Porting the wastegate

[max and andy]

Ive just read a post on the turbo recon thread which compared the price of a turbo recon and the price he paid for gaskets for a wastegate port which was £70. We have the car in at Lakeside at the moment getting a port. Should we of included a set of gaskets for them to do this job? Andy

[texas2201]

Ditto - same car and same exhaust and same problem - reamed out to 21mm

[quote="vi11ain"]It all depends on if/how badly you get boost creep and the susequent overboost.

On my car - a 1990 SE to which I fitted a 2.25" Peco exhaust, it resulted in boost creep so bad that I had to be very careful about using more than half throttle in third gear or above. Until I finally decided to bite the bullet and pull out the turbo and get it sorted I wasn't really able to use the accelleration at all in higher gears.

[max and andy]

Did you have to use new gaskets? A&M

[Gaz]

You got it, at this point in time my elan isnt a weekend toy but has to get me to and from work and as such it needs to be used, I cant have it sat around in bits getting things done.

Like I said this is a temp fix till the exhaust on it dies and then once a stainless is put on I will have to go along the porting route. Im not going to buy an exhaust that at the moment isnt required and is out of my reach due to the cost of buying the car.

It will be a work in progress that could take some time to complete, I didnt enjoy a car that cuts out at the first sign of me putting my foot down.

Glad you explained the situation regards why the squish was put back in "as a temp solution to make the car drivable until the porting is done"

Anyone reading would think Gary who has over 20 years experience in the trade tuning cars didn't know what he was doing.

Regards

Gaz (Gary Smurthwaite) http://www.remaps.org.uk

[Enright]

So was his previous post not enough praise then?

It is Gary, hes spent a lot of time tinkering with it and she running a lot better, hes also got the elan scan (and knows how to work it, which would baffle me!) and its handy to have someone local who understands the car and loves them.

Ill be taking mine back to him for its services etc, hes a top bloke.

[ektrolleyboy]

Right.
My car exibits no sign of boost creep when driving on normal roads. But for the first time this week I've put in motorway miles and been running at high speeds/rev's for extended periods of time.
I think it's time to Port the Wastegate!

I just wanted to clarify the symptoms.

If I hit the motorway now with a fresh engine and floor it, the boost would quickly wind up and so would the acceleration. Once warm, the boost slows right down and in turn the acceleration. Feeling almost like a misfire and certainly under powered! Boost creep then occurs quite readily through the gears, overtaking and so on. Fuel cut then occurs! Is this because of the excessive motorways rev's and extended periods of low throttle? Once cooled and returned to normal roads the car performs well and as normal again. But after a motorway stint feels like a dog!

Are these typical boost creep symptoms?

I'm worried that once ported I'll still get these boost creep problems. It's the cynic in me! And my luck...

I'm off to Paul Matty now to book it in...

I'm having the waste-gate ported and the original ECM put back. I've been running an S.E ECM in my S2 with a mountain chip. The experts said this was fine, but trust me it's not!
I'm going through petrol like you wouldn't believe. Pops and bangs like you wouldn't believe. An MOT failure.
Change the ECM back and the symptoms change accordingly.

Advice appreciated and good luck.

(is it advisable to port larger than the 20mm?)

[Elanlover]

If I hit the motorway now with a fresh engine and floor it, the boost would quickly wind up and so would the acceleration. Once warm, the boost slows right down and in turn the acceleration. Feeling almost like a misfire and certainly under powered! Boost creep then occurs quite readily through the gears, overtaking and so on. Fuel cut then occurs! Is this because of the excessive motorways rev's and extended periods of low throttle? Once cooled and returned to normal roads the car performs well and as normal again. But after a motorway stint feels like a dog!

Are these typical boost creep symptoms?

For the most part yes but porting the wastegate isn't the only solution. I don't recall what you've had done to the car but creep ususally ocurrs after you've installed a larger bore exhaust. Was that done just prior to these symptoms? There's othe reasons for boost creep. Is the wastegaate operating properly? if its stuck in the closed position then you'll get boost creep. Don't forget that the ECU limits boost until the engine is warm so you might not see the symptoms until the engine's warm. All the other things going on before you get creep don't sound like they are related to boost creep.

