now reach boost-cut easily in any gear but 1st. In other words, this NEW chip has made boost-cut likely. For that reason, I only put the FCD on AFTER I had installed and experienced the NEW chip.

I have already mapped out the two ways I see to solve the problem. I did not put on the machined (21mm) J-pipe when I installed the mojo exhaust as 1 of the 4 bolts holding on the J-pipe support bracket would not budge.

[Elanlover]

Matt, I installed the switcher last fall just before putting the car up for the winter. I ran the car in elysium mode (V5 i think it is) and noticed fuel cutoff where the single program chip (everest v4.4) was not giving me this issue. I told Alan I'd run some elan scans on the car in the spring and wondered if this was happening due to the colder air of the fall (was hitting 45 F at the time). Since my car is still away and won't see the outside of the garage until April perhaps you could run some scans and send them to Alan if you get the chance?

I'd really prefer not to port the wastegate if I don't have to and Alan though that if he had some scans he might be able to see where some programming adjustments could be made. I suspect that anyone with a stock exhaust won't get overboost but we both have larger bore exhausts which isn't helping matters.

[nitroman]

Matt, I installed the switcher last fall just before putting the car up for the winter. I ran the car in elysium mode (V5 i think it is) and noticed fuel cutoff where the single program chip (everest v4.4) was not giving me this issue. I told Alan I'd run some elan scans on the car in the spring and wondered if this was happening due to the colder air of the fall (was hitting 45 F at the time). Since my car is still away and won't see the outside of the garage until April perhaps you could run some scans and send them to Alan if you get the chance?

I'd really prefer not to port the wastegate if I don't have to and Alan though that if he had some scans he might be able to see where some programming adjustments could be made. I suspect that anyone with a stock exhaust won't get overboost but we both have larger bore exhausts which isn't helping matters.

I don't mind getting all the boost I can get, I quite prefer it. I do want to "stay safe" though. My plan is to put forth my 2 solutions to two shops here in town and thereby know what's feasible.

Running this kind of boost you are kind of at the edge of what the tranny syncros can handle. Revving that quickly the syncros are really pressed to match the gear(s) speed against that of the swiftly spinning shaft.

You are correct and it is quite cold here as well. Some of that boost will be lost when the temperature returns to normal, but enough will still be there that the problem will remain the same.