Standard brakes braking force

[CrtlAltSuppr]

Hello all,

Do you know the std braking force of an s2? Out of MOT, I've got 200 daN which sounds a little low. What do you think?

Thanks,

David

[dapinky]

Hi David,

In the UK, the braking force is measured in kgf, not dekanewtons - but using a quick calculation I can tell you what mine passed the MOT with last time.....

FNS (left side) brake - 233kgf (approx 228 DaN)
FOS (right side) brake - 261kgf (approx 256 DaN)

ROS - 65kgf (approx 64 DaN)
RNS - 69kgf (approx 68 DaN)

NS handbrake - 108kgf (approx 106 DaN)
OS handbrake - 88kgf (approx 86 DaN)

This is quite an easy pass for the front, but quite low at the rear (as expected with the limiting valves), with the axle weight recorded at 784kg (front) and 484kg (rear) - the front has 63% efficiency, the rear has 27% - and an MOT requires 50% overall, which it achieves.

[Fredjohn]

Hi David,

In the UK, the braking force is measured in kgf, not dekanewtons - but using a quick calculation I can tell you what mine passed the MOT with last time.....

FNS (left side) brake - 233kgf (approx 228 DaN)
FOS (right side) brake - 261kgf (approx 256 DaN)

ROS - 65kgf (approx 64 DaN)
RNS - 69kgf (approx 68 DaN)

NS handbrake - 108kgf (approx 106 DaN)
OS handbrake - 88kgf (approx 86 DaN)

This is quite an easy pass for the front, but quite low at the rear (as expected with the limiting valves), with the axle weight recorded at 784kg (front) and 484kg (rear) - the front has 63% efficiency, the rear has 27% - and an MOT requires 50% overall, which it achieves.

Thanks for publishing these figures Dave.... very interesting and useful as a reference. Mine recently passed its MOT (but only just) with the rear brakes a bit of a concern but OK. IIRC my figures were 300/280 and 85/80, with about 100/105 for the handbrake. I know the handbrake cables need adjusting as it needs 6/7 clicks to come on.

I will not touch them until I get the new Jeemy sourced hubs and suitable discs, at which point I will give the rear calipers an overhaul. Front are newly fitted and sorted, but used, Wilwoods.

John

[CrtlAltSuppr]

Hello John,

Those 300 have been reached with the Wilwood?

Thanks,

David

[rip]

I know the handbrake cables need adjusting as it needs 6/7 clicks to come on.

I tried that with mine & the mechanism simply compensated. End result was the same lever movement

[rip]

Those 300 have been reached with the Wilwood?

You'll struggle to get close to that with the standard calipers.

[dapinky]

You'll struggle to get close to that with the standard calipers.

I'd be quite surprised to see numbers much higher than mine with standard calipers, and probably a bit less

[hodge]

You'll struggle to get close to that with the standard calipers.

I'd be quite surprised to see numbers much higher than mine with standard calipers, and probably a bit less

lotus elan m100
standard calipers all round , brake test 2012 -

imag0536(1)(pp1).jpg

wasn't in the right spot to get a mobile snap this year (2013) but the figures were -
NSF 293
OSF 314
NSR 57
OSR 60
HB NS 151
HB OS 129
I check the sliders are free and discs clean before test and lightly sand any glaze off the pads.
This is my second elan, the brakes feel pretty much the same as the first elan when they were working ok (on number one a front caliper was replaced due to seized piston - torn seal - and rear brake sliders needed attention). With elan one I once locked the fronts during an emergency stop with michelin exaltos on, going uphill (on boost)


surprising maybe, (surprised me after hearing of others experiences) but true.
I have ferodo FDB173 pads now on 2nd elan,they stop very well but haven't locked them yet (don't want to!).
My experience seems to be different from most that write on here about m100 brakes, certainly from those who express themselves strongly on the matter (maybe after a scare with under par standard calipers which is understandable, happened to me when the piston seized also with greenstuff when cold). I've driven only one elan with hi specs and found them to be no better than a good working standard set up. Having said that, please bear in mind I've only driven 3 elans.
I write this because most threads are about problems and solutions to problems - not many folk write in to say ' hey all is honky dory today ' about technical matters.
Contemporary reviews of the elan made no negative comments about the brakes as far as I'm aware (some positives iirc) which may suggest problems could be due to
the elapsed time and the inevitable insidious effect it can have. Unless you've owned the car from new(and serviced it yourself) it's going to be a lottery as to whether the necessary timely actions were taken to prevent the inevitable insidious .
Just my rambling thoughts re my own experiences, I am not an expert on brakes and I haven't tracked the car so not aware of any heat dissipation problems. It could just be that I've been lucky with both elans I've owned.

