Is it worth refurbing my turbo?

[vi11ain]

I've recently removed the turbo from my SE and ported the wastegate. As far as I know, there's nothing wrong with it at the moment, but it just struck me that it might be worth reconditioning it with new bearings etc, while I've got it out of the car, as getting all that lot out is a bit of a pain, to be honest.

The car (and hence the turbo) has done 75,000 miles....

If not a replacement of bearings, is it worth taking the compressor cover off and give everything a good clean up?

Any advice welcome!

Ben

[muley]

Ben

To get the bearings out is a bit challenging in that you have to retain the balance of the shaft.

If there's no play and there's been no sign of an oil leak - I'll leave well alone.

In my case the turbo is knackered and needs a recore ...

Jim

p.s. I love this bit of your post "getting all that lot out is a bit of a pain"

[Paul.P]

Ben, the original turbo's rarely give any trouble, as long as services are done at proper intervals. I do know of numerous ones that have done over 200k without any probs, so as long as yours has been looked after you shouldn't have any probs !

[vi11ain]

Thanks for the reassuring words guys!

I decided to go for the easy bit and remove the compressor housing to take a closer look and clean up. One corner of one of the blades was bent upwards, but I was able to very carefully bend it back into shape with some needle nosed pliers. There are a few little nicks on the leading edges too, but nothing serious I think.

I read somewhere that the maximum radial play should be less than 0.022" (~0.55mm), which I think it is, although there is visible movement. I can't detect any axial play at all and it spins nice and freely.

Here's a pic of my compressor - what do you think? I'm inclined to seal it all back up again and let it get on with it - my car has always been regularly serviced and looked after.....

Ben

[Paul.P]

Ben, don't forget, when the turbo is in the car, the spindle is in oil, so out the car, there may appear to be a small amount of play.

[Monty]

Why not find out the cost off refurbing 1st and then decide from there

try
http://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/

http://www.turbotechnics.com/docs/index.htm

http://www.midlandturbo.com/

[esprit888]

Based solely on what i see in the pictures i would get it sent out and refurbished if you can. The nicks in two of the blades show 'something' has been through there, and that alone is enough to put the balance out (these little buggers spin very very very fast) On the 80's Detriots we carried out destruction testing on (2stroke V8's, turbocharged AND supercharged, then aftercooled) it was amazing how a small nick like yours could throw the balance out, and they were spinning a lot slower than yours does. As you say it was a pain to get out, so it makes sense, bending it back the way it 'looks' like it should be will affect the balance. I seem to recall the spin rate was under 100k/rpm, but not by a lot, in contrast some of the honda bikes have turbos spinning at over 200k/rpm, whoa!

Thanks for the reassuring words guys!

I decided to go for the easy bit and remove the compressor housing to take a closer look and clean up. One corner of one of the blades was bent upwards, but I was able to very carefully bend it back into shape with some needle nosed pliers. There are a few little nicks on the leading edges too, but nothing serious I think.

I read somewhere that the maximum radial play should be less than 0.022" (~0.55mm), which I think it is, although there is visible movement. I can't detect any axial play at all and it spins nice and freely.

Here's a pic of my compressor - what do you think? I'm inclined to seal it all back up again and let it get on with it - my car has always been regularly serviced and looked after.....

Ben

[esprit888]

Oops, forgot to mention that its easy enough to check the radial if you have a dial guage. Just screw and extension or machine screw into dial guage (long enough to reach the shaft through the oil drain hole) Grab both ends of the shaft and push down, set to zero and then holding both ends of the shaft pull up. The allowable readings given are of course dry. If the visible movement is from lifting one end only then its not correct, it has to be held level and lifted from both ends.

I read somewhere that the maximum radial play should be less than 0.022" (~0.55mm), which I think it is, although there is visible movement. I can't detect any axial play at all and it spins nice and freely.


Ben

[GeoffSmith]

Based solely on what i see in the pictures i would get it sent out and refurbished if you can. The nicks in two of the blades show 'something' has been through there, and that alone is enough to put the balance out (these little buggers spin very very very fast) On the 80's Detriots we carried out destruction testing on (2stroke V8's, turbocharged AND supercharged, then aftercooled) it was amazing how a small nick like yours could throw the balance out, and they were spinning a lot slower than yours does. As you say it was a pain to get out, so it makes sense, bending it back the way it 'looks' like it should be will affect the balance. I seem to recall the spin rate was under 100k/rpm, but not by a lot, in contrast some of the honda bikes have turbos spinning at over 200k/rpm, whoa!

Bird strike?! I would imagine with that amount of imbalance the life of the bearings would be seriously shortened - it would be worth seeing if a specialist turbo place would give an opinion based on the photo.

