Help explain what has been modified please

[OZZY]

there is also a switch on the central console, might this be something to do with the BBR? I don't know what it does!

[OZZY]

Would you agree that it looks like I have both? I'm open to suggestions on what to do next, but obviously cant leave it like this, if what I have suggested is the case. With the BCFV disconnected and a dummy short run of pipe disappearing from it, a restriction in the air line to the air box and the blue unit I cant identify on the bulkhead in the engine bay it seems inevitable that the BBR is installed.

I am open to opinions as to which system to keep but I'm having a tendency to go for the Mountain chip.

[OZZY]

Can anyone identify which chip this is? Everest or Kilamanjaro etc

[JonT]

Definitely looks like you have both Everest and BBR kit. I'd suggest the everest is the more elegant solution, but have no personal experience of the BBR.

Can anyone identify which chip this is? Everest or Kilamanjaro etc

The chips are identical - it's what is programmed on them that matters. I think Alan only charges about £20 for a reflash - if you haven't already got an O2 sensor, it's worth fitting one and getting the 1499 map - makes for much more economical cruising. Mine has a couple of stickers on it to identify it (one from the original everest, then another when I had the 1499 map reflashed).

The switch on the centre console looks quite similar to my alarm pad (Clifford), although mine also has an LED fitted nearby.

[OZZY]

Definitely looks like you have both Everest and BBR kit. I'd suggest the everest is the more elegant solution, but have no personal experience of the BBR.

Can anyone identify which chip this is? Everest or Kilamanjaro etc

The chips are identical - it's what is programmed on them that matters. I think Alan only charges about £20 for a reflash - if you haven't already got an O2 sensor, it's worth fitting one and getting the 1499 map - makes for much more economical cruising. Mine has a couple of stickers on it to identify it (one from the original everest, then another when I had the 1499 map reflashed).

The switch on the centre console looks quite similar to my alarm pad (Clifford), although mine also has an LED fitted nearby.

Thanks JonT.

From what I've read on here the Mountain chip is the one to go for - as you say the most elegant and probably safer system. I shall have a go at removing the BBS one later, not sure quite what it will be doing with both performance wise!

I have an S2 with an O2 sensor (for the cat etc) so i'm guessing that I'll have the 1499 map.

I too have a clifford alarm, what does this pad do?

[JonT]

I too have a clifford alarm, what does this pad do?

Clunky way of programming it post-install - eg to change options like chirping on arm/disarm, turning features on/off. It should have a pin-code with it which can be used to disarm the system if the remote doesn't work/is lost.

[OZZY]

I too have a clifford alarm, what does this pad do?

Clunky way of programming it post-install - eg to change options like chirping on arm/disarm, turning features on/off. It should have a pin-code with it which can be used to disarm the system if the remote doesn't work/is lost.

If only!

No code, and only one alarm fob, something else to sort out another day I suppose!

Thanks again for the info.

[dapinky]

My 2p worth , for what it's actually worth (2p????),

I know little about BBR kits specifically, but you need to bear in mind that BBR is a make, not a type of boost control.....

....a bit like calling your vacuum cleaner a Hoover, when it may well be a Dyson.

It is a type of manual boost controller, which come in various guises - some are adjustable, by having a 'tap' (well, a type of adjustable valve) in one of the hoses to vary the amount of bleed in the hose, to vary the wastegate actuation - usually once set, they aren't touched again.

some are non-adjustable, and rely on a restriction in the hose - it is the size of the bore of the restriction which varies the boost achievable - and it can be adjusted with a drill bit!

Secondarily to the 'manual' (read mechanical) boost control there is usually another box of tricks (in your case, the blue thing on the bulkhead) which is a 'fuel-cut defender'. This is a good thing, as without it, once boost gets too high the engine goes lean and the pistons melt - it is posible to do without, but the sizes of the restictions need to be acurately set to avoid running lean, and that isn't always easy to achieve.

All of this is assuming that the system on your car is matched up to itself, and everything 'cuts in' as it should - I cannot comment on that as i didn't fit it - therefore please do not assume that you have a well-engineered setup which will work at all times and never run lean (That's just my get-out clause so you don't sue me!)

I would be more worried if you had the 'cut-and-shut' pipework without the blue box

As for the chip, it isn't possible to say what the programing is just from the printing on it - it may be one of Alans, a 'superchip' or anything else - what i can say is that i would hope for it to be a standard map if running an MBC.

