Brake caliper fell off on motorway

[wayneg]

Hi Guys,

As my first post I should say, what a great forum! I've been browsing here for a few weeks reading up and have plenty more reading to do. I purchased my first Elan on Sunday Unfortunately on the way home, the O/S front caliper fell off! (luckily I was in the slow lane and next to an exit) I ended up being towed back by the AA.

On closer inspection today, I have found that the hub carrier where the caliper was attached had snapped off at the bottom (see photo) and another thing (sorry I'm not sure on the name of it yet) had popped out. Caliper looks like it needs an overhaul. Got the feeling this is going to be pricey, however the previous owner is willing to help out with the repair as she was devastated when I called her. I'm going to check the other side at the weekend (as the car is parked at a friends and I'm away with work).

Pics are here (I shall try figure out how to embed them properly) https://plus.google.com/photos/101625827898012052390/albums/6046453440037943649?authkey=CPnbp96mkcmItQE

Unfortunately my local lotus specialist is fully booked. I have another number to call but are just trying to work out what is needed first before booking it in somewhere else.
For now I'm thinking my list is:

O/S hub carrier (£100 on ebay)
Pads
Bushes (thinking I may as well do this)
Braided hoses (as the system will need bleeding)
Top and bottom ball joints
The other shiny thing that has popped out
refurbed calipers/or a kit
Brake fitting kit

I've got plenty of searching to do on here, so shall do that first. However any gotchas/advise given will be greatly appreciated also.

Apart from the above. Wow what a car! I can't wait to get it fixed and get back in it.

Thanks in advance.

Wayne

[epipete]

Hi, and welcome.

Where are you?

There is currently a used one on eBay @ £100 (or make an offer).
SJs are listing them at £100 (rh) and £88 (lh) but this is ex VAT and condition isn't stated

May be worth contacting Douglas Valley (Breakers)

[wayneg]

Hi, and welcome.

Where are you?

There is currently a used one on eBay @ £100 (or make an offer).
SJs are listing them at £100 (rh) and £88 (lh) but this is ex VAT and condition isn't stated

May be worth contacting Douglas Valley (Breakers)

Hi, I'm in Dudley, West Midlands.

Thanks for the info, I'll give try contacting both and go from there.

Cheers,

Wayne

[HJ2]

Welcome aboard!


Wow, some scary first owners experience, maybe we should start a thread with these!
I don't know for sure, but your upper wishbone looks a bit funny to me as well. I would check thoroughly before reassembly.

If you'd like, i have a set of non-refurbished but good working calipers in my Garage for a friendly price.
Also Peter Demaret (Belgium) might have the other parts that you want, all for a LEC friendly price as well.

However, when spending this much money, you 'd might also consider a brake upgrade (Hi-spec or so)

Best regards from the Netherlands,
Henk-Jan

[rip]

If you need to spend some money on the brakes anyway, consider Henk-Jan's suggestion of a brake upgrade very carefully. I would describe well maintained OEM brakes as just about acceptable, not good.

More importantly, I'm glad the fault did not cause you an injury or worse.

[Jamie N]

That must have caused some noise when it happened Wayne!, I bet you got a hell of a fright.
Check you're alloy wheel is still true after being hit like that though, unlikely but worth checking. Welcome to the Forum!.

Jamie.

[Brit-Car-Nut]

Why would anyone want to put USED parts on a suspension? If the donor car was in a wreck, they would possibly be compromised and if they are off a private scrapper, who knows that you won't have to replace everything because the parts are all worn out.

A NEW OS Hub Carrier J100C0034G(SP) is £105.89 + VAT from any Lotus Dealer. You will also need a front wheel bearing (your shop will probably have a favourite brand) and probably a front axle nut A100R6002F - £9.46 + VAT as most shops don't like to reuses the old one.

The Upper Ball Joint is F100C0058F(SP) and is currently £18.90 + VAT at any Lotus Dealer

The Lower Ball Joint is A100C6020F(SP) and is currently £31.56 + VAT

The (SP) designation means the parts are on the AfterSales List

The shiney part is most likely the caliper piston. Caliper rebuild kits are available from places like Paul Matty or SJS. Aftermarket replacement kits are also available.

The prices I quoted are from the NEW August 2014 Price Guide that was just released by Lotus.

