Probable HGF looks like is is actually coil pack failure

[Andy_J]

I think I may have HGF in my Red Elan. It is currently running like a bag of bolts, Idle is very rough and there is just no power at all

So far I have checked

-fuel pressure - seems to be OK.
-Injectors - all click when ignition on and thottle opened
-Oil - clean and at maximum
-Coolant - no exhaust gasses in coolant (i have a block test kit)
-Spark - seems solid at idle on all cylinders (visual check by pulling the plugs 1 by 1 and earthing to cam cover)

Pulling the plug leads off cylinders 2 & 3 seems to make no difference to the running
Pulling the injector leads off cylinders 2 & 3 seems to make no difference

Currently thinking that head has blown between cylinders 2 & 3 .

Before I book a compression test has anyone got any advice on more things to check

No engine check light, timing is spot on, CAS hall sensor is new (3 month old), no elan scan as I need a USB to serial adaptor that will not bugger up the ECU

Andy

[tonny006]

It sounds like the head gasket but i would do a compression test, and if that is good try another coil,you can change the coils over and see if it is the same on 1 & 4 cylinders.

[rip]

There are several things to look for if you suspect HGF.

Block test. A cheap & less reliable alternative is the sniffer test - remove the expansion cap & whiff your coolant. You should be able to smell fumes if they are present.
Milky deposits in your oil.
Oily deposits in your coolant.
Remove your plugs & shine a light at your piston heads. If you've got water leaiking into any of theem, these will look oily. They won't actually be oily: they'll be wet & sooty.

When my HG went, idling was rough but could be cleared with a short blip on the accelerator. Power was ok, but the exhaust contained a lot of steam at idle.

[Candles]

I'm not saying it isn't HGF, but I had my car exhibit your symptoms, and it was traced (eventually) a faulty ECU earth. Have you disturbed the area around the PAS fluid reservoir recently? There are numerous earth connectors that bolt to the plenum next to the PAS reservoir. There are also some on the coil pack base plate. With any of these off, the engine goes mental as it can't measure the sensors accurately.

I think it is worth a check, but unlikely as I seem to remember I couldn't setup the timing owing to the erratic running which you seem to be able to do. Also, mine would not communicate with ElanScan as I think the ECU was simply too disturbed with the wild measurements (not very scientific; ask ESM)!

[smilerbaker]

have you also ruled out cat collapse? just happened on mine and I lost all power

[GeoffSmith]

First suspect is coil packs if 2&3 have gone down - as Tony says, swap them over and see if the fault moves.

[Andy_J]

OK Just done a compression test and all cylinders are between 150 psi & 160 psi, possibly a little bit lower than I would want but with 156K on the clock it is good enough & I don't need to pull the head yet.

Smilerbaker wrote:
have you also ruled out cat collapse? just happened on mine and I lost all power

UK SE so no family pets

Candles wrote:
I'm not saying it isn't HGF, but I had my car exhibit your symptoms, and it was traced (eventually) a faulty ECU earth. Have you disturbed the area around the PAS fluid reservoir recently? There are numerous earth connectors that bolt to the plenum next to the PAS reservoir. There are also some on the coil pack base plate. With any of these off, the engine goes mental as it can't measure the sensors accurately.

Good point, I have just put a new alternator on as my last one went over volts, Had a good check and can't see anthing loose or hanging off

Rip wrote:
Block test. A cheap & less reliable alternative is the sniffer test - remove the expansion cap & whiff your coolant. You should be able to smell fumes if they are present.
Milky deposits in your oil.
Oily deposits in your coolant.
Remove your plugs & shine a light at your piston heads. If you've got water leaiking into any of theem, these will look oily. They won't actually be oily: they'll be wet & sooty.

Already done a block test which was negative for exhaust gasses, no oil or water mixing.

{b}Geoffsmith wrote:[/b]
First suspect is coil packs if 2&3 have gone down - as Tony says, swap them over and see if the fault moves.

Just going to check coils now, not easy to get at as I have the aircon pipes getting in the way

[Candles]

I suppose, as an outside chance, you should check the leads as well!

Also, I've had a sticking injector in the past. Now, it is unlikely that 2 have failed together, but a tap on the injector body with the handle of a 1/2" drive ratchet normally frees them. It might be worth a go.

Candles.

[Andy_J]

Just swapped over the coil packs and 1 & 4 are not running properly 2 & 3 seem fine now, so looks like it is at least coil pack related

[GeoffSmith]

**Takes bow**

Come on Candles, it's not rocket science!

[Candles]

Well done Geoff

Have you got spare coils? There's always the MSD option:

Thread

[tigerdog]

Congrats, Andy! If budget allows, replace both packs. When one fails, the other may not be long for this earth. There are plenty of aftermarket packs out there. Based on personal experience and many internet forum comments, I suggest avoiding the "Accel" brand. MSDs work well on my car even at higher than stock boost.

[Andy_J]

My local motor factors can get a coil for £45 each, will take a couple of days, but will have it for the weekend. Only going to replace the faulty on for now, once iI have it fitted and confirmed the problem is fixed I will look at replacing the other coil (which is not original, so someone has replace just one in the past).

Could always swipe one off the Carlton if I want to risk lifting the bonnet on that

[tonny006]

How come Geoff gets all the credit!
What about me?

[GeoffSmith]

How come Geoff gets all the credit!
What about me?

Private joke with Candles would have fallen flat coming from you Tony!

[tonny006]

How come Geoff gets all the credit!
What about me?

Private joke with Candles would have fallen flat coming from you Tony!

No problem Geoff,
As long as Andy got it sorted,it doesn't matter who suggested it
Are you making any more shift lights like Montys?
Oops sorry off topic.

[GeoffSmith]

Are you making any more shift lights like the Monkeys?

Yes, but not just yet.

Oops sorry off topic.

That's what we do best!

[rip]

OK Just done a compression test and all cylinders are between 150 psi & 160 psi, possibly a little bit lower than I would want but with 156K on the clock it is good enough & I don't need to pull the head yet.

For a turbocharged (& hence low compression) engine, that sounds healthy to me.
Bollecks, not I've gone a bit offtopic too

[Andy_J]

Fitted new coil pack today and problem is now sorted, thanks for all the suggestions