Yella Fella

[nitroman]

Matt - are you using the new Wilwood setup from Bob with the dust seals? Or the previous BrianMDB setup?

The Brian MG-TC MGB-GT setup.

[nitroman]

Well fluck-a duck. My Giot's Brake Fluid Extractor stopped drawing a vacuum. The handle has to be forced to move up & down. You can do it but its against tremendous force. Has anyone with this (Doug, Ekapol, and ?) had theirs stop working? I had actually completed bleeding both calipers & was going to bleed each again as I always do with brakes, when it stopped "sucking".

The brake pedal is more firm & moves a far shorter distance than the white car (it should as the yellow car uses a caliper with smaller pistons), but not being able to bleed the calipers normally*, thoroughly really bothers me. Subject cross to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=9258&p=109472&hilit=Fluid+AND+Extractor#p109472

* = my usual way

Now the machine works again, go figure. Perhaps it is because I brought it inside overnight (it got to freezing last night). I'll probably bleed the brakes again in a couple of weeks, just to be sure they're top notch.

[lotos]

Wow - your setup really looks great. Better than new, that's for certain. Did you ever finish up the engine bay additions?

[nitroman]

Wow - your setup really looks great. Better than new, that's for certain. Did you ever finish up the engine bay additions?

I've not started that. The final parts I need arrive Wednesday, but in truth, that job is going to be really hard on my back. I am scheduled for surgery March 18th, so I would have to complete the job prior to surgery or wait some time afterwards before doing it. I'm going to call & request a Medrol dose pack, which are anti-inflammatories, as they should allow me to get the job done.

[Doug]

Matt, you can't be hunched over in the engine bay for like--ever--after surgery . . .

[nitroman]

Matt, you can't be hunched over in the engine bay for like--ever--after surgery . . .

Well then I changed my operation to the 25th! I do have an overhead creeper, it just takes discipline to constantly use.

Everything is adjusted & the brakes work great. I would route the hose pointed up instead of down if I was doing another install immediately. However they are also routed down on my other Elan & the one before that as well, without any problems.

These calipers do require a notable amount of additional force than the 6816s, but I can tell it is something easily adjusted to. The force is closer to stock brakes, except these actually BITE when you up the pedal effort. To whomever installed the 6806s and thought "I paid all this money for this?", I think the 6811 calipers are the way to go. The pedal travel seems far less than even the stock brakes, but I know this is due to having a fresh bleed. Comparing apples to apples though, these have an extremely short pedal movement compared to the large 6816 calipers. I am very happy with my choice.

[nitroman]

So far, so good on my disc/rotor protective coating! It's a nice smooth circle now.

I am now convinced that the decreased brake pedal movement is due to the caliper not requiring as much fluid to move the pistons. The pedal's movement is nearly nonexistant! The explanation has to lie in the fact that we are not dealing with the square of the piston(s) size, but the cube of them.

Going back to the chart on this post viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13306&p=174173&hilit=6811#p174173, reflects the piston-size squared.

I don't remember the piston sizes anymore, but take this as the example:
3" pistons x 2-piston calipers:
4 pistons total (four cylindrical columns of brake fluid)
3(cubed) = 27x4 = 108 cubic inches
VS
1.5" pistons x 4-piston calipers:
8 pistons total (eight cylindrical columns of brake fluid)
1.5(cubed) = 3.375x8 = only 27 cubic inches
Even doubling this to assume these pistons travel as far as the OE caliper pistons, you'd still only have 54 cubic inches, which is 50% the requirement of the original(s).

PS - Don't go hoffing at me about single-piston calipers. For these calculations a sliding caliper equals a 2-piston caliper as the single piston must travel twice as far.

[bobbrown]

So far, so good on my caliper protective coating! It's a nice smooth circle now.

I am now convinced that the decreased brake pedal movement is due to the caliper not requiring as much fluid to move the pistons. The pedal's movement is nearly nonexistant! The explanation has to lie in the fact that we are not dealing with the square of the piston(s) size, but the cube of them.

Going back to the chart on this post viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13306&p=174173&hilit=6811#p174173, reflects the piston-size squared.

I don't remember the piston sizes anymore, but take this as the example:
3" pistons x 2-piston calipers:
4 pistons total (four cylindrical columns of brake fluid)
3(cubed) = 27x4 = 108 cubic inches
VS
1.5" pistons x 4-piston calipers:
8 pistons total (eight cylindrical columns of brake fluid)
1.5(cubed) = 3.375x8 = only 27 cubic inches
Even doubling this to assume these pistons travel as far as the OE caliper pistons, you'd still only have 54 cubic inches, which is 50% the requirement of the original(s).

PS - Don't go hoffing at me about single-piston calipers. For these calculations a sliding caliper equals a 2-piston caliper as the single piston must travel twice as far.

All looks very nice
One small point the bolts, caliper bracket to hub carrier are only 8.8 tensile and you have used what looks like button head on the hat to rotor fixings neither of which is as strong as the ones specified and I hope the latter are not stainless as they are usually less again unless you use A286 stainless steel.

