TheBard's daily drive

[Ekapol]

Glad to hear you are enjoying your Elan Ian.

[TheBard]

Been a bad few weeks for the Elan. The snow storms that battered the north eastern US has kept the car wrapped up in covers in my parking space for many days, and on one recent drive out I managed to hit a substantial snow plough induced pothole. The resulting shakes had me at the garage in record time.

I've dented up both left wheels, we've been able to balance out much of the vibration but not all of it with wheel weights, and rotated the worst off wheels to the rear. The fun doesn't end there though, because while checking the suspension over for any other damage we've found the front springs and shocks are "worn" and the rears are "worn to the point of needing replacement". Well with 75,000 miles on the clock I'm not complaining too much, it is just the wallet doesn't need the stress

The good news is that I can look at this as an opportunity, I'll be upgrading wheels, tyres, spings and shocks all in one fell swoop, giving the Elan a new lease of life, and the local economy a boost too! After much talk with the mechanics about offset related issues we've got a plan to use a 42-45mm offset and balance the springs and shocks accordingly to reduce addition stress on the car.

So far I'm waiting for the garage to get back to me with shock and spring quotes, but for wheels I'm thinking:

O.Z. Allegerita HLT in either black or anthracite

Tyre-wise I'm undecided, got to go and read the threads on here before making a decision. I've been happy with the BF Goodrich G-Force Sports, but think a complete change may be in order maybe Continental Extreme Contact DWS...

I'll update with details and photos as the project progresses, unfortunately this means that yet again the respray is postponed, and the master-brake cylinder replacement is also delayed a little. Still hope to make it to LOG in the autumn though.

[tigerdog]

Replacement wheels are a sticky subject. The Elan's 60mm offset is not available in any off-the-shelf wheels today. Blair (Elanlover) had some wheels custom-made that look gorgeous and won't change the handling of the car. Check out this thread. Alternately, there are quite a few places that offer wheel straightening and refinishing. Google "Ye Olde Wheel Shop" in Elkridge, MD. I think they're pretty close to you - they've advertised in Autoweek for many years but I've had no personal interaction with them. Will definitely be cheaper than new custom-made wheels! For the suspension bits, your timing is perfect - Bob Brown's Nitron/Eibach kit is right up your alley! Bummer about the cause, but hooray for the justification of more fun projects!

[Elanlover]

Beat me to it!

Getting the custom wheels are certainly more expensive but I'm glad I did. JLine has lots of styles and colours to choose from.

[steve matthews]

Gentlemen pictures please.

[steve matthews]

Thebard. may I ask what springs?
What shocks?
Currently looking at SJ 20% heavier front springs =w= their adjustable damper.
Putting the old front springs on the rear and SJ rear adjustable dampers.
This is affordable and I hope will decrease roll when cornering without spending
$1,000.00 per corner on the Bilstein/Eibach project.
Your thought appreciated.
Steve

[Elanlover]

Thebard. may I ask what springs?
What shocks?
Currently looking at SJ 20% heavier front springs =w= their adjustable damper.
Putting the old front springs on the rear and SJ rear adjustable dampers.
This is affordable and I hope will decrease roll when cornering without spending
$1,000.00 per corner on the Bilstein/Eibach project.
Your thought appreciated.
Steve

You're not going to be able to put the front springs on the rear of the car. Completely different springs both in strength and length.

[bobbrown]

Worth noting that the SJ offering of 20% stiffer front springs is 20% stiffer than UK spec and I think you will find that this is very close to what is fitted to the Fed cars any way
As for front springs on the rear, this is a massive increase around 100% in the rear spring rates and do not think this will work that well.

[steve matthews]

Thank's Bob, I will do something $ not available for your specific upgrade.
I do understand it's validity.
I must reduce the roll on cornering in the federal elan.
The daily ride is perfect.
Running cones is another story.
Any opinions are welcome. Working with KnoxMotor Sport on the new Lady.
P.S. So many threads already on this subject but NO CONCRETE DATA.
Steve.
Decision never developed how 2 Federal cars side by side could be 1" different in
height from ground.
Thanks again Steve -w- new lady

[TheBard]

Hi Steve,

Soon as I get details from the garage I'll let you know. With the recent snow I've just wrapped the car up and dug it out every few days, but now things appear to be thawing I'll be pushing to move ahead with this fix sooner rather than later. Unfortunately the current group buy above is (for me at least) too pricey, the wrong side of the Atlantic, and not available soon enough to fix a car that is my daily driver (when there isn't 2ft of snow around).

Regarding the comments above about wheel options, I know many folks in the wheels and tyres thread have spoken of the mythical "20% won't make much difference" on the offset. I'm with the other camp that says any change is bad, however 20% allows for 48mm, and what I am looking at is 42mm... no where near. However, after much discussion with the mechanics at the garage they pointed out we will not be replacing the springs and shocks with OEM original parts (which would suffer more with the offset change), we'll be able to balance the change in load from the change in offset as part of the upgrade.

If money was no object and I was using the car primarily on track pushing the limits I'd be looking for custom 60mm offset wheels, but the car is never tracked and is used as a daily driver, so practicality, safety, and cost come before extreme performance handling.

