Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby dapinky » Sun 12.04.2015, 11:14

Just to address the above post, and to put it into a 'usable perspective'.....

Back in the early '70's there were only 3 speed ratings for radial tyres (commonly) - and cross-plys were the 'standard' on many cars from the manufacturers, and they had their own set of ratings which I won't go into, as it's not relevant.

Basically, they were either SR, VR or ZR tyres - SR were good for up to 113mph, VR up to 130mph, and ZR for over 130mph.

At the time, the Con & Use Regs (which have since changed, but the basic thought [& Legality] process remains the same) dictated that a vehicle can only get Type Approval, and therefore be good to use on a UK road, if it was fitted with tyres which were suitable for it.

This included a weight index for a full capacity, and a speed rating suitable for that cars' maximum speed (irrellevant of any limits in the destination market).

The Scimitar is an awkward car to use as a reference point, as the various models produced 'maximum speeds' of 117mph, or 110mph, depending on the engine used - the straight 6 2.6 engine gave 117mph, but when the 2.5 V6 was fitted it dropped to 110mph - this enabled the factory to sell them cheaper as (amongst other things) they could get away with cheaper tyres (VR were expensive in those days)....

... once Reliant had built up a good reputation and customer base, they increased the engine capacity to 3.0, and the top speed was back to 118mph, and VR tyres were again fitted.

Many owners (not just of Scimitars, but loads of other cars of the time) still used the cheaper SR tyres as a Service Replacement on the 'faster' cars as they didn't personally go at max speed - but should they ever come to sell the car, it would have been illegal (and an arguable case in event of an insurance claim).

At that time, remould tyres were also in their infancy (for Radials, although they had been common on X-Ply for years) - and they were notorious for falling apart at speed as heat caused the tread area to peel away from the carcass - this no longer applies as they are now made in a totally different way, not just with new tread stuck onto the outside of a worn tyre!

Anyway, as time went on, other 'Speed Ratings' were introduced - firstly HR, then WR then every other letter of the alphabet!! - each with their own Speed capability.....

...Then the "R" part of the notation was dropped, as it only ever showed the tyre to be a Radial in the days when there were other options.

(I've totally ignored Bias-Belted tyres in this post as they were never fitted in the UK - and appologise to any of our Colonial Cousins who think of them as a 'Standard' tire :wink: )

The ratings are NOT the speed that they can be driven at (surprisingly!), but the speed that they can be driven at for 60 minutes, with 125% of Maximum Weight applied, and 5 minutes with 200% of Maximum Weight - as long as they remain good, then they pass the test and achieve the appropriate Rating - this was to simulate the cornering forces likely to be encountered.

[The system may well have changed again in the meantime, but no doubt it ain't gonna be any simpler!].

As such, it was technically illegal to use a Scimiter with SR tyres - but with the weights involved, at UK driving speed, would be unlikely to ever cause a problem.... however, I fully agree that the remoulds (in those days) would make the driver the "'king idiot" you mention :D

Moving on to the Elan..... were now into the late '80s/early '90s and tyre technology has improved (along with availability), but the UK Law remains the same - it must be sold with tyres suitable for its maximum speed....

...hence the different speed ratings for tyres on an NA to those on an SE (and how many of you are now looking at the Owners Handbook and thinking, "I never knew they were different!" :lol: )

Again, at that time, we only had the 3 common choices of SR, VR and ZR - so the SE HAD to have ZR tyres, whilst the NA could get away with VR.

.... and then it got complicated, as most mainstream car manufacturers got onto the same bandwagon of producing cars which went faster.....

....but they had to remain price competetive....

and so, other tyre ratings were developed - most notably HR which fit nicely between SR and VR, with a maximum speed of 125mph - crucially, even though it is only a 5mph difference, the cost to produce them is a hell of a lot less than a VR tyre - and so it became the tyre of choice for many manufacturers - and even in those days, many cars left the factory with a top speed of under the magic 125mph just to get the cheaper tyres fitted, and give them the edge over the competion - after all, 1mph of speed isn't noticable to the customer, but a £400 saving is!!!

Okay then, so back to the main point of my contention - what do we need to fit to our Elans NOW......

To remain "fully legal" we need to have a speed rating of at least "W" (and lets be honest, how many tyres can you find for sale at the size we need in a 'low speed rating' - they just aren't made/sold in the EU, although some other markets *may* have them - hence always check imported tyres!!!)

And this also make perfect sense - they are designed for the speed of the car - and with so many 'chipped' cars out there, even more so.

Can we legally use a tyre with a "V" rating??? - yes and no - yes, you can buy and fit them - no, you can't sell a car with them fitted.

What is the safety implication? - TBH, it'll make little difference - with the weight of the Elan, the tyre shouldn't get 'over limit' even after flat-out driving down the road all day.

Is it 'worth while'? - to me, no - but to you, it may be. Actually there are actually quite a few "Track day" tyres availlable in this sizing, and I'd rather use a Yokohama A048 on an Elan than a part-worn ZR tyre of any make ;-) ;-)

How about "H" rated tyres?......

Again, as long as you drive within the limits of the tyre, you can fit them, but not sell them.

S?

You won't find many - and those that you can buy are clearly marketed as a 'Winter' tyre.

So, what are we left with?

Do we need a "Z" rated tyre - NO

We need at least a "W" rated tyre - and these are easily available now, but were not when the Handbook was written.

So, I don't say that youre wrong, Phill to use a "Z" rated tyre (and that's what I've got on mine!) - but to call someone a "king idiot" for using a perfectly acceptable "W" rated tyre isn't (IMHO) appropriate..... and the jury is out on "V" rated ones....

