Are Elans rust buckets?

[GrahamH]

I am new to the forum and would like to buy and drive an Elan so have been busy reading through posts on the forum. I am resonable happy with mechanical problems such as brakes, engine and suspension but after reading the post about outrigger rust I wonder if I should steer clear of this car.....or can you advise otherwise? Is there any advise to be had on how to check a car for serious rust before purchase? There are lots of shiny cars out there but how to find out if they are rotten underneath? Any advice would be appreciated..................GrahamH

[epipete]

It's difficult to advise you, the car is 20 years old and generally in my opinion bearing up well the key areas of rust are the Chassis, the Outriggers & Suspension components and prevalence will depend on history and care.

Rust on the chassis is probably the most concerning as there are areas that probably can't be welded, and others that may suffer warpage problems if welding is badly done, so a skilled body shop may be needed. It may be possible to inspect the chassis depending on the sellers facilities & temperament

My view, and only mine, is that the Outrigger problem is going to vary from car to car but I don't believe that it is insurmountable in any but the most severe cases, nevertheless unless individuals have a skill in welding, metal fabrication (for the jacking points), etc then they are going to have to buy in this service, again probably not expensive. Again history is a measure of risk but there is no way of inspecting prior to purchase, though you could request the car is jacked up which will at least prove if the jacking points are shot!

I am currently undertaking a repair to my outriggers and am very aware of my own shortcomings in various skills but now that I've plunged in I'm no longer terribly daunted nor do I feel that it will be overly expensive, or that this issue will be an Élan killer.

All other bits (suspension, etc) are available at a price and are not really a consideration.

In summary, my view is that you get a lot of car for a limited outlay however once purchased you may have some further costs and activities to endure but that could/would be the case with any other type of car you might buy.

[GrahamH]

Thank you for your advise....but if I could probe further. Are the outriggers fully exposed by removing the seats and carpet or are there other bits in the way? How difficult would it be to remove them? I appreciate a seller is going to be reluctant to strip out the interior of the car but in these days when nothing is selling then maybe they could be persuaded to get a sale. You have confirmed my thoughts about the other parts which can be bolted on or easily accessed so it may come down to just this which must be the achilles heel of the M100.........or is there something more serious to consider when purchasing?

Regards, Graham

[epipete]

Well I can't really influence your decision but any car is going to cost money & time to maintain, and both will increase with the age of the vehicle, I think I'm safe in saying nobody bought an M100 as an investment in fact it may be true that over a couple of years you sink so many funds that you easily have more invested than you will ever recover in a sale but that is true of car ownership across the spectrum and IMHO there is nothing that will bring a broader smile than a sorted M100!

As to Outrigger exposure I am undecided, the outside face of the outriggers are completely exposed (painted of course) within the 'tub' ie fore & aft and right & left but there is an area between the rear bulkhead and the boot/wheel arches that I cannot advise upon, I think it should be sound and possible to spray Dimitrol throughout but it's so inaccessible that I can't judge how prone to moisture it will have been!

Is this the Achilles Heel? Impossible to say but I suspect not, hither to I doubt that there are many breakers down to rusty outriggers (or chassis for that matter) however the years are passing by and all except the most mollycoddled example will show some wear and tear in this area, one thing for sure is that owners of M100 particularly those using this forum are privy to the best advice available for maintaining there cars and are pretty likely to have implemented a more robust maintenance than other marques.

The choice and, as always, risk is yours. Good luck

[RayD]

No.

I don’t think any car would be in pristine condition where it can be seen ... and falling apart where it can’t.

Examining the underside of the car will give you an idea of what the hidden parts are like.

Ray

[Quanta]

One very reliable indicator is where has the Élan spent it's life? In the USA the east coast Élan will be 10 times more likely to have issues with rust than a California or Arizona car. West coast cars are known to have considerably fewer issues with rust since we have mild winters and no salt on our roads to melt snow. A west coast car that has lived right next to the ocean most of it's life is the exception because of the salty sea air.

[Jeemy]

My 2 cents, I will be shortly documenting the treatment of my outriggers and under-chassis using Dinitrol, POR15 and an airgun.

What I've gleaned so far:

The quickest way to evaluate the state of the rust is removal of the carpets to gauge the sides and front, but there is also the area behind the seats to consider, and removal of the seats and indeed carpets, is not something a potential seller is going to condone when evaluating whether the price is fair. The wishbones are easier to see if you are prepared to clamber a bit.

Forewarned is forearmed, and the awareness that this could be a potential problem is essential when looking to buy. Unless you are buying a complete beater and the seller is comfortable with you taking it partially to bits then you are going to have to do the same as most second hand car buyers do, and take the attitude that it is what it is.

A very wise man once told me that when you buy a vehicle, you should be prepared to spend the same as the purchase price the day afterwards to get it to your standards. This is true, and probably in reality conservative; its certainly the guideline by which I evaluate all my purchases; if the car is £2500, I have to be prepared to spend £5000 in total before I am comfortable driving it, putting my family in it, or selling it in good conscience.

As to the wishbone parts, I will leave that to others to comment.

What I will say regarding the outriggers, wishbones and rust in general is that metal is strong, but rust is indubitably cancer. I have had incredible success with an ungalvanised Merc van using a Stanley knife, £4 phosphoric acid-based rust treatment from Machine Mart, and £50 worth of POR 15. The rust was treated a year ago and covered with POR, and although it was ugly, by the time I came to respray, there was NO creep and the surfaces are flawless, I am comfortable the parts I did will last 5 or more years.

