Wrong header seal?

[Megwenda]

Hi guys

Sometime ago I purchased a new header rail seal from Paul Mathys (see THIS thread)

FInally got around to having this fitted, but it 'looks' as though it may be too long as the corners stick out way past the windows, and also the angles of the ends don't match those of the intermediate seals.

Anyone able to say whether this looks right?

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Unfortunately its over a year since I ordered it, so probably haven't got any comeback.... but I just want to know if it is the right one, and if not, do I need to do anything

Regards
Dave

[Jamie N]

It does look like the proper one but for some reason has become elongated or stretched, Im sure if you emailed the pics to them they would sort you out with another.

[theelanman]

i think you may have an se hood and frame but have just fitted an s2 header seal

[theelanman]

the easiest way to determine whether you have an original hood or a new hard is to look at the rear of the side windows. on the original hood the drainage flap stops abruptly in the vertical position on the later s2 it returns along the body towards the rear window for about 2 to 3 inches

[Megwenda]

Hi Gareth

Oh dear, My drainage flap continues on for 2-3 inches!

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So, can it be that at sometime the car had a S2 hood fitted, and I have now fitted a SE seal (which is actually what I ordered based on the VIN)

From other posts I had the impression the S2 seal was the longer?

Regards
Dave

[theelanman]

No you're correct.... the S2 is long across the header.....
I thought you had an SE roof (short) with S2 seal (long) hence the difference.....
Looking at your pic you have S2 roof.....so seal would either fit it be too short....Not as it is, too long....mmmm
Wonder if your new roof had the SE frame and didn't change the header rail....

Might be a case of getting the tape measure out.....

[theelanman]

What was the part number pefix?....

[Megwenda]

p/n A100V0125H

And anything is possible, seeing as I have no history of the car

Will wait till my wife returns as it needs two to measure that distance, and then get the length

[theelanman]

Mmmm......A100 is an original SE part number but the hood material is for an S2.....
Very strange indeed

[Megwenda]

Maybe it is, as you suggest, an SE frame with a S2 hood on it, and maybe I was delivered a S2 header seal by mistake.

Reckon thats the only explanation that fits the facts (short frame, long seal, s2 type hood)?

Maybe my best solution will be to cut out a section of the seal in the center, and bond it with loctite 408?

[Megwenda]

Gareth,

mmmmmh, maybe I am looking at this from the wrong perspective.

Based on comments you made in THIS thread, the S2 seal was designed to be longer so that it overlaps the window (presumably to prevent leakage).

This effect can be seen in my photos. So maybe I need to accept it as an improvement, and somehow ensure that all seals provide the same effect.

Would I need to get a S2 header rail to go with the seal?

What do you think?

Dave

[Jamie N]

Dave, if you do try to cut a section out , try joining a piece of the old seal first as the sponge seals are not that easy to join and make it look good, chances are you will end up with a very visible join, also are the side parts bolted in place in your picture?, as they look to be sitting at a different angle to the intermediate.
Personally if it was mine I would modify it for a neater fit as the overhang looks excessive, kind of like its wearing a hat , you don't need a massive overhang to make it watertight, an example below, trimmed very tightly and monsoon proof .

[Megwenda]

Heard back from Paul Mattys, and their experts suggest that the seal was stretched during fitting... looking at all the input, I tend to agree with them

Hopefully simply taking it off, and refitting it might sort the problem out

I take what you say about getting a clean cut/join..... fortunately only a very small piece of the seal is actually visible when the hood is closed. In addition, I would not do a 90º cut, but rather scarf it over about 5-10cm so that closing the hood would press the joint together. {edit... actually, seeing as it is only 2-3cm too long on each side, max scarf I could do would be 4-6cm}

Otherwise I will be asking questions on how to make a complete rubber set... mmmh, I wonder who would know

[Megwenda]

OK, so I spoke to the guys who fitted the seal...
They say that the seal was so tight, that they had to stretch it slightly in order for the corner of the seal to come backwards... that is, to get the inside corner of the seal to fit onto the seal carrier.

