A newbie from Orpington

[Ian T]

Hello there,

I thought I would register here because I'm in that happy position of discovering the secret of classic car insurance and in particular that it really is a prospect to insure an M100 for £150 per year, which means it doesn't have to be my main car...

So, given I have a good friend who has a classic Elan Plus Two from the sixties that he has owned since it was about 18 months old as a brand advocate and having always loved the slippery shaped 'portable' looking M100, here I am, looking for one even before I have only got grey hairs left...

I joined up here because I thought from reading various threads, this was a good little community and probably the best reference on the net for these cars.

I have been playing with cars (a self confessed petrol head) since I was 17 and these days am pretty much independent of the motor maintenance trade even down to owning a tyre fitting machine, balancer, lathe (to make new parts), engine crane, three flavours of electric welders and an ever-increasing array of tools. Having been bitten by the Vauxhall bug many moons ago, I restored a Mk2 Astra bought from a field, where it had rotted for some time, replaced lots of panels and got it looking smart before deciding that what it really needed was a 'proper' engine - the decision of which one to fit slightly influenced by the cries of 'no, the Vectra GSI engine can't be fitted in the Mk2' and so the challenge was set. Of course that means I already have a car with a broadly similar power to weight ratio, that makes a fantastic noise when pressed, but now shall I say it is time to have one that was built specifically to go round corners as well as getting to the speed limit quickly. I won't be parted from the Astra, which only really comes out on dry days and to club events, so now perhaps you can see where the cheap, NCB free insurance plays a role...

All being well, I will find a nice M100 to look after and prospectively drive much more than the Astra through the drier months of the year, and with its recognisable GM underpinnings, hopefully I can get a software download for my Tech1 and be on home ground when it comes to test equipment to support it too. If anyone is similarly afflicted with an affinity for Vauxhalls, I have both Tech1 and Tech2 and would be happy enough to help out with diagnostics, or reprogramming of ECUs etc.

So... The challenge. I feel I'd like to spend up to £4k for a car, happy with something faulty so long as parts aren't prohibitively expensive and can borrow a trailer to bring it back if necessary, but would prefer something that I can just get in and drive this summer, then fettle a bit over the winter.

Ian.
(Based in Orpington, Kent)

[maz_r]

Welcome Ian,

This is a very friendly place to hang out, with loads of experience, advice and occasional irreverent banter...

From the sounds of your extensive experience (and garage equipment!), you are going to make lots of friends in the SouthEast

Hope your search goes well

[Fredjohn]

Welcome to LEC: may you have many years of M100 ownership, once you get one!

How about this one as a starter for 10: viewtopic.php?f=49&t=23440&p=295070#p295065

It's free: well almost! It has some very good upgrades, but obviously still has some fettling to do, although not a lot to get it going initially.

[Ian T]

Thank you.

I'm no expert I'm afraid, but take things on to learn and with the help of a couple of friends and Vauxhall forums I can tackle most jobs now.

I've replied to Maz's thread looking for some photos - are there any published price lists from the parts suppliers that can be used as a guide to help gauge repair costs? I understand a hood to be approx £1000 with seals, expect a full respray with all strip down, prep and reassembly being done by me would probably be £5-700ish. It's a tough proposition in some respects because it might not satisfy the 'instant fun and fettle later' target, but has to be worth consideration. And I'm a sucker for a basket case...

Ian.

[Fredjohn]

As a further pointer, and possibly help you know what is or isn't on the Elan, there is an ALDL socket hanging behind the glovebox. There is some free software called "Elanscan". Download it and have a look at what it can read: in fact pretty much replicates the Tech system, as far as I can gather. There are others on here who will know far more than me about it.

All you need then do is acquire the correct lead (available on here too at a small cost), usually ALDL to USB and you can read what's happening under the bonnet. So long as you have a car to plug it into!

However, just by looking at the Elanscan on its own will show you a lot about all the various monitoring and sensors on the engine. The ECU is of course of GM origin.

As maz_r said: with a garage set up like yours, you'll soon have plenty of contacts in the SE!

[Ian T]

Just been reading about Elanscan - in about 2002 I looked at building something similar for the 80s/90s Vauxhalls and got some way through understanding the protocol, but gave up on account of it being more practical just to buy a Tech1 from the US and reprogrammed it using Vauxhall's TIS, which I used to have a licence for.

You might be right - Elanscan is probably just fine and probably easier to use than Tech1 on account of having a lot more screen available to display live data. I was thinking along the lines that I have a spare Mass Storage Cartridge for Tech1 and so it would be really good to be able to use that.

Here's a picture of the business end of the Astra, which I learn has the same front brake discs as the M100 - I upgraded from Mk2 ones to Mk3 with the later ATE calipers.

Ian.

[HJ2]

Welcome aboard and good luck with the hunt!

[Enright]

Welcome!
That Astra looks fantastic. What is the capacity and power output of that Vectra GSi engine?

