Mods and Insurance - Mountain Chip

[forbes82]

How much in general does a mod such as a mountain chip increase insurance? Although i am tempted by the extra power if it will rocket my insurance it might have to wait a year or so. Although i have a good few years no claims i am only 22, so my insurance is currently £800 FC.

Also, what about people who purchase cars with mods but are unaware of them? One of the first elans i looked at boosted to about .9 and felt very quick, but the owner said the only mods he was aware of was the S/S exhaust (when now i research here its obvious it must have had a chip), if i had bought and insured this car and had an accident where would i stand? Uncovered? Unlikely it would be picked up on?

I certainly don't wish to be on an insurance policy that won't pay up if things go wrong, just wondering if a new chip is something that will drive the price sky high or not.

I know i could just phone my insurer and ask, but after just doing the frustrating phone every insurer to get a quote thing recently i thought asking on here to get a rough idea might be a bit less of a headache!

Cheers.

[Alan_C]

How much you tell your insurance company depends on what you consider is a modification or an accessory. Accessories you probably don't need to inform them about. And you need to consider your conscience. Once you start to tell them things like it's been "chipped" they'll often refuse to cover you anymore and you will need to go to a specialist insurance company that understands what this is about. A "chip" is something that an insurance investigator likely wouldn't know about anyway, would they know what a standard ECU component should look like, and would they go to the bother of opening the ECU to check? Another example is wheels, if you bought an aftermarket set, you should inform the insurance co, but would you do so if you fitted an OEM set after purchase, still a modification but also an accessory fit that could have been supplied by the manufacturer. And not knowing that a part has been modified by a previous owner is something that you can claim in all faith you didn't know about, so to the best of your knowledge it wasn't modified. Don't forget that all calls to insurance companies are likely to be recorded and comments logged on your file, so be careful what you say. It is all a minefield and some very grey areas. I'm not advocating lying to your insurance company, but I have never had any investigation on my cars when making a claim, though I'm sure they must do if they get suspicious. Non of my cars have deviated much from standard, in looks anyway, so shouldn't attract insurance attention. Others may say you must inform every tiny detail, do that and you'll not afford insurance, if you even get offered it! Mind how you go!

[dapinky]

Here I am again, with a tale of doom ............

Firstly, let me state that I do not have any collusion with any insurance companies/brokers, other than in my own professional capacity (including Fraud, and, in a previous position, as a vehicle examiner for serious RTA's).

Secondly, i would always advocate total honesty in this venture - I pay no more for either car, with mods declared......

The blue one is on an agreed value, limited mileage, 'classic' policy and has modified exhaust, chip, roll bars. (KGM insurance through Adrian Flux)

The red one is on a standard policy (fully comp with M & S) - declared chip, exhaust, suspension, brakes, roll bars, interior.

Both cars for myself and Angie - SDP, commuting and business, kept on an open driveway, with Cat 1 alarms. It may help that we are both old (but not as old as Geoff, or looking as old as Dico ).

Paul Watkins also pays the same with mods declared as he did without (or he did last year!).


Okay, onto the bit no-one ever wants to hear or think about......

... Come the glorious day that your car gets nicked, the insurance company may use the excuse that all mods were not declared to refuse to pay out, or to reduce their liability.......obviously this only comes to light if the car is recovered, not if it is a total loss, but you will only get a 'book' settlement price. You can't really argue, otherwise they will tell you to sod off and seek legal advice - and I've yet to meet a 'no win - no fee' lawyer who would want to argue your case.

....next we have the even worse case scenario - what if your car is involved in a collision (not necessarily your fault) - the insurance company will have the vehicle inspected, and any mods MAY be noticed - there is a stock argument for 'improvements' to service items being okay without being declared (suspension components, brake components etc), as long as it doesn't compromise the safety or likelihood for theft of the vehicle.....

...after all, consider a bog standard Fiesta, Corsa, Saxo, 106 etc - if you take off the badges, tint the windows, fit big wheels, and drop the suspension a bit and don't tell your insurer that it is anything other than a 1.0 petrol, what happens when Jonny Druggie needs a fix - he'll take yours thinking that it is a Ghia Sport GSi and worth a few quid to Billy The Fence - he'll be a bit pissed off when he realises it has vinyl seats and a small engine, can't outrun a battenburg patterned Diesel Focus, and handles like a sponge cake - so goes to the local housing estate and makes a bonfire. (that is why insurers load the premium on a basic model with 'modifications' which may only be seen as 'accessories').

....even worse case, if involved in a serious collision (life changing or life threatening injuries as well as fatal), it will be examined by the insurers (who want to pay out less cash to injured people - after all, a bent car is worth a few grand - even if you write off a Veyron in doing so, it is "only" a million or so - but a life-changing disability could cost a heck off a lot more, so even a 1% shift in blame will save them a fortune)......