[ektrolleyboy]

I do have a Piper sports cat' 2.25 and PCE.
When I say when the engine is warm, I mean after a few minutes of motorway miles with the throttle planted. It's as though there's a build up of pressure and the fuel cut then occurs in gears where it doesn't usually on normal roads/driving...

It is only after installing the exhaust and a misfire then comes in too adding to the fuel cut which comes in easily...

[Elanlover]

One would think that you'd get lots of power and acceleration just before overboost kicks in, not less power and a slower boost rise as you're reporting. So, it makes me wonder if there's something else going on which I'd investigate before porting the wastegate. An ElanScan reading might help.

[ektrolleyboy]

One or two people have noted that porting the waste-gate to 20mm didn't quite work and that 21mm seemed to do the job. Would it be a good idea to port to 21mm regardless? Will this cause any problems? I want to get it right first time being as it's a 400+ GBP job!

[rip]

Ekkers, your description (pops, poor economy, poor performance) sounds exactly like mine when the timing was retarded.
Reset your ignition timing & re-assess.
Everest chip also raises overboost from .94 to .95 or .96 bar IIRC, so this should help a little in combatting overboost.

[HJ2]

Finaly it's time to do the porting Job. I've been reading treads over and over again, but my language knowledge is lettin me down a bit since English is not my native language

After a bit of fiddling i removed the heatshields & the stuff that connect's to the turbo. Now i am puzzeling. Do i have to remove the Turbo AND the exhaust manifold, or just the Turbo ?

[RayD]

Have you read the Wiki instructions.

Ray

[HJ2]

I did I just need the picture that says which bolts are what in the description

[bobbrown]

Porting the waste gate the easy way no grinding just a 20mm end mill took all of 10mins not counting the time to get the snail off with no chance of grinding dust caught up in the seal.

snail.jpg

Also handy for removing broken studs, drill and then a small end mill till just touching the threads and knock the bits left in and out, quick run down with a tap job done.

[Steve A]

I know where I'm going when I get mine off

[HJ2]

Hey Bob, i did exactly the same, but... in the proces i melted 1 HSS and one coated one! The material was just to hard to machine.
So what type of tooling did you use?

[bobbrown]

:poke: I know where I'm going when I get mine off

Not a problem Steve or any one else if it comes to that ..........beer tokens accepted.


HJ2
Thats a standard all be it coated HSS end mill, its all in the speed! if you try to cut with the machine running too fast then you will burn out the tool. Unsure of the speed as its a 3 phase machine driven from a single phase supply so I can adjust the speed on the electronics from very very slow to full speed + there is a belt drive that gives another 5 speeds. I did face it off with a carbide cutter only because it was in the machine at the time.

Bob

[ashm]

Bob - on a slight tangent, how tough are those Marlow mills to shift without serious lifting equipment? I see them come and go for pretty decent prices and I'm tempted to grab one at some point.
Can't really justify a BP, friend has a nice one anyway so I'm really on the lookout for a decent smaller mill that I can shift with a manual pallet truck and a sturdy lever!
As far as the wastegate porting goes, I've been thinking of boring it out on the lathe rather than grinding. Shouldn't be too tricky and as you say no grinding dust. Although the chips you get from the casting skin are usually almost as bad so I'd still give it a good clean after.

Adam

[HJ2]

I thought I'd share some pictures of the porting i did yesterday.
This seemed to be a good tread to post them or perhaps the wiki?

Anyway:
Here's the piccies. Remember: I blocked the path into the turbine with cloth and kept the turbine upstream during porting AND cleaning so gravity helps getting the swarf out.
Block all other openings with either plugs or tape as can be seen on the pictures.


1. Almost ready to port, Turbo clamped on toolbench


2. Side view with Peter's Elan in the Background


3. Tools needed: POWERdrill, conical grinding stones 20 mm diameter


4. Ready to go


5. Halfway


6. Done!