[dapinky]

And when you find someone who can balance the shaft - please let me know the timescale/cost, as i'm still contemplating swapping my bearings for ones which don't whistle at me

[vi11ain]

Ok, ok. Advice taken on board! I've decided to continue taking the wretched thing apart - I just can't face the prospect of it going pop just as I get to the Stelvio Pass in June as a result of me passing up this opportunity to refurb it!

So, have any of you got any good tips on how to separate the center bearing section from the turbine housing? I've undone the four bolts (one still in there, because there's not room to take it out!), heated the housing and tried tapping with a copper mallet, but I'm scared of cracking something......

Typically, one of the nuts holding the turbo to the exhaust manifold is proving "challenging" to move too - the least accessible one, naturally!

I'm hoping that Turbo Developments in Brentford are open tomorrow.....if I can get away with them just balancing the rotating parts, then I'll fit the new bearings and reassemble.

Ben

[vi11ain]

I just called Turbo Developments , who are fairly local to me. The guy who answered the call said that he could offer a rebuild on the whole turbo for £180 +VAT, which would give me an as-new turbo with none of the grief of taking it apart etc.

For that sort of money (especially considering the £70 I just spent on gaskets alone for this wastegate porting project), I think it's a no-brainer. I thought it was going to cost something like £600!

To make things even easier, they're open late in the evening, so I should be able to make it over there after work.

I am going to miss the interesting part of having my turbo all in pieces though....

Thanks again for the advice.

Ben

[max and andy]

To diagnose lack of boost pressure. To remove turbo waste gate flange. To clean and lubricate vaste flange. To remove actuator test and refit . Drilling and tapping . Various nuts and bolts . Labour x 4 hours. £423 inc VAT. Wish id of known a recon was that cheep. Andy

[Monty]

Thats why i said to get prices as i had an idea it`ll be less than £200 and some members think a 2nd hand turbo is worth over £400 .

The only other question i would ask does that price include a new compressor wheel?

[muley]

I just called Turbo Developments , who are fairly local to me. The guy who answered the call said that he could offer a rebuild on the whole turbo for £180 +VAT, which would give me an as-new turbo with none of the grief of taking it apart etc.

For that sort of money (especially considering the £70 I just spent on gaskets alone for this wastegate porting project), I think it's a no-brainer. I thought it was going to cost something like £600!

To make things even easier, they're open late in the evening, so I should be able to make it over there after work.

I am going to miss the interesting part of having my turbo all in pieces though....

Thanks again for the advice.

Ben

Ben

Good find - I think I'll take both mine down there next week.

It's not far from me, either


Jim

[vi11ain]

The only other question i would ask does that price include a new compressor wheel?

A very valid point, I did mention that there were nicks in the compressor before he mentioned the price though. In any case, if they charge £100 for a new compressor (way OTT IMO), then it's still a decent price for a refreshed turbo.

Ben

[GeoffSmith]

What would worry me is what caused the damage as it should be clean air downstream of the filter, whereas some big lumps have obvoiusly been injested. Is there any way you could have got crap in from outside or is something coming apart in the plumbing?

[dapinky]

It's not far from me, either

Distance doesn't really matter when their website states that they offer free collection & delivery

[vi11ain]

What would worry me is what caused the damage as it should be clean air downstream of the filter, whereas some big lumps have obvoiusly been injested. Is there any way you could have got crap in from outside or is something coming apart in the plumbing?

Well, I've checked ou the upstream plumbing and the air filter box and it all looks fine, so I can only presume that it's the result of dirt that's got into there earlier in its life. I've had the car for 10 years now and I've certainly never run the car without a filter or left anything in there...

Bear in mind that the photo there is quite a bit larger than real life (unless you've got a minute computer screen!), but ultimately I have no idea what a "normal" compressor wheel would be expected to look like after 75,000 miles and 19 years of use. Just about every write up I've seen suggests that some nicks and pitting is quite normal. Does anyone else have a comparable photo of their compressor wheel?

The only other point I can make is that the turbo was working perfectly and making no funny noises etc prior to removal - in fact it was easily producing 1 bar boost as the point of removing it was to port the wastegate to eliminate boost creep after installing a Peco 2 1/4" exhaust.

So calling all you turbo experts (and amateurs) out there with a camera - please post your compressor wheel photos, failed or otherwise, for the sake of comparison!

Ben

[Paul.P]

The only other point I can make is that the turbo was working perfectly and making no funny noises etc prior to removal - in fact it was easily producing 1 bar boost as the point of removing it was to port the wastegate to eliminate boost creep after installing a Peco 2 1/4" exhaust.

Ben

Think you've said it all there Ben, to be honest, if you can afford it, & intend to keep the car a long time, its probably worth having the turbo done as an investment, but i personally ( at that mileage ) wouldn't bother, especially as it hasn't been giving any probs.