...it will also get looked at by VOSA examiners, and Old Bill - and I can assure you that 'modifications' WILL be found (maybe not all, maybe not every time, but they will be found more often than not).......

.....The insurers will still pay out to the injured party, but you get bu66er all - plus you get sued for everything you own - plus you get prosecuted for Fraud......

....and I've yet to meet anyone who has won a counter claim


Bottom line is that no-one goes out in the morning intending to have a crash, or have the car stolen - but they happen.

Also, what if VOSA/Police are doing 'spot checks' on the roadside - there is invariably a direct line (no pun intended) to the MIB and individual companies - anyone found with modifications is reported to the companies who invariably cancel the policy and have no legal requirement to refund the costs - and if you are on a 'monthly payment scheme' you still have to keep up the payments after it's been canceled as it is a legally binding credit agreement


It's your choice - I don't risk it, but if you chose to do so, I can't stop you. (or maybe I can )

[Rambo]

I've just declared my only mods. - a PECO SS exhaust and an Everest chip - to my insurance company. I haven't heard anything from them in a week or so and therefore assume it's OK and to their satisfaction. If not, and I get a hike in premium for this or other admin. charges, I'll post the details here.

[bobbrown]

As dapinky has stated it is not worth the risk, if you are going to get an increase in the cost of insurance then you have to take this addition cost if any into account when doing any modifications, after all its only a phone call to ask before you do it. Mines on a cherished car policy with Adrian Flux limited miles a year and none of my modifications to date have increased the cost. I would not like to be put in the position of losing the car for what ever reason and not being able to replace it, as these things do happen, bit of ice, diesel on the road, idiot on the road (lots of those about) and the twoc brigade to name but a few.
Also I suppose if the police wanted to they can have your car towed away for not having valid insurance if it was proven you had not declared a modification and invalidated your insurance.

Bob

[forbes82]

OK guys cheers, glad to hear that in general it doesn't seem to be changing your prices much, i guess i'll ring my insurer and find out for sure before making any changes. I love my elan too much to risk it not being covered!

[RayD]

I pay no more for either car, with mods declared......

Good posting as usual Dave,

I don’t need a chip but for other peoples benefit ... how do you describe the modification to an insurance company in such a way for them not to increase the premium?

Ray

[Rambo]

Interesting one that Ray. I asked Dave Pink, there's only on f in Geof Smith and Paul Watkins for advice on that a few months ago. All gave very helpful replies (what else from LEC ) and from memory PW described it as an "enhanced boost control chip"

[dapinky]

I just told them that it was like a 'superchip', but with enhanced engine protection settings

[GeoffSmith]

I quoted a link to ESM's site to Adrian Flux but they charged me extra.

[John_W]

I think once insurance companies hear the word "chip" they don't need or want an explanation.

All that my insurers (ClassicLine) asked was whether or not the chip resulted in more than a 20% power increase. As it happens the Everest is almost exactly a 20% increase in power (165 to 200ish bhp), so I was happy to state a 20% increase. I have also ensured that they know about the Wilwood brakes, dump valve, Momo steering wheel, stainless steel exhaust (2.25" vs standard 2"), aftermarket wheels and radio/CD player replacing the original.

None of this made any difference to the initial quote, but then I'm ancient and live in the middle of a moor in Scotland. Were I 24 and living in a city I suspect it might be different.

John

[ashm]

I'm 28 and insured with Adrian Flux, unlimited mileage for personal and full business use.
When I got the car early this year I told them I had no idea if it was modified, but that it was very possible since many Elans have been tweaked over the years. I did say that it appeared to be stock and it didn't seem to perform above stock spec. I then told them I had every intention to modify it ASAP in several ways, mainly to improve safety and fuel economy. I specifically mentioned an extensive brake upgrade (thanks Bob!) and a closed loop conversion which would improve fuel economy, emissions and power.

The annual premium with a low excess was £517.75, a fantastic price in my opinion.

Adam

[Upset99]

I feel sorry for you guys.. You can move to the USA? We dont have these silly rules.

[tigerdog]

Don't be too sure about the "silly rules" in the US. If you read most policies, you'll find they cover only the car in its stock condition. Any mods, even aftermarket wheels, might not be covered unless you explicitly state them when purchasing the policy. Performance mods will definitely cause a double-take. Insuring the Elan as a collector vehicle limits mileage but most companies will insure the modifications up to an "agreed value" maximum. In other words, our rules are probably just as silly but US consumers (and many insurance salespeople) are far less educated.