Cheers,

Ian

[bobbrown]

Hi Steve,

However, after much discussion with the mechanics at the garage they pointed out we will not be replacing the springs and shocks with OEM original parts (which would suffer more with the offset change), we'll be able to balance the change in load from the change in offset as part of the upgrade.

Cheers,

Ian

Changing the dampers and springs will have no effect on the suspension geometry assuming the lengths and ride heights remain the same as stock but change the wheel offset and you will change the suspension geometry, in particular the scrub radius and the motion ratio as you are in effect extending the track width.
I do not know how your mechanic guys can say you can balance it out but if you go for 43mm offset then you are in effect moving the wheel out 17mm and increasing the track from 1486mm to 1520mm.

Bob

[TheBard]

Sorry for being confusing there Bob. My concern had been that by moving the wheel 17mm further out (changing the track as you described) would increase the leverage of the suspension arm, and therefore the load on the shock. The mechanic's comment was regarding balancing out that change by having a firmer setup to counteract the increased leverage. Hope that make sense, as always any comments will be helpful.

[bobbrown]

Sorry for being confusing there Bob. My concern had been that by moving the wheel 17mm further out (changing the track as you described) would increase the leverage of the suspension arm, and therefore the load on the shock. The mechanic's comment was regarding balancing out that change by having a firmer setup to counteract the increased leverage. Hope that make sense, as always any comments will be helpful.

Moving the wheel out does change the motion ratio but not by very much may be around 2 to 3% in this case which is only about 5 lbs/inch at the spring and not worth the time energy and effort to try to adjust.
The change in scrub radius is more significant how ever as you will go from -3mm to + 14mm so the chances are you will find you have more torque steer with a positive scrub radius than with a negative one on FWD cars. Never mind the additional loading that will be put on wheel bearings and wish bones. If you are happy with 43 mm offset then fine as it is down to the individual to make those choices but I just thought you should be aware of the issues that can arise.

Bob

[steve matthews]

Bob you rule.
What about the federal car?
Reduce the roll 20% how to.
Ian will watch to see your results.
Knox boys pay attention.
All comments welcome.
Steve

[bobbrown]

Firstly body roll is not all bad and some is desirable, it can be reduced but at the expense of comfort as these things are always linked and a compromise is always the rule you can not have your cake and eat it.
I would have expected Lotus to have set the car up for comfort and to make it feel ok for the vast majority of drivers, or at least that way when it was new. As we should all know dampers wear how much is dependant on the road surfaces and the speeds they are asked to operate in as high speeds generate more heat in the damper, and the frequency of the movement goes up as the speed climb, compress any fluid and it gets hot and age/mileage.
Over time you just get used to the gradual deterioration of the dampers as it is a slow process and in most cases they are changed when they leak not when they are worn as probably most are.
There are two ways to reduce body roll the primary one being the springs, increasing the rates will reduce body roll and the same is true if you increase the rates on the anti roll bars, the latter will NOT alter pitch or dive under acceleration or braking but the former will do both.
On the first Nitron setup which was a road setup the roll was reduced and the level of comfort was not that much different than standard but then again we did not go very far with spring rates up by about 22% all round. The track set up is going to me more aggressive and is likley to be in the order of 80% to 90% up on the road car spring rates. Before any one goes that’s too high let me say the LOT boys on Nitron’s are up over 200% compared to standard on the race setup.
It would be possible to do the same thing with the Protech dampers if they can be supplied with a different lower spring mount for say a race 2.5" spring and assuming they are capable of handling a higher rated spring. It would mean producing a new top mount to take the 2.5"/2.25 springs and on the rear due to the very low preload a tender spring is required. Cost would probably be not that bad as it is then using standard race springs and those are easy to source.
I have yet to complete the Fed setup for the Nitron kit but I am getting there but being this side of the pond and not having access to a FED car I am reliant on information from others.

[Specky]

IIRC there was only one fed in the UK...and Bob's suspension wouldn't be able to handle the weight of the car ...The engine was made of gold...

I think someone like Don took it away for export...Not to far away, but far enough.

TTFN

[TheBard]

This is a difficult post to write in many ways, but I've come to the conclusion that it is time for a change. I've decided to sell the Elan and move on to something new.

Now don't worry, this isn't related directly to the posts above, I've not crashed it, the shocks aren't leaking, and the car is still being driven every day on my 50 mile commute. If I'd got a garage, or an extra parking space I'd definitely keep the old girl as she is a blast to drive, but I've only one parking space and so any change requires I find a new owner. So I'll be adding my Red Fed to the US Sales list shortly, and if anyone is interested please send me a PM or email, I'm looking for a quick sale, or will be part-exchanging her shortly.

I'll definitely keep hanging around the forums, and want to thank everyone (those I've met, and those I haven't) for all their help and friendship.

Cheers,

Ian

[TheBard]

The deed is done, and I didn't even have time to post details in the For Sale US forum... Again thank you to everyone for all your support and guidance over the past 5 years, you all manage to turn Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious into Lots Of Threads Usually Sensible Okay, I'll get my coat

I'll be around, but I guess I better update the signature.

Drive Safe,

Ian/The Bard

[steve matthews]

Ian, take care.
For those who may be wondering, NO I did not buy Ian's #683.
Steve

[Monty]

Ian,

Sorry to hear you`ve sold your Elan but glad to hear your sticking around. But i bet it won`t be long when your back in another Elan lol