Certainly, in my experience, anything which Alan sends out will be marked up as to what it is - ie the PROM I/D and the map (for example, 1499 Everest, 1929 Kilimanjaro etc) - actually on the chip.

I think the only person who can actually tell you what is in there, is whoever supplied and/or fitted it - other than that it is total supposition, and i'm NOT going to be the one to tell you that what you have is good/bad/okay/otherwise.

The only thing i would hang my hat on is that Chris used it as it was (unless it's been changed since then) without any issues, and if it is properly set up, then there is little wrong with the theory of the system you have (Lotus dealers even fitted it as an aproved upgrade), but conventional wisdom and the passage of time/development/improvement would say that the Everest is 'better'.

That said, i know people with other systems (electronic boost controllers) and when set up properly, they are great - but if you don't know what you're doing, stick to something conventional.

[tigerdog]

Seems your car has two different and conflicting methods of controlling boost. At some point, someone fitted one of Alan's mountain chips. That would increase max boost and depending on model, also mid-range boost. It also keeps the overboost protection and other such safeguards. Here's the kicker, though: the mountain chips work by manipulating the Boost Control Valve! The BBR kit, however, is DEFEATING the mountain chip's overboost protection. It's purpose is to send a false signal to the ECU, telling it everything is OK when it in fact is not. Since BCV is bypassed, the chip is not doing anything at all change boost behavior or protect from overboost.

Normally, bypassing the BCV applies any available boost pressure to the wastegate diaphragm. Stock diaphragm/spring would therefore open very low, around 5PSI. Since you're getting much higher boost, something else is in play. Typically, this would be a needle valve or ball/spring arrangement that keeps full pressure off the diaphragm, delaying opening. In your case, though, it seems it's something to do with the restricted hose; the wastegate actuator itself could also have been replaced by a unit with a higher spring rating.

In any case, my vote would be for removing the BBR, removing the funky hoses, make sure the wastegate opens at the correct (low) pressure, then reconnect the BSV and letting Alan's chip work its magic. If there's not enough boost, you should troubleshoot the system. If all is well, reflash to a chip with higher max boost.

[JonT]

Normally, bypassing the BCV applies full pressure to the wastegate diaphragm. Stock diaphragm/spring would therefore open very low, around 5PSI. Since you're getting much higher boost, something else is in play. Typically, this would be a needle valve or ball/spring arrangement that keeps full pressure off the diaphragm, delaying opening. In your case, though, it seems it's something to do with the restricted hose.

Wrong way round. Bypassing the BCFV means there's no pressure to open the wastegate (as it takes the low effort path and vents back to the intake), so you'll get masses of uncontrolled boost. Equally if you block the pipe from the wastegate actuator to the BCFV, you'll only get 0.41bar. Putting a restrictor in is trying to crudely emulate what the BCFV does - ie a controlled leak to atmosphere to get boost above 0.41 bar without it being uncontrolled. At least that's how I understand it and what seemed to happen when I disconnected the hoses to the BCFV to see whether I could make more than 0.5 bar boost (see my thread just below this one).

[OZZY]

Thank you both for confirmation.

As I have paperwork relating to almost everything done to the car and part of that is documentation on Mountain chips and the installation guide I thinks it has to be the one even though it isn't labelled, I'm guessing Chris has fitted this. The BBR kit looks like its been on the car a lot longer, probably before he had it. Until Chris replies to my emails I'm just left scratching my head, but it seems there is no point having both and as you say the Mountain chip needs the BCV connected to work, thats quite clear. When I first looked at it I was fooled into thinking it was connected because of the dummy pipework, maybe Chris was also?

Could someone confirm which outlet on the BCV connect to the air box and which to the turbo end?

[Nige]

Looks like a BBR kit (Brodie Britain Racing) set up to me, the plasic restrictor and Fuel cut defeater are typical of thers I've seen. It's probably been fitted from new and the general view is that they do what they say and do not seem to cause long term harm.

You also clearly have a mountain chip which does the same in terms of giving higher boost and incresed performance but is more elegant and maintains some of the engine safety features which the BBR overides.

