New topics discussion.

[dapinky]

Thank you for the information on searching the forum John,

I have started a Wiki page using your post as a basis which people will hopefully add to.

Apart from the quotation marks most of it was new to me ... particularly the asterisk on short words which I was reading for the first time.

Ray

With my tongue as far into my cheek as I gan get it, I state this:-

If you use the search function and enter the term "search" - one of the results would come up as this post (admittedly, I sort of cheated as I knew it was there ('cos I posted it!) and I found it by searching for a far less common word than 'search' )

[Simon_P]

agree that efforts need to be made to minimize the occurance of the same question being asked in multiple forums and topics by the same poster at the same time (or day).

John, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. It is the you must not start a new thread until you have thoroughly read the archive, workshop manual, and wiki stance that grates.



I say have a quick look and then post your question. Heck we will always have questions about brakes, cambelts ,exhausts, CAS, CTS, etc and we could take bets on how long before the next "Help I've locked my keys in the boot" post. Some people choose not to answer - equally fine!

I think that we should be at liberty to post what we like when we choose to - Subject of course to the normal standards of decency and respect, and in the right area if you can manage it! - Does anyone still disagree?

[theelanman]

re the WIKI

it is open and available for all to post in with their write ups, helpful hints, cross references etc.........

please feel free to write it up and publish it to the WIKI

it is not for the few to post but for all who wish to contribute......


it is also a good place to look.......if you need help..........

[Simon_P]

it is open and available for all to post in with their write ups, helpful hints, cross references etc.........

That is good to hear, as it was closed to all for a while.

[dapinky]

Does anyone still disagree?

Nope - I think we got to the point where we all agree with the expected behavioural competencies of any post/poster a while ago, and also that tidying up *some* duplicated postings is 'Good Housekeeping'....

.... There are always going to be those who relish the technical challenge of searching a database for an answer, and always those who will never make any effort to find the answers.

Most users on here fall into the middle ground, which is about average - (see what I did there?) for any Forum.

I believe that THIS forum is one of the most helpful I've seen/been involved with, and as long as people are prepared to help others, then there will always be questions asked - I'm happy with that!

I also fully understand Johns' point about 'jovial banter' sometimes detracting from the thrust of a thread (and I differentiate between 'banter' and 'offensive arguing' - the former remains, the latter is Moderated as soon as I see it!!!).

This was (is?) the point of having a Wiki - the good information can be stored by ANYONE (many members seem to believe that only Moderators can enter stuff - this is incorrect - anyone can gain membership permissions and add/edit an entry).

{and , Ray, I've taken the liberty of adding the link I referred to above to the Wiki page you started, and also putting another "Header" on the Wiki entitled 'Search The Forum' which simply redirects to your page}

Unfortunately, I think that the reality of the current situation is that the only people who are likely to read this post are those who have already got involved, and of those, I am aware that John & Simon were previously aware of Boolean Operators, Ray has understood it and put it in the Wiki, and Pete is still ducking for cover from something which was never fired at him

Edit - beaten by the speed of Gareth.... initial permission has to be given, which can be fairly instant if the man with the right access is online, to anyone - this is purely a filter to keep out the trolls - and then it's 'free' access

[maz_r]

Given that we have a pretty vanilla install of PHPBB, folks might find this useful?

(and with my cheekiest face on, it took me all of 5 seconds to find that page via Google.....)

Also, you can use Google itself to search the site by putting "site:forum.lotuselancentral.com <my search here>" into google search (which I know some already do, but it might be of assistance to those who weren't aware). This might be of interest...

[GeoffSmith]

I had a long battle with a couple of previous LEC moderators to get a Wiki set up within LEC. The argument was that anyone could then go into it and change stuff, in way that the Wikipedia entry for Elvis periodically says that he's alive and well and working at Burger King in Romford.

Luckily GoogleAl set one up and started hosting it and Sy agreed to having the link incorporate within LEC. It is meant to be the LEC (in the most collective of senses as anyone can add/amend it as they see fit) repository of authoritative, up-to-date, technical information which is openly available and without it becoming an onerous task for a few people. The Wiki has a lot of information. The search facility is good. There is no banter or spam to wade through. Inputting information is a bit tedious but not intrinsically hard and I spent a hell of a lot of time and effort in the early days in getting information onto the Wiki and have tried to point people at it when questions are asked for which there are Wiki answers.

Please, if questions are asked then tell/remind people about the Wiki. If there is additional useful technical information discussed on LEC, then try and encourage someone to take on the task of getting it committed to the Wiki.... or even have a go yourself - you may surprise yourself! It is only by collectively working on it that it will develop without becoming a burden. Rant over.

[rip]

It is the you must not start a new thread until you have thoroughly read the archive, workshop manual, and wiki stance that grates.

I think this has been slightly mis-understood. A direct answer to an issue is often useful & not objected to.
Multiple postings asking exactly the same thing (sometimes in different sections, one of which is therefore unhelpful) is annoying. Also, sometimes we may get a problem which we know somebody will definitely have asked before. A search will find an answer more quickly than asking a question & awaiting a reply.

I think that we should be at liberty to post what we like when we choose to - Subject of course to the normal standards of decency and respect, and in the right area if you can manage it! - Does anyone still disagree?