It is probably best to take it to your repair shop and let them tell you what is needed since you don't want to get parts that are not required and don't want to miss other items that are...

[Fredjohn]

I presume by "your local Lotus specialist" you mean Paul Matty in Bromsgrove. If not give him a ring. They aren't the cheapest, but they do know their stuff.

Would also agree with HJ in that the top wishbone looks a bit suspect, although it could just be the damaged top ball-joint. Exchange refurbished calipers are available from a couple of websites, but as they don't appear to have stock, so they refurbish yours.

BUT if funds will allow I would also suggest you go the Hi-Spec (or Wilwood) route. Can't recall typical front reading for the OEM brakes, but at last MOT my Wilwoods were c340. (But see my Coast to Coast thread )

I am fairly close by, as is maz_r, and if you want to meet up we are having a Midlands meet on 21st Aug at the Coach and Horses just off M42. (See Midland meets thread)

[epipete]

Why would anyone want to put USED parts on a suspension? If the donor car was in a wreck, they would possibly be compromised .......

Nobody!!!! I merely pointed out where there was a known source, I didn't comment on quality - buyer beware!!! Furthermore at 7am I was unable to undertake any discussion with a dealer, wat wiv dem all bin closed like, err.

[dapinky]

Why would anyone want to put USED parts on a suspension? If the donor car was in a wreck, they would possibly be compromised .......

Nobody!!!! I merely pointed out where there was a known source, I didn't comment on quality - buyer beware!!! Furthermore at 7am I was unable to undertake any discussion with a dealer, wat wiv dem all bin closed like, err.

I think we need to re-think the logic here.....

...whilst I wouldn't endorse using safety-related items from an unknown source (like part-worn tyres etc), there is a clear demarkation from something which was replaced by choice, not necessity....

...ie, someone fitting upgrade parts would be a 'good' supplier of the old (used) part, if it was removed from a servicable vehicle, purely for cosmetic/performance gains.

A blanket "BO NOT FIT USED PARTS" isn't really a great statement (and I accept that those words wern't uctually used) - each to their own.

Otherwise, no-one would ever buy a second-hand car - using the same logic that you don't know how it has been treated.

Personally, in this case I would use a bit of common sence - some bits new, others S/H if not availlable new (at a reasonable cost).

The caliper I would suggest may well be damaged from it's impact with the wheel - so a S/H one may be the way to go (unless the upgrade is being considered) - but again, from a known source (ie, someone who has removed theirs to fit the upgrade) - even then, I'd recomend a new set of seals - they're Vauxhall parts and cheap enough - easy to do yourself as well!

The ball joints are cheap enough from Lotus (I got mine from South West Lotus).

The upper arms may be bent, but are probably okay - if not, I've got a set you can have for nowt as I replaced mine just for the hell of it when I did the front suspension (they are considered to be fairly bulletproof on the elan, and I've never known them fail - except in impact).

Are the hub uprights themselves an issue? or just the caliper bracket? - again, solid metal and easily assessed.

Front bearings are cheap(ish) at £15 a side, but fitting can be time consuming.

The hub nut is cheaper from anywhere other than Lotus - it's a standard size part and can be got from these guys - they're over by Brum Airport if you find yourself that side of town, but postage is cheap!

Dont forget the brake pipes - I hear you are considering braided ones, but check that the connection to the copper pipe is okay first (if not, it's only a short pipe to the master cylinder, and not too hard to replace).

[rip]

Also with braided hoses, you need to tie them safely out of the way.
Several have fitted them then found that they lose brake fluid because the pipes have chaffed on the wheel or disc.

[wayneg]

Thanks a lot for all of the help guys. It definitely gives me more to go on. I think I'll try and go for new parts where possible, however I'm thinking that the lotus festival may be worth a visit on Sunday also to see if anyone has any old stock at the auto jumbles.

I'm toying with the idea of upgrading the brakes (not that I wouldn't like to), however I know the kit comes in at around £690 for the high spec and don't want to find myself in the position of needing that money for something else when sorting the above, plus I have a petrol smell to sort too (wondering already if its the cracked tank) as all other parts were investigated a while ago looking at receipts and nothing found. Another subject anyway.