[TrevorB]

Welcome to the Forum. Another member in Kent would be great. Hope you find what your looking for.

TrevorB

[abmunro]

Hello and welcome

[chipp]

This one of any interest? http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-moto ... 1069984271

chipp

[Rusty Wishbone]

Ian,

Welcome to LEC. You are clearly handy with the spanners, but it sounds like you are looking for a fairly well sorted Elan. Is that right, or would you really like a bit of a project? £4k might be a bit low for a sorted car.

This probably isn't too far away from what you are looking for: http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C514301
This looks very good too: http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C500403

[Ian T]

Thanks all.

The one in Halesowen seems too good to be true - why so cheap? The photo of the back end makes the lights and panels look crooked to the boot lid, not quite sure if that's just a photo angle and the same with all cars?

I've emailed the other two advertisers; the one in Maidstone is localish and worth a ride over I reckon, the other one is a bit further. As to values, you guys know more than I do. I would expect to get one in good 'honest' condition with the main trouble spots already taken care of for around £4-4.5k on the basis if it being an unmodified car at 100k-130k or so miles. The white one I linked in the eMay thread went for £3k this morning and I'd probably have had a bid on that apart from the fact the seller was unavailable to show it to me this weekend before the end of the auction, so we both lost out.

Honest answers, I won't be upset - how far wide of the mark am I here?

Specialist dealer's forecourt, near mint example, sub 80k miles, full history, nothing needs doing: £10-12k
Same car, on a driveway: £7-10k

Clean 'enthusiasts' car, 100k miles, nothing needs doing, good history: £3.5-4.5k
Same, but sensibly upgraded (brakes, stainless wishbones etc) +£1k?

Clean car with significant current problem (like minor Head Gasket Failure), 100k miles, good history, £2.5k maximum?
Scruffy car with no history and various faults: £1-1.5k?

I'm going by what I've seen advertised and on eBay, it's hard to judge which car falls into which category though, as some have nice adverts and some are pretty blunt and probably don't do much to 'sell' the car.

I'll go sit in the corner now while you tell me I've got that totally wrong (and hopefully correct me).

Ian.

[Ian T]

Ian,

Welcome to LEC. You are clearly handy with the spanners, but it sounds like you are looking for a fairly well sorted Elan. Is that right, or would you really like a bit of a project? £4k might be a bit low for a sorted car.

This probably isn't too far away from what you are looking for: http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C514301
This looks very good too: http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C500403

I could be interested in either of those, thank you.

What do I want? Well, the ideal (and accepting I pay more for the privilege) would be to find a standard(ish) car that is cosmetically already tidy and can be enjoyed for the rest of the year and then fettled over the winter. I'm happy spannering, but it's time consuming and best done in the winter - I put radiators in our garage - so either I wait until the low season when I bet these fall in price and buy a broken one, or live for today and have a working one now.

As for budget, I find myself feeling that I shouldn't be spending more than £4.5k on this sort of fun, and that I should be able to find something suitable for a max of £4k. It doesn't have to be mint, nor mechanically or electrically perfect, but a tidy, functional car with no major issues probably fits that bill. Looking at the prices of seals etc (as far as they are published), buying a car that needs them to keep the occupants dry would suggest I shouldn't be paying more than about £3.5k but perhaps that's too subjective.

What do you reckon?

Ian.

[epipete]

Re your pricing strategy above I think you are pretty close, however, all these cars are now getting old and component failures are bound to increase, patently, therefore the better the history the more interested you should be, IMHO.

I wouldn't discount a low priced vehicle as this will allow you extra to spend on repair, maintenance etc, whereas a dearer vehicle should show evidence of those repairs already having been done which brings me to the conclusion that you'll spend equally (give or take) whichever route you take. Upgrades are nice but not crucial (though having them suggests the seller cares, though absence of upgrades doesn't indicate that the seller doesn't!).

I bought mine cheapish and have spent lavishly over the past 6yrs and now have a very nice (again IMO) original(ish) car but I'll never see that money again and couldn't guarantee that were I to sell it tomorrow the new owner wouldn't have a bill next week - it's the nature of the beast.

It is worth noting, as I've said many times, you probably will get your purchase price back at the end as there is little or no depreciation so you can offset some cash each year for repair, maintenance, upgrade costs.

It doesn't take much to talk yourself into it

[dmc_firstlotus]

Your approach and budget for buying an Elan is pretty much exactly how I approached getting one a couple of years back - these cars are getting old now and while there may be a few perfect (and expensive) ones out there, most will either have a few niggles or will soon develop them once you buy it. When I got mine, I looked for one that had a FSH and appeared to have been looked after but wasn't in mint condition, which was reflected in the price. You'll always have to spend some money and time on it so I bought mine on the basis that it seemed to run very well (and I tried a few) and accepted that I'd probably uncover some problems (as I soon did - radiator fans not working and whilst I got through another two years, two wishbones had to be replaced by SJ Sportscars for this years MOT). I find ownership an endless run of silly faults (e.g. the Perspex over the rear number plate fell off going over a speed hump and was then run over by a 4x4; headlight not popping up; horn jamming on, door locks, rear lights melting a tiny hole in the lens causing MOT failure) but the car has always driven beautifully and never let me down. The roof needs replacing ideally but I rarely take it out in the rain and even if you get a new roof there is no guarantee that it won't leak!