The key thing here is you must not have both. At present because the Boost Solenoid Valve is disconnected (the hanging hose) the chip is wholly ineffective as that is what the chip controls. My advice is to remove the BBR kit which will need you to remove the white plastic restrictor, reconnect the Boost Solenoid valve as it should be, disconnect completely the fuel cut defeater on the bulkhead and ensure the Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor is connected correctly as the FCD interupts the signal to this to fool it into seeing a lower manifold pressure than is the case.

[tigerdog]

Wrong way round. Bypassing the BCFV means there's no pressure to open the wastegate (as it takes the low effort path and vents back to the intake), so you'll get masses of uncontrolled boost. Equally if you block the pipe from the wastegate actuator to the BCFV, you'll only get 0.41bar. Putting a restrictor in is trying to crudely emulate what the BCFV does - ie a controlled leak to atmosphere to get boost above 0.41 bar without it being uncontrolled.

Poor choice of words on my part. By "bypassing the BCV" I meant "connecting pipe directly from intake pressure to turbo wastegate". I agree with JonT's assessment. If the BCV pipe has the small restrictor in it, then connects directly to the intake manifold, then what you have is a "controlled leak" type of manual boost control. In this case, the leak is fixed, not adjustable like the needle-valve type I mention. In the end, though, your car still has two conflicting systems of which the Mountain chip is the more elegant.

[esprit888]

Looks like a BBR kit (Brodie Britain Racing) set up to me, the plasic restrictor and Fuel cut defeater are typical of thers I've seen. It's probably been fitted from new and the general view is that they do what they say and do not seem to cause long term harm.

You also clearly have a mountain chip which does the same in terms of giving higher boost and incresed performance but is more elegant and maintains some of the engine safety features which the BBR overides.

The key thing here is you must not have both. At present because the Boost Solenoid Valve is disconnected (the hanging hose) the chip is wholly ineffective as that is what the chip controls. My advice is to remove the BBR kit which will need you to remove the white plastic restrictor, reconnect the Boost Solenoid valve as it should be, disconnect completely the fuel cut defeater on the bulkhead and ensure the Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor is connected correctly as the FCD interupts the signal to this to fool it into seeing a lower manifold pressure than is the case.

and if you have a modified exhaust be ready for overboost fuel cut off, which will require porting the wastegate

[DeeAitch]

You must remove the BBR kit if you also have a mountain chip fitted. The white plastic thingy is not the restrictr but a crude in-line joiner - the restrictor is the metal part in the end of the tube which also must be removed.
Also you need to disconnect the box on the bulkhead - not quite so easy if it has been spliced / soldered in rather than using the correct connector blocks.

[OZZY]

This afternoon I have removed the BBR kit, as suggested I think it may have been fitted from new, the connections on the bulkhead suggest a professional job.

I removed the restrictor, which took some doing, unplugged both ends bypassing the BCV. Connected the short hose leading from the airbox to the bottom BCV connector (its very tight down there and difficult to route the pipe nicely, and the long hose leading to the turbo to the side connector (hoping this is correct! I have reconnected the wiring on the bulkhead where the BBR unit was spliced in.

Fingers crossed I'll try it tomorrow and let you know.

Only thing left is this missing top of this unit on the inner wing - does anyone know what it is doing or not as the case may be.

Thanks for all your help.

[Brit-Car-Nut]

I believe the cap is a filter/muffler so when the solenoid is actuated, it doesn't suck in any trash and you don't hear the temporary vacuum leak. Just watch eBay for a used solenoid for sale and replace it when one comes up. See the previous suggestion to contact Martin as he is breaking up several M100s.

[OZZY]

Thanks for your advice - who is Martin?

By the way I have a 2.25" exhaust and I'm pretty sure that the waste gate has been ported, so all should be OK - fingers crossed

[Brit-Car-Nut]

Martin Reeves can be reached at:

sales(AT)bargainpricedsheds.co.uk

Replace (AT) with a @

He is in Spalding, Lincs.

[owentec]

Just to add that I was the member who went to look at Ozzy's car the other day. I've never seen a BBR setup in the flesh before, but I had a feeling it was something like that. I connected the car up to Elanscan and noticed its only going to 90% throttle (both according to Elanscan and there was a little more movement available on the throttle with the pedal on the floor). I wonder if that has been miss-adjusted deliberately as some crude overboost protection?

Owen