Wheel Nuts

[epipete]

Went to change my wheels today, having changed the wheels on the nr side, the socket that matches the locking wheel nut won't engage on the off side wheels and so I'm unable to finish the job! I guess that it's anywhere up to 22 yrs old now so the tolerances are probably shot! I have tried it back on the Nr side wheels and it won't engage on those anymore either.

I'll have to get a new set of locking nuts but in the interim any suggestions as to how I proceed.

Pete

[RayD]

I haven't had the problem Pete so this is just an educated guess ...

After making sure it's impossible for you to have the wrong socket in the Lotus ... mixed up with the one from your every day car.

Check the operating part of the socket for obvious damage or jammed foreign body.

Identify which of the four it most nearly goes onto ... then knock it on ... hopefully bringing it back into shape to fit the rest.

Ray

[epipete]

Thanks Ray, that's pretty much what I was thinking of doing, I'll look at it tomorrow now; maybe my local tyre shop have tool that'll shift them.

I'll purchase new off eBay methinks

Pete

[RayD]

Let us know how you go on Pete,

The packaging on mine says M12 x 1.5 and there's 30mm of threaded section under the conical head ... being used on standard S2 wheels.

Ray

[epipete]

Ah we'll, that'll learn me! Tried a little brute force as suggested and the head of the wheel bolt sheared, What fun!!!

Looking at all the Wheel Bolts I can well believe that they are all original and well overdue replacement, good job the weather is so poor at least I'm not using the car at the moment, on the upside it did pass it's mot last week with no probs but then it's only done 2k miles this year due to repairs and crappy climate.

[RayD]

Did you get the locking nut socket to fit Pete?

Ray

[epipete]

Nah Ray, the b****r cracked so now the face of the locking nut is only 2/3rds complete, like a clock face from 1200 to 8000 hrs, so now the 'key' and brace won't engage sufficiently to get enough torque before it slips off.

I'll have to take it to my tyre supplier to see if they have a tool and can remove it I but need to get some replacements before I do as all 4 will need to come out, I can't see it's a major problem, surely?, but it's more an annoyance having been off the road so long I'd just like to get it sorted!

Thanks for your advice and interest

Pete

[epipete]

I think it was Pinky that posted: "The wheel bolts are a 'standard' Vauxhall type - M12 x 1.5 with a 60 degree tapered head.....

That said, there are 2 types used on elans - SE/NA cars have a 19mm head (hence 19mm wheelnut spanner in the boot) and S2 uses a 17mm headed one (the rest of the bolt is identical, including the tapered 'seat', but using a narrower spanner is less likely to scratch the painted wheels)."

But what is the length of the thread? Mine come out at 22mm but on eBay they all seem to be 26mm! Does it matter?

[Andy_J]

If the bolts are too long they will go out the bcak of the wheel hub and catch on the hub carrier and brake caliper mountings.

I doubt an extra 4mm is enough to catch.

[RayD]

Pete,

The ones on mine are generally M12 x 1.5 x 30mm.

There's 27 to 28mm of useful thread before it tapers off at the end of the bolt.

On the face of it 22mm seems too short.

It's worth checking the measurements of the wheels and hub while you are on with it.

Ray

[JIMBO]

Hi epipete,
sorry to hear of your problem, but as you rightly suggest, most good tyre distibutors have the means to remove a locking wheel nut, as do most garages. The AA and RAC guys usually carry a tool to remove them too.
Dont forget that the bolt has to be short enough to fit the steel spare wheel (unless you carry spares for this one as I do.)
Jim

[epipete]

Thanks for the advice on this, today managed to remove the old locking nuts and so will now need to replace them; the question remains with what or more pertinently what thread length of M12 x 1.5 with 60 degree taper.

I found this comment on a thread 'elongated wheel bolts' from Bob Brown "Easy way to tell how long they need to be is put the bolt through a wheel and measure how much is sticks out on the hub face, then measure the bell thickness and take that away from the figure you had for the amount sticking through the bit that is left is what screws into the hub and needs to be over 12mm but under 16mm."

With my 22mm threaded bolts all 22mm poke through because the tapered area seats in to a suitable recess in the wheel, thus I have 22mm, or thereabout, biting into the hub, this is more than Bob's comment suggests is required and certainly less than Ray is detailing below at 27/28mm.

Any thoughts please, before I order some replacements?

Pete

[Brit-Car-Nut]

Thanks for the advice on this, today managed to remove the old locking nuts and so will now need to replace them; the question remains with what or more pertinently what thread length of M12 x 1.5 with 60 degree taper.

I found this comment on a thread 'elongated wheel bolts' from Bob Brown "Easy way to tell how long they need to be is put the bolt through a wheel and measure how much is sticks out on the hub face, then measure the bell thickness and take that away from the figure you had for the amount sticking through the bit that is left is what screws into the hub and needs to be over 12mm but under 16mm."

With my 22mm threaded bolts all 22mm poke through because the tapered area seats in to a suitable recess in the wheel, thus I have 22mm, or thereabout, biting into the hub, this is more than Bob's comment suggests is required and certainly less than Ray is detailing below at 27/28mm.

Any thoughts please, before I order some replacements?

Pete

Front wheel bolt also goes thru the brake rotor (disc) before finding the hub. The rear hubs have a lot of open space behind the hub. If you have 22mm now and they work, why not get more 22mm?

[epipete]

If you have 22mm now and they work, why not get more 22mm?

John, my thoughts exactly, but just because I've had these in for several years with no adverse effects doesn't mean that they are either right or safe!

I was wondering what the consensus was.

Pete

[Brit-Car-Nut]

A 12mm bolt needs 12mm of contact to be full strength since the bolt becomes the weak link after that. As long as it doesn't foul anything, excess length isn't a big problem unless the excess threads get corroded.

Measure the true depth of the thread in the hubs: make a simple "polish" ruler by using an unfolded paperclip. make a small tab at the end, just bend it 90 degrees, nothing tricky. Remove a lug bolt and push the clip thru the hole until you "hook" the backside of the hub. Measure the true "covered area" and see how that fits your bolts. The front probably needs the longest bolt because of the rotor's thickness, so that would be the one to verify and solve. For the rears, just use what you need for the front so you don't have to keep multiple lengths available.

It doesn't hurt to also measure the rear but even if it can stand a longer bolt, the length for the front will be fine.

[epipete]

Thanks John, again you provide me with sterling advice I shall do as you suggest

Pete

[DeeAitch]

My old ones are 26mm
I seem to recall BMW Mini uses the same