There is no cubes involved in volume calculations it is

cylind1.gif (951 Bytes) Viewed 9200 times

Bob

[nitroman]

So far, so good on my caliper protective coating! It's a nice smooth circle now.

I am now convinced that the decreased brake pedal movement is due to the caliper not requiring as much fluid to move the pistons. The pedal's movement is nearly nonexistant! The explanation has to lie in the fact that we are not dealing with the square of the piston(s) size, but the cube of them.

Going back to the chart on this post viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13306&p=174173&hilit=6811#p174173, reflects the piston-size squared.

I don't remember the piston sizes anymore, but take this as the example:
3" pistons x 2-piston calipers:
4 pistons total (four cylindrical columns of brake fluid)
3(cubed) = 27x4 = 108 cubic inches
VS
1.5" pistons x 4-piston calipers:
8 pistons total (eight cylindrical columns of brake fluid)
1.5(cubed) = 3.375x8 = only 27 cubic inches
Even doubling this to assume these pistons travel as far as the OE caliper pistons, you'd still only have 54 cubic inches, which is 50% the requirement of the original(s).

PS - Don't go hoffing at me about single-piston calipers. For these calculations a sliding caliper equals a 2-piston caliper as the single piston must travel twice as far.

All looks very nice
One small point the bolts, caliper bracket to hub carrier are only 8.8 tensile and you have used what looks like button head on the hat to rotor fixings neither of which is as strong as the ones specified and I hope the latter are not stainless as they are usually less again unless you use A286 stainless steel.

There is no cubes involved in volume calculations it is

cylind1.gif

Bob

Height. That's another variable we have naught numbers for! In practise though, it looks as if that theorum will bring sound math to our quaint endeavor. Its always a magical moment when the facts of your actions receive the blessings of science!

[bobbrown]

For height read distance traveled by the piston as there has to be a clearance, all be it small between the pads and the rotors. so the amount of fluid that the master cylinder needs to displace assuming the clearances remain the same goes up as the piston size increases by the square of the piston size.

Bob

[nitroman]

So far, so good on my disc/rotor protective coating! It's a nice smooth circle now.

BTW, at high speed the brake pedal really shuddered as it struck the undulating (ragged circle) of my painted-on protective coating. Everything became silking-smooth though once the pads had worn off the portion of the coating inside the swept area. No big deal, but if you attempt the same expect to have to deal with this for an hour or so.

[nitroman]

Beyond the mechanical difference the Wilwoods provide they are also an eye-catching addition to a sports car, and in my case are color coordinated even better than the red-Wilwoods are on my white car. It is a pleasure noticing them each time I approach the car. To a bystander I imagine it drives home the point that the car (a Lotus) is all the more special. I would beseech anyone to add color-coordinated LOTUS vinyl transfers to their calipers to achieve an OEM look.

[nitroman]

As the final bit of proof that these are truly sports car brakes, I drove a woman's Hyundai yesterday and actually pulled off the road to check her fluid-level, etc., as it just felt like her brakes were going all the way to the floor. They weren't, and everything was normal; but it sure didn't feel that way to my feet.

Me likee pedal not move.

[nitroman]

Installed the Cibie low beams. Notice that I left the brackets in place & removed the pods by removing the 2 pivot screws. You save a LOT of time and frustration by doing it this way. There is no
POST-job adjusting to be done either.

[nitroman]

The mysterious backside view.

[nitroman]

Notice the trim-ring on the left is painted with a Zinc "galvanic" coating. I've become a sucker for plating (wih a spray can) zinc coatings on LOTS of parts. They are high-heat resistant, even on exhaust parts, and STOP rust even on parts (like screws) which are not coated, but which are in direct or EVEN INDIRECT metallic contact with the zinc. Amazingly, zinc oxidizes so strongly that it will even chemically reduce Fe2+ to Fe. That's right, it removes rust!

Zinc provides the strongest example of cathodic protection, where zinc is the anode, iron is the cathode, and ionized water (rainwater or even high humidity) is the electrolyte. Water provides the electrical contact medium which brings the zinc into electrical contact with other metals even a reasonable distance away. In this way, zinc becomes a sacrificial anode which keeps your other metal parts from oxidizing. If you like to polish/clean things once and have them stay nice, this becomes an extremely sensible thing to do.

Even bridges, pipelines & outside storage tanks run an insulated wire to a magnesium stake to cut down on corrosion and increase the lifespan of the structure.

[tigerdog]

Very well done! Two questions: how do you like the low-beams? And don't your high-beams feel incredibly wimpy now?

[max and andy]

Have you got a full photo of the engine bay it looks very clean. Max

[lotos]

Have you got a full photo of the engine bay it looks very clean. Max

I'm patiently waiting, too, Andy. He's got a bunch of delicious goodies going into that bay that I want to check out!

[Doug]

Matt will post no picture before it's time!

A-n-t-i-c-i-p-a-t-i-o-n . . . .



(he's still installing the hood scoop, lambo doors, and fat can exhaust pipe)