major water leak...all of a sudden!

[jankushka]

hi.
haven't been around for a long time.
i'm the owner of s2 #399 (there used to be an owners' list, which seems to have been lost).
my s2 has never leaked water.
now, all of a sudden, i find bucketfuls of water behind both seats, when it rains.
it's got to be something macroscopic, as it really is a lot of water.
it does it both when it is parked and when it is moving.
if i get the seat belts out completely, at some point they seem to be wet.
which might not mean anything, since they obviously are rolled up on the floor, where the water is.
so i don't know if this is an indication of the water leaking into the b post (?) or a mere consequence.
desperate!
any help welcome!
cheers,
giancarlo

background:
a few months ago i had the car transported to the dealer for a problem with the immobilizer.
it broke and i couldn't start the engine anymore.
i got it bypassed, now (so: no more alarm, immobilizer, central locking).
could it be that getting the car on/off the emergency truck have screwed the roof alignment?
or caused some other major issue?
this is the only event (i can think of) that might have caused this leakage.

ps:
i'm printing the "addendum 1 - water ingress - areas of attention" section of the manuals...

[Paul.P]

If you look behind you when sat in the car, can you see any gaps between the hood seal & the hood flap ?, Inspect the door & glass seals closely to see if theres water getting in anywhere ?, also what about the hood stowage lid seal, thats a likely candidate ?

[max and andy]

Try tricks and tips .

[Specky]

If the car gets wet when stationary...

It's normally the outer window to door seal... the water runs down the window... into the door...out of the door drains on to the sill... runs backward into the car...

If the seat gets wet... it the hood seals... (intermediate or the one behind)

If it gets wet when driving..

Any of the above...

Including there's several bulk head gromets

There's a Seal/Gromet in the rear of the tub just where you mention...

The window is out of alignment and produces a gap at the top of the A post seal...

How to prevent the leak

If possible park the car down hill... sounds stupid,but it works

Shower cap/car cover

You can try and rectify the potential leak site, but the chances are... it'll still leak somewhere else, (Most of the rubber is 20+ year old even on th S2s)

TTFN

[L.G.]

The door sills get quite wet after washing my car. I don't know how that water would go into the car but if you can't see any seals leaking you could check the sills.

And by the owner's list if you mean Gazza's S2 database it's still here in General section.

L.G.

[GeoffSmith]

S2 database thread and temporary register website.The only data we have is that #399 is a LHD LRG with 53000 miles so Gazza would love to hear from you.

[jankushka]

thanks everyone.

it definitely leaks when stationary.
apparently less so when driving.

water is *only* in the two shallow wells behind the seats.
the seats themselves don't get wet.
and there's no water whatsoever in neither the driver's nor the passenger's foot wells.

i checked the trims and carpets last time it happened.
i'd swear it starts to get wet in the bottom corners, at the base of the b posts.

the funny thing is that it does it on both sides.
and also, it went from "never had a problem with water before" to "swash...swash...swash" all of a sudden.

i'll start by getting all the trimming behind the seats out of the way.
at the cost of sitting in my car under a waterfall, i want to see where the heck the water drips in from.

and will try to park it downhill when it rains, to see if things get any better (or any worse).

@Specky
could you guide me to those seal/gromets you're talking about?

cheers

ps:
i contacted Gazza about the s2 database thing.

[Specky]

The Gromet I suspect is located behind the seat... Two recesses... Out board recess...in the of the middle of the recess should be a gromet...(Remember no two Elans are the same)

The other Recess may be drilled with a very small hole...

Look under the car, save ripping your carpet out etc...

Rectifying this may not sort your leak thou...

TTFN

[GeoffSmith]

Figure 13s.jpg

[jankushka]

@GeoffSmith
don't have permission to see the picture you posted...

EDIT:
alright.
now i do.
thanks.

[jankushka]

The Gromet I suspect is located behind the seat...
Two recesses...
Out board recess...in the of the middle of the recess should be a gromet...
(Remember no two Elans are the same)

The other Recess may be drilled with a very small hole...

Look under the car, save ripping your carpet out etc...

Rectifying this may not sort your leak thou...

TTFN

checked the two gromets in the recesses behind the seats.
they seem to be firmly in place.
one down.

