Thinking of buying, but some doubts...

[antelope]

Hi. I'm in urgent need of a nice 2nd car to drive, a convertible. Choosing ain't easy as the proof of the pudding is in the eating of course...but thus far, given my budget which would stretch to 10k for a great car but I'd much rather spend a lot less than that I'm looking at early 60's MGBs and Sunbeam Alpines [I like old classics], a particuler BBR turbocharged MX5, and M100s.

The M100 worries me though. Loads Of Trouble, Usually Serious they say....true for M100s? This reputation they have for leaking all the time sounds like a real drag, and I'm getting the feel that they're prone to head gasket troubles. Is this fair? And is the slightly less powerful S2 really so different to drive from the S1 [because the S2 have some nice colours..]? Can an S2 be chipped to negate that lower powered aspect?

I've driven two so far..one was a dog and t'other went like a missile, but was scruffy. I'm about to look at this one: http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1803768.htm [does anyone know it?]

I'd really appreciate if someone could reassure me about these cars..fessing up to the faults as well as the plusses. I'm OKish at doing my own work, but not experienced and I don't want, nor can afford, mechanical trouble. Or constant battles with water ingress for that matter.

The thing with the older classics is that they're so simple, even I can deal with mechanical issues, and so they're easy to look after and cheap, assuming that the bodywork is OK. And they don't neccesarily leak! The M100 is much more modern and therefore complicated. This should make it more reliable, but I'm not getting this impression...

Moral support much appreciated...

David

[Jackonicko]

Hi. I'm in urgent need of a nice 2nd car to drive, a convertible. Choosing ain't easy as the proof of the pudding is in the eating of course...but thus far, given my budget which would stretch to 10k for a great car but I'd much rather spend a lot less than that I'm looking at early 60's MGBs and Sunbeam Alpines [I like old classics], a particuler BBR turbocharged MX5, and M100s.

You can get a great Elan for way less than that. I bought a 37k mile SE for less than £6k earlier this summer.

The M100 worries me though. Loads Of Trouble, Usually Serious they say....true for M100s?

Not at all. My previous Elan had 109k on the clock when I bought it, and I put 23k on her in two years. She was reliable daily transport and took me to Paris and Berlin without a murmur.

I had only one 'show-stopper' when the 117k mile starter motor decided that 117k miles was enough.

This reputation they have for leaking all the time sounds like a real drag,

It's also over-stated and exaggerated. Mine leaks a lot when jet washed, but not in the rain. I haven't had 'constant battles'.

and I'm getting the feel that they're prone to head gasket troubles. Is this fair?

Not at all. You're thinking Elises and MGFs. The Elan is not gasket failure prone.

And is the slightly less powerful S2 really so different to drive from the S1 [because the S2 have some nice colours..]?

Some swear by the S2, personally I've never driven one that didn't feel a bit gutless compared to the SE, and they feel like an afterthought built as cheaply as possible to use up a supply of engines to me.....! Though to be fair, they do incorporate some real improvements too.

The real drawback is that there is still a price premium for the S2. For a given amount of money, you'll usually get a better SE.

Can an S2 be chipped to negate that lower powered aspect?

Yep.

I'd really appreciate if someone could reassure me about these cars..fessing up to the faults as well as the plusses.

I'd say:
Pluses: Great car, superb handling, far more practical to live with than an Elise or an MGF, far nicer to drive than a Mazda, surprising fuel economy even when you drive like a loon, sticks to the road like glue, puts a big, cancer-defeating, depression curing smile on your face. There is easy and cheap availability of most parts, and there is a large and vital community able to give great advice and support, and big enough to make 'group buys' of new and improved components. There are lots of specialists able to do the jobs that the home mechanic can't or doesn't want to, and actually, treating an Elan like a normal car and getting it serviced 'on interval', by a professional, is not cost-prohibitive.

Faults: Access to some parts can be very tight, physically. Tame monkeys or children can be useful assistants! The car is as leaky as any rag top. Rear wishbones have an alarming propensity to rust. Stock brakes are terrible and need replacing. Accident damage is expensive to repair. Buy a good one (not necessarily an expensive one!) and keep it maintained and you'll have a cheap, dependable, reliable sports car with real performance. Buy a bad one and you could find yourself with an unreliable money pit.

Older classics like the MGB are FAR simpler to work on, but having owned several of those, I can tell you that they are no more reliable (quite the reverse) and that the constant battle against rust is a depressing and unwinnable heart sink. They don't leak any less than an Elan, and in my experience eat money faster. And they're nothing like as good to drive.

[Jackonicko]

You'd be well advised to post up exactly where you're located. You're bound to be near to one of the gang, and someone will almost certainly be able to help you out.

[texas2201]

Hi David

Agree with all that Jackonico said

My one has done 120K and does not miss a beat is a hoot to drive - in heavy rain it does leak on the drivers side but I need to get the window or the seal adjusted to cure that so not a major problem

I would replace the brakes if you are going to drive it very quickly or indeed track it like I do

Great community on here and great enthusiasm

It is a great little car with surprising room in the cabin and in the boot

Martin

PS that looks quite a nice one in the ad

[GeoffSmith]

And is the slightly less powerful S2 really so different to drive from the S1

Only because of the cats - they do seem to have a habit of disappearing though. You'll loose more power by having the air conditioning on.