The incident which prompted this thread was one with a self-mocking title (I think it was 'Muppet') asking a technical question. The poster was asked politely more than once by a moderator to change the thread heading to something more descriptive by amending the 1st post. This was ignored & they wondered why moderators were getting upset.

& as for the wiki: The more who contribute, the better it gets. It also keeps its structure & you can delete things which are inaccurate or become irrelevant rather than a forum of threads which eventually slide off to 'Somewhere on page X'.

A busy unmoderated forum becomes a mess & makes it difficult to find anything. The moderators are striving to prevent LEC from becoming like this.

[Simon_P]

Hi rip,

I think you have slightly misunderstood.

No one is objecting to inappropriate language being moderated. Besides the poster did change the title as requested before it was deleted.

If Ray has felt unable to start a new topic in 6 years Then I think there is a problem - And that is what this thread is about.

[RayD]

Thank you for your input Iain,(Rip)

If there’s any misunderstanding it will be down to me failing to explain it properly.

The thing to do now is try to make the idea work rather than it be hovering in the background.

I do realise when its working perfectly and people find their own solutions we won’t be able to tell.

I’m less concerned about it than I was. People I know personally can see the merit in both opinions so it can’t be as bad as I thought.

I don’t need to be able to start any new topics myself.

Ray

[RayD]

I've just applied my newly acquired search knowledge to Pete's question about "Dipped Beam Settings" and got the same result.

When anyone has time could they have a go and tell me which thread he should have posed his question ... in preference to starting a new topic.

And if Pete's question turns out to be a bad example could you choose another one from the list and suggest its relevant thread, then step by step instructions can then be added to the Wiki.

Thanks

Ray

[epipete]

I was going to keep quiet but my conscience won't let me, on page one of my thread concerning 'Headlamp motor removal', I asked a question regarding wiring of the H4 bulb (I had searched the topic but remained confused) and received several very helpful tips, I then, subsequently (having forgotten about this answer), opened another thread (Dipped Beam Settings) querying the strange lighting problem being experienced, again, only to find that the question had effectively been answered in the previous thread!

I shall go and flagellate myself, but I make this confession to illustrate how easy it is to get carried away on physical activities at the accidental expense of forum protocol

Furthermore, (my shame knows no limits) I raised the Dipped Beam query in the 'Problems - Need Help' section whilst the 'Headlamp Motor Removal' post was opened in the 'Electronics / stereo / lights' area

Patently, I got something wrong here, so which would be correct protocol?

Pete

[dapinky]

Patently, I got something wrong here, so which would be correct protocol?

Pete (and equally applicable to Ray!) - to expand this thought process, I received a PM a few days ago from a new member (who I shall not name, as it's not entirely relevant) - but his question IS relevant, and was possibly brought on by this (or one of the previously cited) thread...

Basically, he had some information which he wanted to put on the forum (and it has since appeared) and wanted to know where to put it - this was an alien concept to me, as I hadn't really had occassion to consider such a query before, but it remains valid, so I thought about it....

.... and came to the conclusion that I didn't know a 'definative' answer

I don't think that every question or post definately belongs in a particular thread/topic heading - it is just a case of selecting where you think it should be.

Some are obvious (by their content) but others could fit equally into any one of a few threads.

As it was a question which I hadn't thought about in the past 9 years, I can only conclude that it isn't overly important in the greater scheme of things - maybe I'm in a different position to many, and tend to read every post on the forum ("Unread Posts" is my home page) for interest, in case I can help, and if I may need to 'Moderate' - I often don't even look at the hierarchial menu to see where such things are placed (whilst others do, and then move them to somewhere more appropriate).

As such, it has never worried me - but I can see the concern about "Am I doing it right?" - and don't know the answer

The serach function is only ever going to be as good as the original information being entered (nearly) correctly - and the more search terms are included, the less answers will be revealed, and the one helpful post *may* elude you.

I think that if we continue to operate as we have done, all will work out for the best (fingers crossed).

For any issue that NEEDS urgent answers (vehicle stranded/keys lost/ problem you can't fix), then by all means post in multiple threads, but be prepared to have them amalgamated in due course once the imediate problem is resolved - that just seems like common sense to me, but what do I know?

[epipete]

.... and came to the conclusion that I didn't know a 'definative' answer

Now I know where to put that - 'Things that made me smile today'

[Tuga2112]

Just to get it in perspective. The word could on this thread of 7 pages is about 60,000 characters. By way of a very approximate comparison, the picture of the Lotus trainers is about 60kB. Talk is comparatively cheap!

Nike trainers !.jpg

[SPAM WARNING]
they say a picture is worth a thousand words... now you definatly proved them wrong there geoff... i gotta admit a thousand words wouldn't describe those...."personalities" as well as the picture.

Back on the topic

In a forum with so much information the search tool can be a killer for any new member, specially if you dont know the exact terminology to describe the problem.
For instance, when i joined my "weatherstrip" was called "door seal", "window seal" and "door window seal", who else would post a new thread asking for help ?
By the way, did you guys realize that in this post i have added 1 helpful search quote for anyone looking for help with weatherstrips and 3 unhelpful search quotes related to door and window seals ?

My point is, the nature of the forum will lead to a search tool that is dificult to use for a new member. which in turn generates new topics. fighting that tendency is dificult or even impossible.