I bought mine from a lady in Orpington who had it from new and I'm only down the road in the Sidcup area if you ever want to take them out for a drive when you get yours!

[Ian T]

Re your pricing strategy above I think you are pretty close, however, all these cars are now getting old and component failures are bound to increase, patently, therefore the better the history the more interested you should be, IMHO.

I wouldn't discount a low priced vehicle as this will allow you extra to spend on repair, maintenance etc, whereas a dearer vehicle should show evidence of those repairs already having been done which brings me to the conclusion that you'll spend equally (give or take) whichever route you take. Upgrades are nice but not crucial (though having them suggests the seller cares, though absence of upgrades doesn't indicate that the seller doesn't!).

I bought mine cheapish and have spent lavishly over the past 6yrs and now have a very nice (again IMO) original(ish) car but I'll never see that money again and couldn't guarantee that were I to sell it tomorrow the new owner wouldn't have a bill next week - it's the nature of the beast.

It is worth noting, as I've said many times, you probably will get your purchase price back at the end as there is little or no depreciation so you can offset some cash each year for repair, maintenance, upgrade costs.

It doesn't take much to talk yourself into it

And talked into it I am...

What you say makes sense and while I find it hard to judge just how problematic these cars generally are, it goes the same way as my Mk2 Astra I guess. If I hadn't replaced everything that moves when I bought it, all the pipes etc, it would go through MOT tests like a 24 year old car, but instead, it is much more like a 6 year old car as the bits that might fail a test are at most 6 years old.

Buying cheaply is attractive providing I am not just picking up something that needs all it's wishbones replaced, a hood, all the seals and a respray, in which case a more average car might be a better proposition. I don't think I can justify (or really afford) a top end car as I don't honestly know how much I will use it for day to day driving. If it is watertight, reliable and fun, I could see myself using it quite a bit, otherwise it could become a fair days only motor and do maybe 1000 miles per year at most.

I appreciate your comments on pricing too, being new to this I am going by what I see and probably will hesitate too much in buying and miss out on the best deals, but hopefully won't end up with a rotter either.

Ian.

[Ian T]

Your approach and budget for buying an Elan is pretty much exactly how I approached getting one a couple of years back - these cars are getting old now and while there may be a few perfect (and expensive) ones out there, most will either have a few niggles or will soon develop them once you buy it. When I got mine, I looked for one that had a FSH and appeared to have been looked after but wasn't in mint condition, which was reflected in the price. You'll always have to spend some money and time on it so I bought mine on the basis that it seemed to run very well (and I tried a few) and accepted that I'd probably uncover some problems (as I soon did - radiator fans not working and whilst I got through another two years, two wishbones had to be replaced by SJ Sportscars for this years MOT). I find ownership an endless run of silly faults (e.g. the Perspex over the rear number plate fell off going over a speed hump and was then run over by a 4x4; headlight not popping up; horn jamming on, door locks, rear lights melting a tiny hole in the lens causing MOT failure) but the car has always driven beautifully and never let me down. The roof needs replacing ideally but I rarely take it out in the rain and even if you get a new roof there is no guarantee that it won't leak!

I bought mine from a lady in Orpington who had it from new and I'm only down the road in the Sidcup area if you ever want to take them out for a drive when you get yours!

Thank you - I am expecting a bit of a trail of work if I am honest and hope that I can fix most of it without much help or recourse to a garage. I have nothing against them, but my motoring costs significantly less than my colleagues at work simply because I trade time, fingernails and sometimes a bit of blood for the fun and satisfaction of knowing my cars well.

I have heard the word 'idiosyncratic' used about Elans (Lotus in general actually) and what you describe above strikes a chord. Looking at the dash fittings, I recognise so much from several 80s Vauxhalls and know that much of it is probably still around in scrap yards today, but in fast decline as old years close and new ones cube anything older than 10 years straight after depollution. I guess there's a thread for sourcing parts somewhere, but I could list several straight away.

If you don't mind, I'd love to see your car and if you have time, take me out for a quick run in it so I understand what a good one goes like, what you learned from yours etc.

Cheers,

Ian.

[dmc_firstlotus]

Ian

Happy for you to have a look at mine and go for a quick spin - do you want to PM me and we'll fix a time, David

[Ian T]

Ian

Happy for you to have a look at mine and go for a quick spin - do you want to PM me and we'll fix a time, David

Cheers David, contact details en route via PM.

Ian.