[antelope]

Sorry, I live near Stratford upon Avon in Warwickshire.

[antelope]

Many thanks for that. Very reassuring and positions the Elan well. It's a long time since I owned a sports car...perhaps I've gone a bit soft!

Prices do seem to relate to mileage...surprising for a car that apparently will turn in 200k miles...and so many are red! The bad one that I drove was red, or rather multiple shades of pink, is this usual? I'd prefer blue, white or yellow but don't want to pas up a good red one if it's not a prob.

What's considered a high miler? £6-7k seems to buy about 60k milers...the couple of very low milers available at the mo seem to be nearer 10k.

[antelope]

Hi again.

I'm looking at an ad for a 1990 S1 in Blue that has had a 'Mountain Chip High Boost EEPROM' installed. It's had a replacement hood and rear screen, cambelt and auxiliary belts replaced and supposedly a full Service History. It also had it's brakes upgraded to EBC grooved and dimpled discs with Greenstuff pads It's on at 8995 or offer. I gather it still has the old wishbones and the vendor simply points out that the garage who service it have never highlighted a prob, so he thinks they're presumably OK.

I appreciate that it's awkward commenting on whether a car is worth the money or not, but it would be useful to know:

1 - how much this chip upgrade would usually cost and whether they're a good idea...or do they unduly stress the engine? And is this a good upgrade [mountain]?

2 - what such a brake upgrade would normally cost.

Many thanks
David

[texas2201]

Hi David

I have the Mountain Chip -they are great well worth the money

Brake upgrade is not worth much really and in my opinion not worth much over standard brakes

car seems expensive - when I had mine up for sale it was £7000 - full respray, wilwood brakes, new wheels and tyres, roll hoops, cambelts, water pump, PAS pump, rear hubs and discs and pads, rear drop links, new shocks all round, SS Peco exhaust

Martin

[Jackonicko]

brakes upgraded to EBC grooved and dimpled discs with Greenstuff pads It's on at 8995 or offer.

That's not really a brake upgrade! It's just new discs (good) and pads that are good when warm and poor when cold..... Upgrading front brakes to Hi-Specs is a good way forward, allow more than £500, less than £600.

I gather it still has the old wishbones and the vendor simply points out that the garage who service it have never highlighted a prob, so he thinks they're presumably OK.

They rot from the inside out. By the time they're bad, it's too late. They can be replaced, but not without cost.

1 - how much this chip upgrade would usually cost and whether they're a good idea...or do they unduly stress the engine? And is this a good upgrade [mountain]?

This is controversial. If you're going to chip an Elan, then the Mountain chips are the way ahead. Of course they stress the engine, they permit higher levels of boost than Lotus intended, and this is bound to have an impact. For you, as someone contemplating an MGB, the performance of the stock Elan is certainly enough!

There are a number of mileage 'steps'. There is a definite price ceiling for cars with more than about 100,000 miles, though properly looked after these engines will go on, and on, and on.

Anything below 40,000 is low.

There are rules in force on this board about discussing prices - it's a contentious subject.

I would, however, caution you against assuming that cars fetch their asking prices.

A nice, smart, yellow S2 (desirable colour) in Reading (wealthy Southeast) with an M100 plate and 50,000 on the clock struggled to get £7k. I bought my 37,000 mile SE for under £6K. That's private sales, naturally trade cars fetch a little more. But 2010 is not a good year to be selling, though the high mile cars at the low end of the market seem to have held up surprisingly well. The lower end of the market is easier to keep tabs on, as these cars do sell in eBay auctions, and their actual selling prices can be monitored.

[antelope]

OK, thanks all. I feel much better armed now...hopefully will be back soon, as an owner.

Cheers
D

[Jackonicko]

Go armed with the buyer's guide, a thorough knowledge of what cars have actually fetched, and a local LEC member to help spot any 'areas of concern' or areas that might justify a reduced offer!

[dapinky]

That's not really a brake upgrade! It's just new discs (good) and pads that are good when warm and poor when cold..... Upgrading front brakes to Hi-Specs is a good way forward, allow more than £500, less than £600.

I agree somewhat with this, but will add the following....

The discs are a bit of an upgrade, but not hugely so (I have them on the red one).

The pads are an upgrade - but try and find out when they were manufactured (not just when fitted) as Green Stuff have been made with (at least) 4 different compounds - the 'new' ones are good when warm, but not when cold - the earlier ones were better across the heat range, but don't last as long.

If you are keeping the original setup (and i personally have no issues with them) - then the 'upgrades' to do are related to pad material - Pagid Blue (RS4-2) are considered the best of the bunch, closely followed by Red Stuff Ceramic, and Mintex Extreme (now called something else, which i can't remember ).

If you keep the originals, i would recomend giving the calipers a complete overhaul (new piston seals are only a few quid on e-bay - Vauxhall Astra parts from a 1990 car), and then re-grease the caliper sliders at least once a year, possibly more, and if you lay it up over winter, then do them before and after the lay-up.

It only takes half an hour when you get used to it - and it will make all the difference.

Finally, you will get more 'braking' from a careful selection of tyre, than pad (IMHO), but if you do want a hassle-free total upgrade - then Hi-Spec is the most cost effective way forward.