Well so far I have on my list:

Calipers refurb kit
Exchange calipers (thanks for the kind offer Henk-Jan, I shall come back to you on this )
Brake fitting kit
Brake Pads (Got a new set of Ferrodo for now)
Possible discs (I know a guy in QC who can check these)
Braided hoses (shall cable tie them properly thanks Rip)

or

Possible Hi Spec Brake Upgrade
Braided hoses

O/S Hub Carrier (Thanks for pointing me to the new and used parts Brit-Car-Nut and epipete)
X2 Front wheel bearings & circlips
x2 The Upper Ball Joint (thinking I'm best to do both sides)
x2 The Lower Ball Joint
X2 Balljoint, anti-roll bar to Track Control Arm (the mystery shiny bit, again I'm thinking pairs?)
X2 Bush, damper yoke (looks like the above goes through this)
Some more related bolts and nuts to the above
Possible Upper Arms (thanks for the kind offer Dave, I'll check them and come back to you )
New wheel (going to pick up a good used one on Sat)
Wire brush and paint

My friend has offered to help me do the work on it if I get the parts, so I'm quite lucky there.

Thanks again guys

Wayne

[Simon_P]

come come chaps! add a little context!

For me it is clear that BCN is saying

Why would anyone want to put USED parts on a suspension?

....when you can buy new ones from Lotus for a little more.

[A blanket "BO NOT FIT USED PARTS" isn't really a great statement (and I accept that those words wern't uctually used) - each to their own.

Why....? ! it was a question open to discussion... It wasn't a statement ..... it wasn't even a question statement ....was it? !

Wayne,

As BCN was saying - you can get most of the parts easily from Lotus - Also people forgot to mention many are from an Astra. You can get the ball joints from Lotus (I got absolutely rogered by South West Lotus!)

[dapinky]

Wayne,

Having seen the above list, I have a couple of observations (which may well save you time and/or money).....

The top ball joints are simple to change - as long as the bolts which pass through them aren't siezed - about 60-70% of elans i've done work on (in this area) have at least 1 seized bolt out of the 4

They are easy enough to grind the nut off and pull away with the ball joint (as they're being replaced anyway, it's easier than trying to remove them if they're solid) - bolts are one of 2 types - either a socket head bolt, or a 'standard' hex-head bolt - and it will depend on the ones fitted as to the nuts required.

They are also a 10.9 grade as opposed to the 'normal' high tensile 8.8 - so make sure you get the right sort, otherwise things may fall off when you're driving

Secondly, the anti-roll bar balljoint is a specially fabricated part - like a long bolt with a balljoint on the end of it - and Lotus prices will upset you when you see it! (Steve at SJ Sportscars does do an 'alternative' part for about half the price......

....but I have developed an even cheaper way of doing it (which is currently in use on a few elans, without any reported failures/problems).

Basically, it involves a 10.9 grade HT M12 bolt, 160mm long, a few M12 washers (or a fabricated spacer, if you're feeling adventurous), and a high-end (race spec) rod-end M12 male joint.

A pair of rod-ends will cost you about £20 (I can send you full details if you're interested on what you need and where to get them)....

......it's the bolts in the correct length and tensile strength which are the problem........





.....unless you have a few left in the garage from a bulk-buy which I got from abroad

As such, if you want to go this route, then I'll happily send you a couple of the bolts - so, all in, it'll be about £25 for both sides (if you need to buy a bag of stainless M12 washers)


Personally, I wouldn't worry about checking the discs on your car - I'd bin them and fit new ones - they are a standard Vauxhall/Daewoo part (Apec part number DSK518) and i pay just under a tenner each locally - or under £25 a pair delivered on ebay

[dapinky]

Simon,

Whilst I hear what you are saying - it appears thet it is YOU who is publishing the statements in an 'out-of-context' way....

...whilst I agree, one comment asks "why fit used when you can get new for a few quid more?" - and that makes perfect sense to me....

...however, other statements indicate that you shouldn't EVER wish to fit S/H suspension parts - and that is what I take issue with.


Also, I can't see how Phil at SW Lotus rogered you...... I paid £15 + VAT for my upper ball joints - however his webshop lists them at £56 - I just spoke to him on the phone, and he agreed to sell them me for the Lotus Aftersales price (I was getting stuff from Strattons anyway, but I was also getting stuff from him - so it made no difference to me where they came from).