But you have to be prepared, like all other water-damage repairs, to take away EVERYTHING. Areas of the Merc which I missed and the spray guy did are already creeping. You have to take away every single piece of rust til you are looking at bare metal and treat from there.

As I said, metal is strong, and by removing rusted metal from load bearing parts to get to a position where you can treat and know you are doing a 5-year, not a 1-year job, you can structurally weaken parts. As others have said, taking my example further it is very very possible to remove the load-bearing aspect entirely, replace with new metal, and weld in; there will be somebody local with the know-how to do this, and the cost compared to many of the other upgrades to this vehicle, is going to be reasonable.

The seats are very easy to remove, with 2 people and breaker bars with 17mm sockets, its a genuine 10 minute job. Remember to remove any electrics connected to them before pulling them.

Over the next few days I will be scouring the interior with a Stanley knife, drill-mounted fibre discs and sandpaper and a hoover, to get back to bare metal. If the seams are gone, or I go through the metal, I am going to call in a welder but of course by the time I get there, the car may not be safe to drive or move.

However I firmly believe that in all but the very worst cases, its not going to come to that. I would factor in £2-500 for the effective and permanent rust treatment of outriggers when considering a purchase.

Wishbones I have no experience on this car, but on other vehicles I have worked on, very badly rusted suspension parts such as these clean up well, are made of thick metal, and there is plenty left to work with and treat even after a thorough removal of all car cancer.

YMMV

[Jeemy]

AND i should say (I'm not a bore, just a fast typer) that when you factor in the fibreglass body, and the fact that for £3-5000 of your local currency you are picking up an incredible sportscar, which can be world class with some TLC, it makes the Elan seem a very good buy.

I've always wanted a 2-seater sports car, a GD427 is out of the question, and the Lotus provides a way for me to have a supercar where I can pay a few thousand to get started, and invest money and time when I have it. The repairs seem manageable for a competent amateur with tools, and while I haven't frequented many other similar sites, the support provided here at LEC makes it easy to get started.

As stated above, a check underneath with a scraper, and ideally a pull down of the carpet by the passenger side fusebox which can be achieved and put back with little issue, should give you enough of an indication to work from and if it looks bad, negotiate your price down.

Its going to be a rare case where its actually irreparable.

[RayD]

Ray

[norman lovie]

I bought one, looked fine on the outside and - with a bit of TLC will be fine on the inside as well
there is aspects of rust on quite a few places that, given the age of these cars you,ll be wanting to check and stop any further development

outriggers - as highlighted - fixable with a bit of work - but for the me - of it get's serious down at the back of the B piller posts -use a torch and try and see down the back of them - this will be a challenging area to do a fix

the engine bay front cross member: I had rot through on both sides of the fore and aft legs of this part - didn,t spot the holes as they were on the underside - but it was an easy section to remove - jig onto a decent beam then weld in repair sections - the aux brackets for mounting the rad etc.. will likely be turning to pulp - but they are quite simple refurb pieces

longerons needed a proper blasting and re coating - recon another yr and they could have been structural repair -again easy to fix
suspension arms - worste thing you would need to do is either replace them, or jig them - cut out the rotten braces etc.. and re build with fresh metal - I found under all the crap mine were still solid

leaves the main centre chassis beam - not got serious with this bit yet, but it looks okay at the front cross beam and into the centre box, the back section will need re coating but appears to be solid enough, I drilled a few holes in the tub floor for wax injection into the top of this chassis part and there is surface rust here but not rot

so summary is, if the back bone of the car is sound then the rest is just work - based on the premis - if the tub has to come off to repair / repalce the centre chassis - then - this is step to far i.e. get under her and have a really good poke at the central chassis especially around the rear section where the suspension etc.. mounts

[norman lovie]

round 2

although my present focus is rust repair, I would also sugest that the list of mechanical / electrical gremlins that you can get a feel for by scrolling through this forum do mount up to a rather long list - the majority of which are just typical issues that come from a car of this age - and as you learn you way with the car all part of the fun of taking on a project
but if you were to note down the common ones that regularily pop up - then ask the potential seller if these area's have been tackled - then you will also get a good feel of previous ownership care

Also - my mistake when buying was to not take seriously enough - the basic's - take the car out and give it a good spanking, then observe it during normal conditions like idle, cold start and the transition from no load to max load - any signs of gremlins in any of these conditions are all fixable, but the root causes can be variable and expensive to fix - or not - but - again - if the previous owner hands you a car that behaves itself under these conditions - it is a positive sign
in my case, " always had an issue with a stable idle - yea ok I can fix that - yip but not easy could be lots of things" - " ok it sometimes hits overboost fuel cut - yea ok I can fix that - again - - - -- but signs of a not so caring previous ownership

and I missed the really obvious do a plate MOT web sight check: turns out my car has an "interesting" MOT milage history that is difficult to make sense of - but puts a serious question on the true milage

yip - I bought with my heart not my brain, and happy for it - I got it at a price that justified it being a project - which is what I wanted ( like previously said be prepared to pay the same again to fix it) - I would have been gutted to pay top price for a shiny example that turned out to be mutton dressed as lamb