Jeemy's Elan Rebuild

[GeoffSmith]

Just thinking out loud: Doesn't the ECM pulse the fuel pump to prime the circuit when you first turn the key to ignition?

The wiring diagram seems to suggest this:



Tripping the inertia switch might not prevent the engine from starting?

Dave is right, tripping the inertia switch stops all fuelling - A1 is an ECU output to switch the fuel pump on and B2 is an ECU input to detect if power has been applied to the fuel pump.

[Fredjohn]

Interior lights on the rear-view mirror don't seem to register if the doors are closed, they are on all the time.

Jeemy

Check the main light switch: apart from turning it, you can also push/pull it: pull to turn interior lights on mirror on, push to turn off. This switch overrides all other switches for the interior lights when on. When off, other switches work.

Re the alternator, I presume the volt meter is not fitted/functioning, otherwise it would read just under 14v if the alternator is actually charging.

[Jeemy]

I will do Fred, its been a bit of a rush and I was not aware of this behaviour. Thanks everyone for comments so far; I am most keen to eradicate the belt noise and ensure the belts are properly tensioned before some tentative driving.

The dash lights was simple - I'd turned the pot down to 0 to seat it at "8AM", like I would with a volume control. Once on they exposed a lot of flaking in the gauge dials....they'll need replaced for sure.

Re the alternator, now the battery is fully charged its not producing the warning code from the charger on engaging the engine. Unconnected its giving out 14v. On switching on the engine both the charger and volt meter inside the car read 12. I don't know what to make of it but its all been a bit rushed and panicked, so I am happy to wait and try to make sure I am comfortable with the belts before troubleshooting electrical gremlins.....

[dapinky]

Interior lights on the rear-view mirror don't seem to register if the doors are closed, they are on all the time.

Is the main light switch (headlamp/sidelamp) pushed in? - pulling it out is the manual switch for the interior lights, so they will be on whatever the state of the door microswitches. Pushing it in puts the interior lights back into 'time delayed door opening/closing' mode

[Fredjohn]

Dave
Great minds think alike : see 3 posts back

[dapinky]

didn't see that, John - I must wear my reading glasses more often now I'm getting older.

[Jeemy]

I've contacted a local guy who has rebuilt some older Lotuses and builds steam engines (the skills must be in the main transferrable!!) to ask about help with tensioning the PAS belt.

I did it so that you could press down about 1cm with a finger. A very rough guess. I'd guess the chittering is because its too tight. I'll check against the alternator belt and see how that feels.

I cannot get a gauge easily or cheaply - its one or the other. I've ordered a Krikit gauge that has the right range. Will speak to the guys at the garage over the road
too and see if I can get any assistance there.

Basically I think I should just loosen it until it no longer makes any noise and rub or spray some lithium grease into the pulley wheel bearings.

This is my final checklist before I spray her:

Get PAS belt tensioned so no noise
Work out why and if (after reconnecting wire) indicators trip the hazard switch
Tighten the exhaust up, and the bolt below the PAS belt
Check again for coolant leaks
Really look into how to get the weatherstrips out and replaced
Sand and finalise the gold paint on the turbo heatshield
Refit clips to hoses as best you can
Identify make of alarm, assuming its the unit on the deck
Remove rubber lip
POR15 to Oil Cooler sides, Hood Struts
Work out to fit the ignition feed wire to the car
Oil the air filter
Refit the heatshields
Drain the coolant and refill using water wetter
Drop from ramps, test gears
Do a 10 min engine run stationary - recheck coolant levels, oil levels
Remember to run wire to the battery brain, later this can feed the amp etc
Check CTS and CAS (install Vitron rings)
Check electric water pump on first 20 min engine run after refilling coolant. Then do 5 minute drive
Check you can disconnect / reconnect the wing mirrors
Work out how to fit the Dynaudio main speakers & how this affects the door card fitment so you can work on during spray
Remove the second door card & both weatherstrips. Make sure the wing mirrors are secure to drive to spray
10 min drive, good test of brakes, engine temperature, put in injector cleaner & half a tank of petrol
Remove the badges
Sand the lacquer
Check you can remove the rear spoiler
Finally check the position once more for the roll bars & make sure you have fittings. Finalise sub box measurements.
Make up inserts for the grilles, charge & oil cooler & radiator to protect during spray; fashion a temp. cover for the hood.
Drive to spray shop, remove bonnet heatshield & wiper jets.
Remove front & side lenses, cover back lense properly. Pass on checklist of paint/body faults.

[Jeemy]

Update to "faults" (mainly tiredness on my part).

Hazard switch light only trips when the left indicator is put on. I'd guess the unconnected plug is the side repeater and its a resistance issue as its the same side. Will be able to connect when I start work on her again next week and test properly then.

Battery seems to have held charge over 48 hours.

Rearview mirror / interior lights is not a fault, I'm glad I know about the pull on the switch though - otherwise I'd have never found out. I'd never assumed the car would have a time delay; while not fully tested, they deluminate when you start her.