I took the side seal carrier off one of the cantrail, and carefully detached the header seal ... sure enough, the corner of the seal is tight against the corner of the header rail carrier (last pic probably shows it off best).

Looking at the way the header rail fits on top of the windscreen, it looks as though the header rail is too long... This could be explained by the fact that it is an S2 top... so presumably also a S2 carrier rail

Does anyone have any idea of the length of the header rail carrier? The only way to make the seal fit tighter would be to cut the header rail shorter.

Also, a bead of rtv732 was used to bond the header rail seal to the carrier... what chance do I have of getting the seal of the rail without breaking it? If I could achieve that, I could cut a bit off each end of carrier rail to match the size of the windscreen.

Or maybe I am making too much work for myself?

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[theelanman]

Id be tempted to take it back and ask them to do it.....
also how do you close the door with the hood up?....
from your pic it doesn't fit at all....never mind just a bit of overhang.....

[Megwenda]

Trouble is, they did the respray... and as a favor, fitted the seals free.... and cursed the day they agreed to do it, as it took them a lot of hours of no charge labour
There is no ways they would be prepared to invest more time... and it isn't really their fault at all, its simply the header rail is too long, so it overhangs, and pushes the seals past the windscreen

Photo's are taken with the hood folded down into the storage compartment (maybe that's why it doesn't seem to fit at all ).

[theelanman]

what about this pic?.....
as for the header rail.......it is correct for and S2 hood......
the seal however is SE......so they stretched the SE seal to fit the S2 hood.....
the S2 header rail was longer than that of the SE......
think you may have to bite the bullet and either do it yourself or get someone else to do it and pay for it.....

[Megwenda]

I open only the drivers door, and that very carefully while supporting the seals.. pax door is only opened after top is folded, or window is down
(car is not being used during the rebuild).

I used lots of spacers to get the drivers seal to at least allow opening the door

Yup, I think I will have to do it myself... at least get it more or less right, and then plan to bring it to the uk to have it fixed properly.

The question is what to do... the SE seal is now the same size as the S2 rail, so if there is overlap, its because the S2 rail is too long?? Should I therefore cut the rail?

How do other SE users manage to fit a S2 hood? Does it have adapter plates?

[theelanman]

Im afraid I cant answer that......
when I had my hood done on my SE it was done by TrimTech and they replaced the whole roof (including fabric, frame and seals) with a new S2 version.....

[Megwenda]

Yup, this car appears to have a 'whole job' done to it to migrate to a new S2 hood, but I don't think it was done properly... unfortunately when I got it the corners were already damaged, so I have no way of knowing.

OK, removed header seal ... with only a very slight bit of damage where the outer skin had stuck to the soft-top fabric (see pic 7). Not sure why there was any glue there, maybe just a bit of overflow or something

The header seal seems to have resumed its proper length

The following foto's show more clearly where the problems are (or, where I think they are, as I have never seen how it should be when correct )

Photo 1 and 2 show header seal removed, but carrier rail still on... the corners seem to be too long for the top?

Photo 3 (and close up 4 and 5) shows the carrier on top of the seal, the right side was aligned up where I think it should go on the seal (photo 5), and the left shows quite a bit of overlap. The carrier rail is actually a fraction shorter than the total outside length of the header seal

Photo 5 and 6 show that the seal appears to have a diagonal area for the carrier to fit in, however the rail is cut at 90°
Actually, the seal was fitted to the carrier with the ends similar to position 5 (maybe even a bit more stretched so the corners could go around)

If I position the outer corner of the rail in the diagonal area on both sides (as in photo 6), then it appears to be the same length as the seal.

The last two photo's show the soft top without any header rail or seal. When I compare this to the pic in Jamies post, even the front of the hood is too wide The outside edge of his hood fabric seems to be matched to the line of the windscreen. Of course, that could be the S2 feature and thats how it should look with a S2 hood

My first guess would be to cut the carrier so that it fits into the indentations to the seal, then put it together with the side carriers, and see how it fits