B Pillar Holy Grail at last!.

[Lotus54]

Personally Jamie, I'd love to see your info/results etc.
I like to fabricate things, make them better (it rains a bit here) and save money.

I can also understand those that want to keep them bone stock.

So if you decide to share your hard earned info- I know I would appreciate it.

Mark

[Jamie N]

Cheers guys!, You know I was just thinking there and this thought occurred to me about this whole situation, it goes like this...

If someone else was trying to make a solution to waterproof our Elans and that project was NOT motivated by a desire to make a profit , but instead it was motivated by a desire to help people keep their Elans dry (with maybe a small profit to cover costs), then surely if someone else then came along and said "look guys I have created another solution here and it works fantastic and I am going to give all of you the details for free so you can achieve this yourselves" then surely the other persons would then have a mindset something along these lines.... "Wow that's great someone else has also helped us achieve this goal of having a waterproof Lotus Elan, how commendable!" "We now have 2 alternatives to achieve a car we can drive in the wet, excellent!".

But it didn't pan out anything like that did it Guys?, NO!, it ended up with the guy that wanted give out his hard earned discoveries for free, being viciously attacked and lied about, now why would that happen if the first project was NOT about making as much profit for the people concerned?. Its a legitimate question!.

[Jamie N]

Due to discussions I have had with other members and from the general consensus from postings regarding the seals it would appear that there is no real issue with me sharing what I have come up with after all, woohoo! , I know for a fact this is going to make a few people chuffed to bits and that alone gives me great pleasure, however there are a couple of things I would like to do before blitzing your deepest cranial recesses with such a rubbery challenge!.

The main one is this.... I would like to get another Elan to come to Fife so that I can fit a set to a different one, the main reason being the variances between cars and hoods and I want to see if a full set of rubber seals which perfectly fit my car can transfer to the other and how much if any fettling is needed, because obviously my Elan could be quite different and if I have worked out a system that matches it, it could potentially cause mega issues for others if their hood / windows /brackets are different, I know just one is not going to be a concise study of possible variances but it will definitely answer some thoughts I have.

Another reason I want to do this is because we would then have another independent Elan'er who would be able to give a verdict on the seals and whether it was worth the effort of taking on the task for the Guys that want to give it a go, so basically someone comes to me with preferably rotted sponges all round (that shouldn't be hard ) and I will fit you 2 falling pillar seals, 2 intermediate seals and 2 side part of header seals, all EPDM rubber,( I also have some A pillar seals that are available although not the fold over lip ones, the other ones I have are more like the original A-pillar seals in design but made from rubber ,still superior to the sponges though), obviously I cant do all that for free as it will be a hefty job and considering the amount of time just to make the set alone but if anyone is up for it I will do the 6 hood seals for basically the labour it has taken to make them and then fit them to your car, I wont charge for the seals themselves as I said before they are not expensive if sourced from a breaker of late vehicles, they are however fairly time consuming to make but since I would be using you're car as a guinea pig if you like I would be happy with say 15quid per seal?, surely the deal of a lifetime? .

The other thing I want to do after that, providing the other car fitted with them caused no major headaches and the owner is happy with the outcome, is to create a new thread for posting all the details and pics of how you can do it yourself and what you need to get, that way we can start afresh and try to forget what happened here?.

So, comments appreciated on this as an idea folks, is it a fair way to do it?, and more importantly if we are all agreed, who wants to be the donor?.

Man fisting n shoulder bumps n stuff

Jamie.

[novacaine]

haha sounds awesome and I wish I was closer to Fife lol but I think Kent is a little to far away for me to make it up to you. Unless you want to come to the good old garden of England

P.S. I still want a set

[Jamie N]

haha sounds awesome and I wish I was closer to Fife lol but I think Kent is a little to far away for me to make it up to you. Unless you want to come to the good old garden of England

P.S. I still want a set

Jon, there is a Fife word they use that would answer your question, its "naw", Im not a Fifer but I can translate it for you..."no".

[Jamie N]

Well I reckon a couple of pics of what you would be getting would be a good idea , now remember they don't come off the donor car looking quite like this!, they need a fair bit of work , but this shows what can be achieved if you are competent with tools and an ability to improvise.

Now these are "the" seals which have been debated on this post folks, but I want to state clearly here that its not a simple task to make these and the last thing I want is people rushing off to the breakers yard and spending money on something that is just too much for them to achieve.

The more sets of them I make the easier they become but someone just making 6 for their own car will face a fair challenge even with all the instructions I will eventually post, but in the meantime it would be great if someone wants to come and get the set fitted, that way we are going to have a lot more insight into the new thread with all the details for the folks that want to give it a go. This opportunity to get this set fitted would be ideal for someone who feels they wont have the time or skills to make their own.

I did a hefty water test with them yesterday and the car remained bone dry inside, but the reality is when you see the glass closing onto them it is plainly visible if any parts are not up against the glass, it is actually surprising how little pressure is needed onto the seal for it to be watertight, the main thing is to make sure that contact is made all the way round the glass, and if you can do that you have achieved the ultimate goal (for a very small outlay). Is this not what we have been after all these years .