Silencer hasn't moved under vibration so is still set *very* slightly to left. As this can be fixed off ramps I am going to tighten the exhaust slip joints next and then leave that until after a couple of journeys.

Its a *lot* less than I thought; although I haven't run a paper-clip test, I was expecting the engine warning light and some trouble-shooting. There will be more to report once she's been put under boost pressure I am sure.

Pics will get brought up to date, but now the weight is off my mind I am catching up with other work so that I can get a clear run at getting her down off the ramps the next good day of weather.

Also have taken a picture of the alarm module, a Motorola, to start looking into getting that running again.

[HJ2]

Do you know which belt is making the noise?
Is the PAS reservoir filled and is the PAS system bled?

Also, you can overtension the belt as well! 1 cm sounds like not that much deflection. Overtighten will cause the bearings of the pump to fail!

[Jeemy]

I think I've definitely overtensioned the belt. I have a tension detector used for drum skins (a "Drum Dial") which might be able to give me a reading I can work from just now.

I think its pretty much the PAS belt that is making the noise but its hard to tell - my ears tell me both PAS and alternator belts are chirruping but the sound could be reflecting off a surface.

The belts' only been running for 5 minutes max so I don't think it will have caused any damage yet. I will not run her again until I can resolve this issue to my satisfaction.

I wonder if there is any ready reckoner so you can guesstimate the correct tension - the ability to turn the belt 90 degrees is often used - I would say I have exceeded that tension - can anybody confirm how much 'turn' their PAS belt exhibits (NB don't do this unless you are comfortable doing it! I will work it out!).

I have a reference microphone so I can possibly identify the source of the noise.

As to the PAS reservoir being full and/or bled, I would guess its fine, but definitely will need checked and bled before too long. I have not touched the system and PAS worked the last time I drove her (last August!!). I have not databased all the service documents so all I know is that by the looks of things last known services:

66k miles (2001) when it was given an A service by an Audi dealer (!) - all previous services were by Paul Matty. Then required were:
B/72k, A/78k, B/84k, A+C/90k, B/96k
It had A+C at 117280 miles, 10k before I bought it - at least I have reference for parts - plugs, oil filter, 2 belts ref 4PK685 and 6PK1045 which reference from here as the two accessory belts, plus timing belt. All it has is "A+C service carried out" scribbled onto the parts receipts.

I have no record of who actually carried out this 117k "service" in 2009. Technically that should include PAS fluid, and it should have been checked & replaced then, and due again in 24 months. So its due.

So its not been emptied of fluid, just not checked. Its on a list of jobs to do much later in the process together with possibly using PAS system repair fluid once I look into any cons of that system.

I've had a bit of a look at the wiring diagrams. The connector I forgot to replug is 99% certainly the side repeater. There is an alarm harness which I should be able to check too.

I do plan to work through all the service items. I had the 3 belts, sparks, water pump and the other pump & tensioner assembly all changed when I had the engine tested.

- the fuel filter almost definitely needs done and actually looks pretty manageable job for an amateur; the part is £9, the procedure looks easy enough, and I have access to the area right now - more so once I start on roll hoops.
- you are right, PAS should be done ASAP. This looks more difficult - I seem to recall I could not even see the hoses to disconnect when I tried before. I can check the level easily now, but as I don't know which fluid is in or whether they are interchangeable, a full bleed seems my only option. due to the refill procedure i can't do this til she down off ramps.
- brake fluid will be done as part of the changeover of the front calipers
- transmission fluid cannot be done until i can get the engine warm
- suspension bushes i have in hand and will change when i change the shocks
- clutch & throttle are checked but not checked in operation
- dinitrol is very much done!
- rear wheel bearings will be checked when i have tracking done, this will not occur until after wheel, suspension & brake changeover

[Jeemy]

Aargh, the side repeater works fine. Studying my pictures I am not sure if the weatherpack connector with the grey/blue and plain grey cables was ever connected. Its possible the coolant temperature sensor from a brief look at the wiring diagrams. So the left indicator trips the hazard switch more often than not. No idea why. will have to do some digging……I'm going to take the rest of the weekend off from thinking about it and come back to it fresh.

[Jeemy]

Fingers crossed my answer is here and the connector needs cleaned (which I did) or located (which I thought I did). Either that or I have a faulty hazard switch (hope not).

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14915

[Jeemy]

So yeah, I've got a bit ahead of myself on worrying and fretting.

Here are the pics for where I got to. Not as many as usual as when I am against the clock I forget.

I put the back silencer on, this was difficult and I did it in the pouring rain, reasoning I'd be under the car. I got absolutely soaked but it was worth it just to see the car visibly phinished - for this fase anyway.....