[jankushka]

If the car gets wet when stationary...
It's normally the outer window to door seal...
the water runs down the window...
into the door...
out of the door drains on to the sill...
runs backward into the car...

How to prevent the leak

If possible park the car down hill...
sounds stupid,but it works
TTFN

i don't live in swindon town, so i can't park it down eastcott hill or drove road, but...

that is exactly what seems to be happening.
it's been raining for 36 hours now.
i parked the car (even though only very slightly) downhill.
and the car's still dry.

so, first of all: thanks very much.
it's a big relieve for me!

now, then: is there a way to fix this?

[Specky]

When you find it... let me know...

I do have a plan thou, but I'll have to modify the drain holes on the doors...

TTFN

[saska]

If the car gets wet when stationary...
It's normally the outer window to door seal...
the water runs down the window...
into the door...
out of the door drains on to the sill...
runs backward into the car...

now, then: is there a way to fix this?

Suggest you have a look at the following WikiLec article:
Door Glass Weatherstrips

Click on Gordon Twist's write up
Best wishes,

[jankushka]

Suggest you have a look at the following WikiLec article:
Door Glass Weatherstrips

Click on Gordon Twist's write up
Best wishes,

thanks.

unfortunately, after more rain (a lot more rain) the car is now soaking wet outside and in...

parking the car downhill works for a limited amount of rain and a limited time only.
after some more accurate "debugging" the actual problem is not in those outer window to door seals.
rather, the water leaks in from the top most corner of the window, runs down the window edge along the hood to window seal (on the inside)
then straight down the door and eventually down the carpet and onto the floor.

the seals themselves are alright.
i don't see anything wrong with them.

it should be simple enough to prevent water from leaking from there, when the car's stationary.
i don't see any solution while driving, though (do you?).

for a start i guess i need a rain cap.
my lotus parts supplier (steve@sjsportscars) doesn't seem to be selling anything of the sort.
know where i can get one?

cheers

[John_W]

Jan,
The solution to your leak is probably to add extra foam seal (or silicon sealant) to the top of the windscreen to prevent water getting in past the header seal and dripping down at the A-pillar. This is a better solution than the "drain tube" method (mentioned in the Service Notes) in my opinion, as it treats the cause (water getting past the seal, not the effect (water dripping onto your knees).

For information, see this thread, and this manual.

In the manual, look for "Section BK Addendum 1 - Water Ingress; areas of attention". Scroll down to section BK, click on "overview", then scroll about 2/3 of the way down all the page thumbnails until you find Addendum 1 on page 55 (it has a drawing of the LH door aperture), click on the thumbnail and there you go.

For reference you may also want to see this thread, but it doesn't sound like your problem.

For a showercape, contact WillB who is the UK agent.

John

[jankushka]

thanks john.

The solution to your leak is probably to add extra foam seal (or silicon sealant) to the top of the windscreen to prevent water getting in past the header seal and dripping down at the A-pillar...

it's at the back.
not at the front.
it is now very evident when driving.
the air flow pushes the water at the back of the window.
at the top corner it leaks in.
when stationary, it leaks in when it rains a lot and the hood starts dripping.

i will take some pictures and post them if/when i have some time.

For a showercape, contact WillB who is the UK agent.

thanks very much for this.
i found one at a local diy shop today, but it's pvc and is not ideal (it should do as an emergency solution, though)
i will have to look for another one of some different material.

and i will have to have a look at those manuals.
cheers

[jankushka]

dave.
here's some pictures.

notice how big a gap there is between the window and the mirror seal.

PassengerSide.MirrorSeal.01.jpg

looking at this i already found out that one of those plastic sliding things is missing at the top front of the window.
that looks obvious now.

PassengerSide.WindowFrontGuide.01.jpg

[Specky]

Hi there,

First thing I've left my camera @ work... , but at first impressions:-

The window glass is not going high enough...The front white nylon carrier on the front rail should be slightly proud IIRC

I'd look at the butterfly to start with.. It may have popped..

Also I'd check lift assy over

Clicky

Then the carriers

TTFN

[jankushka]

hi dave.
thanks a lot for your help.
the carrier in the front rail of the passenger's window is obviously missing.
i will strip the doors tomorrow.
it should be easy enough to check the butterfly thing.
i will then try to get both of the windows out to check carriers and everything.
i don't think i will fully understand all the instructions until i break something in there...
will see.
cheers.