The lower seal is showing the top part that the hood fabric sits on.



As it reaches the header here it looks a bit like it is being squashed down, it isn't, it has to drop slightly there due to the shape of the hood and the shade makes it look lower than it is.



OMG



So now that they have been put on public show the big question is does it look like it was worth the hassle!.

[Ian T]

Looks good to me.

How are they fitted to the roof frame?

[novacaine]

I really wish I was closer! I'd jump at this, that last picture looks awesome!

[chrisP]

I think you have done a great job on the seals!! I see no reason why people cannot update their cars as they see fit. To be honest if they do stop water ingress then they might save a few cars from rusty outriggers. I look forward to seeing your instructions and if the seals prove too difficult for some, I'm sure you will have a 'cottage industry'
Great work again!!!
Chris

[Jamie N]

Ian, the top 2 are secured with Stainless steel self tappers that have a 10mm washer, I source them from any Japan built Honda (not the Swindon ones they are rubbish) and I would recommend whenever you are in a scrapyard grab as many as you can, mainly found on mudflaps and arch liners, they are absolutely fantastic screws and useful for so many things, I replace all the rusty Lotus ones with them. there is room for slight adjustment on the upper seals but the way the are lined up on the car before marking the holes is fairly accurate, the seals have a fixed stainless bracket built into them.

The falling pillar seal has a great little feature which makes it multi adjustable, again secured with Stainless screws, all of the seals are very easily removed and no metal part of them will ever rust, everything is Stainless.

I don't think the pictures do them justice at all, to see them for real and the way they work is something else.

[DavidEJM]

Even though I'm at the other end of the country I'm seriously tempted to drive up there. If only I had the time! Unless someone else jumps in there first.....mmm.

[Eagle1]

Hi Jamie, Been in the Middle East for a while but back in Blighty and catching up with all the news on the forum.....all I can say about this thread is Wow!

As you know I have a set of the A's already and they are being installed in the next few weeks on #200, which btw is being completely resprayed in Lotus Carlton Green (was Medina) The garage, a Lotus/ TVR specialist, have already commented on how much more superior your A's are to the sponge original, praise indeed as they are real perfectionists.

If this could wait till October I'm your man, I want to take my Lad on a road trip to see where his dad spent a couple years (Livingston, without the e) as a young boy. Sorry it's not before but I need a whole load of obsolete parts for them to do the job properly so I will be spending time trawling through salvage yards for a variety of bits and pieces. One of which is new door seals.......fancy a crack at those? if it is any sooner I let you know and perhaps we can sort a date out. Shame Motorail isn't around anymore but the nigh on 500 mile run from South London sounds a great road trip for father and son.

Keep up the good work

PS:Although I won't have #200 will be at Brands next week so hope to meet up with other forum members on the day.

Dean

[Ian T]

I'd love to see the A Pillar seals as they are the top priority for my particular car. Scarily the roof header seal is also pretty poor at the drivers end and I will have to tackle that as well sometime. With all this seals malarkey, knowing which adhesives and sealants to use is half the problem. I'm almost tempted to go and check out a few scrappies myself now, but if a set comes up that I can just buy and fit...

I will be at Brands Dean - I will try to remember to bring my 'Ian T' number plate along to make ID easier - please come and say hello.

Ian.

[Eagle1]

I'll keep an eye out

[Jamie N]

Hi Dean, long time no hear , hope you enjoyed you're trip overseas. If you still want to come up to Scotland in October that's fine with me and I'm only 20 minutes drive from Livingston, I'm sure we will be able to get all the hood seals done in a day no problem.

Ian, there is some good news on the Header seal front, I have been working on that particular seal for quite a while now as that is one of the main seals that really looks nasty when they go plus I was never really happy with having the side sections as separate parts, so ive been concentrating on getting that one perfected over the past few weeks and ive finally got it sussed... a full header seal with the side sections all in silky smooth EPDM plus matching intermediates, I have so far made 3 plus the prototype but I reckon I can make a good few if people are needing them.

I will get some good quality pictures soon and post them up as a separate thread, this is the one that has given me most satisfaction in creating as I really hit a brick wall with it for a while and at one point I was convinced it was virtually impossible to get it right, but im chuffed to bits its all came good in the end, the transformation in appearance is unbelievable. Pics and details imminent.

[novacaine]

Now you have the front header part too! Damn it Jamie I need one

[Jamie N]

Now you have the front header part too! Damn it Jamie I need one

I know Jon, I'm sure it will happen .

[novacaine]

Now you have the front header part too! Damn it Jamie I need one

I know Jon, I'm sure it will happen .

[ghunterglas]

catching up on lotus stuff, car's been off road & i was away, however
I'm in Glasgow, if i get a chance i'll bring car over, folks are in Dunfermline & haven't been over for a while, let me know where you are,
cheers Graeme

[Jamie N]

Hi Graeme, been a while since I saw you!, think the last time was about 4 years ago I passed you in your Elan on the Longannet road?. Just give me a shout anytime you are over.

Jamie.