[ashm]

[Rusty Wishbone]

I am attempting to get as much out of the standard brakes on my Elan as possible by servicing them really well and fitting Ferodo pads at the front. We shall see how I get on in a few months.

[CrtlAltSuppr]

Hi,

Does Anyone with willwood or any other kit could give their values with the kit? Would be intersting to compare the difference

[HJ2]

I have driven around for a couple of years with the OEM brakes with Ferodo 2500 pads. The brake setup was in absolute mint condition, completely overhauled (all seals and and new anodized sliding pins), together with fresh brake fluid and metal braided hoses all around. Bled for 7 or 8 times before all trapped air was removed.
Compared to every single other car I have owned (15 or so) they were rubbish IMHO. I could not lock them up on demand without almost breaking off the back of my seat! I had several scary moments before i had enough money to spend on a better setup. This is also the case with a couple of Elan's from my friends.

When i replaced them with the Hi Specs, i could brake better (shorter stopping distance), the difference between left and right was virtually gone, and i could lock them up with my big toe if i want, and also unlock with that same toe all in the same braking maneuver.

There is however a big difference with my 16" Hi Spec setup and the 15" Hi Spec setup! The latter almost feels like the OEM setup, but with lower offsets between left and right and slightly improved performance.

In the end, more pistons, better pads and better disks do all matter, but diameter of the disk is most important IMHO again...
I also used the Wilwood Setup with Brian's hats. I could almost do a stoppy with that! However under repreated heavy braking (track day) i found that the disks tend to warp a little. I did not encounter this anymore with the Hi Spec setup. I must admit that it could also be caused by using discs that were rather on the thin side.

From colleague Elan drivers i hear that the AP setup is brilliant as well, but at a cost. I think you can get 90% of the benefits of an AP setup at 50% of the price with the Hi Spec kit. It's good value for money.
So: in my own experience i still would recommend an upgrade of the OEM calipers any day, and preferably 16" if possible.


p.s: all of the above is fronts only

[ashm]

I found the 15" HiSpec kit to be a significant improvement over the stock brakes.

However, bear in mind that it's not necessarily a good thing for it to be easy to lock up the wheels. For most average drivers, and in the absence of ABS, it would presumably be safest to construct a system where really stomping on the pedal could just about lock the wheels. That way, you've got access to all the braking that the tyres can deliver, moderated across the full range of pedal force, but very low likelihood of accidentally locking up which lets remember can be quite dangerous for those who don't instinctively react appropriately to regain traction.
I've known several everyday drivers whose instinctive response on sliding is just to press harder on the brake, even though given time to think about it they know that this isn't useful.

I suspect that the stock brakes may have been quite well thought out when they left the factory. Of course, the years since then have not been kind!

Adam

[RayD]

I think I've entered my standard brake figures on the forum each year ...

They have been approx ...

Front 300
Rear 100
Handbrake 200

But like hodge I make a point of taking the glaze off the pads and discs on the day of the test. While I've checked the sliders every year they have never once been less than free. I have no idea if they would lock up, but I doubt it.

Ray

[Fredjohn]

Rather late answer to a question but yes 300 with 15" Wilwood on front.

Not sure of original source, but they have aluminium hats and are caliper no. 120-8724 (or 5 can't remember, but now superceded by 120-8729, as listed in WkiLEC)

I got them from Stef after her car was written off. Refurbished them with new seals, pistons, pads and new discs (rotors). Much much better than OEM + Ferodo 2500 which were in good condition. Have these for spare if anyone needs a new set.

Still need to bleed them a bit more, but as I said will sort this when I get the new hubs etc for rear from the group buy.

[RayD]

Compared to every single other car I have owned (15 or so) they were rubbish IMHO.

Hopefully my earlier post isn't contradicting anything others have said ... Generally speaking I think they're rubbish as well, particularly compared to a modern car.

Ray

[TrevorB]

I am attempting to get as much out of the standard brakes on my Elan as possible by servicing them really well and fitting Ferodo pads at the front. We shall see how I get on in a few months.

Have pm'd you

TrevorB