Lower ball joints at SJ Sportscars are a pound-and-a-half cheaper than Lotus prices - but P&P takes it over their prices.... it all needs a bit of shopping around, as with all things.

If I'd just used one supplier with my suspension rebuild I'm pretty sure that my spending total would have been a fair few hundred quid more than it actually was - but using Lotus, SJ's & SWL (as well as a few other nut/bolt/odds&ends suppliers) - and then Coolex for the rad/header tank I saved a lot of cash - anyone who uses just one supplier has more money than sense (IMHO) - unless time is of the greatest importance......

[GeoffSmith]

Ouch!

If you'd like, i have a set of non-refurbished but good working calipers in my Garage for a friendly price.
Also Peter Demaret (Belgium) might have the other parts that you want, all for a LEC friendly price as well.

Exchange calipers (thanks for the kind offer Henk-Jan, I shall come back to you on this )

If you make it quick, Peter is going to be at Brands Hatch this weekend. So am I and I live in Bristol. But so is my son who lives in Redditch.

If you want to use the very reasonably priced (i.e. free) LEC courier service just ask.

[Nickydee]

Guys

In my opinion it is evident that whilst copious and good advice has been readily given and indeed generosity has been shown to a new member on this thread it has been marred by a series of unnecessary comments and point scoring.

It seems that these days the handbags come out more frequently and more readily on this site. I think that's a shame as up to now unlike many forums, LEC has up to now managed to stay relatively free of such antics. As i say this is only my opinion and an observation. I don't wish to fan the flames and for this thread to go completely off topic.

[alan e]

Wayne I have a used caliper and two discs you can have the discs have only done about 100 miles when I fitted the hi spec kit but the caliper was fitted to the car when I got it but was working OK when removed, if they are any good to you and you are sure you are going on Sunday I will put them in the boot let my know if you want them.
Alan

[wayneg]

Wayne,

Having seen the above list, I have a couple of observations (which may well save you time and/or money).....

The top ball joints are simple to change - as long as the bolts which pass through them aren't siezed - about 60-70% of elans i've done work on (in this area) have at least 1 seized bolt out of the 4

They are easy enough to grind the nut off and pull away with the ball joint (as they're being replaced anyway, it's easier than trying to remove them if they're solid) - bolts are one of 2 types - either a socket head bolt, or a 'standard' hex-head bolt - and it will depend on the ones fitted as to the nuts required.

They are also a 10.9 grade as opposed to the 'normal' high tensile 8.8 - so make sure you get the right sort, otherwise things may fall off when you're driving

Secondly, the anti-roll bar balljoint is a specially fabricated part - like a long bolt with a balljoint on the end of it - and Lotus prices will upset you when you see it! (Steve at SJ Sportscars does do an 'alternative' part for about half the price......

....but I have developed an even cheaper way of doing it (which is currently in use on a few elans, without any reported failures/problems).

Basically, it involves a 10.9 grade HT M12 bolt, 160mm long, a few M12 washers (or a fabricated spacer, if you're feeling adventurous), and a high-end (race spec) rod-end M12 male joint.

A pair of rod-ends will cost you about £20 (I can send you full details if you're interested on what you need and where to get them)....

......it's the bolts in the correct length and tensile strength which are the problem........





.....unless you have a few left in the garage from a bulk-buy which I got from abroad

As such, if you want to go this route, then I'll happily send you a couple of the bolts - so, all in, it'll be about £25 for both sides (if you need to buy a bag of stainless M12 washers)


Personally, I wouldn't worry about checking the discs on your car - I'd bin them and fit new ones - they are a standard Vauxhall/Daewoo part (Apec part number DSK518) and i pay just under a tenner each locally - or under £25 a pair delivered on ebay

Thanks again Dave, Yes I'd definitely be interested in how to do this and getting some of those bolts off of you.

I'll send you a PM to organise

Cheers

[wayneg]

[quote=]

Wayne,

As BCN was saying - you can get most of the parts easily from Lotus - Also people forgot to mention many are from an Astra. You can get the ball joints from Lotus (I got absolutely rogered by South West Lotus!)[/quote]

Thanks Simon