I struggled really fitting it in, I don't know if I'd have been better hanging this first and then getting the preceding section in, but this is how I did it, I hung this at the end first then worked back on the exhaust hangers; the second one back was impossible to fit basically so after 2 hours of struggling, I put the old one back on; it was pliable enough to make the connection.This is a shot the following day once I got it settled just to the left of centre as I think it will head right as the heat travels up the bolt and settles:

Finally my manifold bolts arrived, so I got to work putting them on. Unfortunately they were tougher than the studs so all the studs got reseated. Fitting them took every tool type I had, breaker bars, mini breaker bars, torque wrenches, borrowed spanners - I wish I had a 3-foot 14mm spanner but these do not exist, so I managed to torque 1,2,3,4,6,8,9 to my satisfaction and just had to do my best with 5 & 7. This shot is halfway through as I took a rest:

Fitting the turbo oil pipe was quite agonising, it was obviously bent out of shape on removal, in storage or never was in the correct shape to being with. Took me about an hour of heating with a blowgun, and bending in a soft-grip vice, before I got it close enough to fit, leaving access to the top oil hole to begin filling it:

I had to remove the turbo air hose to actually wind it down, I attached the bottom of the oil pipe with 2 copper washers, and fit it at the clamp bolt:

I set the battery charging:

And filled the turbo with oil. It seemed to take 50ml:

Final pic is the oil check; after a clean & re-dip the oil wasn't golden brown but its not black sludge either.

As I say, I was too stressed to take many photos.

After this, I relocated the PAS pump, reconnected the electrics, filled with water, pulled the spark plugs (better to trip the inertia switch I realize later), closed off the oil pipe, cranked till I started to see pressure, and revelled in the fact she runs.....

[Jeemy]

Hazard issue is eliminated on cursory examination on a wiggle of the wires at the back via the stereo hole.

The whole area for this switching set is loose and will be fixed with Araldite before final build, I'll also resolder the wires to the connectors and try to identify 100% what wire causes the issue....

[Jeemy]

I am more concerned about this clicking now. Its impossible to tell if its coming from the PAS pump (I've slackened the belt considerably) or the engine itself.

It increases in frequency when you push the throttle.

The car idles OK but after a slightly longer running time, it starts to lose power and sound like its going to stall on idle. Possibly unconnected and all of this is to all intents and purposes 'cold' (the downpipe gets absolutely boiling hot within seconds of running, then engine block not so much). I have not taken it to full temperature yet, I'm trying to take it slow. Equally I don't want to go too much further without identifying this.

I've made a quick video on which you can hear it. I am very worried. Does anybody have any ideas?

I am 99.9% sure I haven't left any rags/paper towels inside the engine (the only place was the manifold ports and I double-checked those) but am worried its coming from inside the cam-belt cover. I just don't know what to do.

Listen here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/j45v93t5uyhwkam/MIGKJVlJzL

[Fredjohn]

To my uneducated ear it sounds very like badly adjusted tappets, but as they are hydraulic this will only happen if air is trapped in the lower part of the mechanism: see workshop manual Section EC P23.

Doesn't really help does it?

[Jeemy]

I've had the guys from the garage across the road and they say its also tappets. He thinks an oil flush and change will help.

I checked oil before he wandered past and it was down once hot to halfway; I filled her up with another 200ml and I think it is easing. I have no idea how to relieve the air pressure in the HVL chamber.

According to Enrights posts here it will rattle a bit at startup and take some time to 'pump up'.

Total running time is less than 15 minutes at this stage. I've got her halfway hot and the next run (assuming nobody pipes up and says "STOP") is going to be until the cooling fans activate. I'd like this to be that last run of the engine before she actually gets moving to get some air round her.

There is a continual escape of air from the EGR solenoid and adjusting the "lid" changes it from intermittent to steady, I presume this is half seal, half blow-off.

I don't think from what I have read 'run in' oil is necessary as I haven't done anything to the engine innards.

[HJ2]

It sounds like a stuck tappet indeed.
If air is trapped, it will get pumped out, but the engine needs to warm up fully and it takes up to 20 minutes.
If it is not gone by then, then i would remove it, take it apart (careful with the little pieces) ultrasonic clean it, prime it as per Wiki and put it back.

With the valve cover off, you can easily feel which one(s) are mushy when compressed.

Try it with a warm engine first will safe you some work if it works!

[Brit-Car-Nut]

I let my engine sit for close to a year and when it first restarted, the tappets were quite noisy. I left it idling to get fully up to temp and they progressively got quieter. After a few starts and shut-downs, they were quiet enough to take it for a drive and when I got back - up and down the block < .5miles, they were quiet as normal. Just don't thrash the engine until they quiet down.

[Jeemy]

The valve cover is the cam cover right? The centre cover on the engine? This is going to come off and be sprayed to match the car.

I have had the rattling noise on hard acceleration cleared down to a loose heatshield. So I am going to wait for her to cool, fit & re-check the remaining heatshields and then do the full run up to temperature. I won't be thrashing her for a good while yet!

If there is still an issue I can do what HJ says when the cover comes off and go from there. The mechanic over the road figured there was nothing to worry about anyway - but I want to be sure.