..... there again, if you were meaning something totally out of the ball park, I'd agree with you. (even though you can buy/fit Winter tyres and drive at speeds up to 113 mph quite legally)
Dave

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...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby muley » Sun 12.04.2015, 16:09

Or see here..

http://www.tyresave.co.uk/tyrspeed.html

Seems it is legal to use a 'lesser-rated' tyre.

V copes up to 240 k.p.h. or 150 m.p.h. Should be fine on paper,

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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby epipete » Sun 12.04.2015, 19:12

dapinky wrote:Just to address the above post, and to put it into a 'usable perspective'.....


Dave. I never fail to be both amazed by your knowledge and gratified by you presence and advice on (and off) this forum. However, despite the great background information I remain confused (are you surprised 8) ) in respect of what can be safely and legally used.

It seems that there are 3 issues:
1. Will the tyre fit? - I think that it is clear that the 205/50/15 fits all our SE's so the this question is answered! Which leaves the remaining contention being the matter of the speed rating.
2. Will its fitment fulfill legal requirements
3. Will its fitment and useage fulfill insurance obligations

You state (a little quirkily):

dapinky wrote:Can we legally use a tyre with a "V" rating??? - yes and no - yes, you can buy and fit them - no, you can't sell a car with them fitted.

What is the safety implication? - TBH, it'll make little difference - with the weight of the Elan, the tyre shouldn't get 'over limit' even after flat-out driving down the road all day.

Is it 'worth while'? - to me, no - but to you, it may be.


Why? (honestly, I'm not having a go.). Why might it be good enough for the generic 'me' but not the specific 'you'?

And so ....

dapinky wrote:So, what are we left with?

and the jury is out on "V" rated one's...
Do we need a "Z" rated tyre?
We need at least a "W" rated tyre.


Why is the jury out on the 'V's' - they fit, they're not going to exceed legal useage on UK roads and any insurance claim should demonstrate the speed were within tyre tolerance at the time of incident. Why, again, particularly as so many folks on here are using that size?

Jims's post seems to support the useage but then it caveats with 'should be fine on paper' :banghead:

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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby dapinky » Sun 12.04.2015, 19:57

Pete,

To clarify (hopefully!) -

I wouldn't use V rated tyres, as they don't make my tyre of choice in a V rating (only a W or Z) - but that doesn't meant that I wouldn't if they did! - nowt wrong with them at all! (as I said, the A048 are availlable in that rating, and would be my choice if I did more track time than road time) - one of those (which would be totally legal on an NA) would get me a few seconds a lap off of Castle Combe - possibly making an NA quicker round the track than an SE????

The bit about 'selling' a car with them fitted only applies to a dealer - not a private sale, so not a big issue to us here..... any trader selling a car to a member of the public has to comply with the correct legislation as if it were a new car (ie, must be Road Legal and comply with C&U Regs) - although it may slip through the net.

As far as Insurance goes - can't see it being an issue at all. As long as the car isn't wearing SR tyres and belting down an Autoroute at 130mph!

Basically, what I'd say is "If the tyre (make/model) of choice is only available as a V rated tyre, then by all means buy, fit and use them - but the ones I like (Yokohama AD08) also come in a W or Z rated tyre, so I went for them"

I personally have no problem with using a good V rated tyre for normal use - and it will be "better" than an older Z rated one.

Does that help at all????

Edit - having followed Jims link, it shows that V rating is good for a higher speed than I quoted earlier - but I was using my faded memory (and in my defense, other websites do show different 'limits') - but again, I wouldn't have a problem with using them - but I wouldn't fit H rated tyres for road/track use under any circumstance - a little too marginal for my liking :?
Dave

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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby muley » Sun 12.04.2015, 19:58

epipete wrote:Do we need a "Z" rated tyre?
We need at least a "W" rated tyre.
Why is the jury out on the 'V's' - they fit, they're not going to exceed legal useage on UK roads and any insurance claim should demonstrate the speed were within tyre tolerance at the time of incident. Why, again, particularly as so many folks on here are using that size?

Jims's post seems to support the useage but then it caveats with 'should be fine on paper' :banghead:

Pete


Sorry about that - didn't want to be sued by past owners of the Elans I've had = 6 and still counting :) All of them had V rated tyres on - without exception!

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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby dapinky » Sun 12.04.2015, 20:06

Jim, you're fine :wink:

Either way, the Z rated tyres were only OE fittment due to the regs in force at the time of manufacture, coupled with availability options back in time - now there is far more choice of suitable black rubber things...... pay your money and make your choice 8)
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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby Fredjohn » Sun 12.04.2015, 20:14

Pete

The top speed of the Elan is 132mph: I think we all recognise this and it is what appears as the "supplied" data on Autotrader ads. The V rating speed max according to both Tyresave and Black Circles websites is 240kph, or 149/150mph.

So surely it is therefore perfectly OK to fit a tyre with a V rating as the car's max speed is within the max speed rating of the V tyre.
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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby epipete » Sun 12.04.2015, 21:11

Thanks Guys, I am reassured. :D

And Jim, I suspected so, and empathise with your caution :P
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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby dapinky » Sun 12.04.2015, 21:54

To try and clarify a bit more (at risk of making things far worse :( )......

....when tyre designations changed from the 'old' UK/Australian SR, VR & ZR to the EU designations of S, H, V, W, Y, Z etc the speed limits changed a bit!

before then, they were listed in mph speeds, and afterwards, at kph speeds - so there is a slight mathematical inequality anyway.

They also changed the range for "V" tyres to a higher limit, and introduced the new "H" designation to fill the gap.....

Therefore, the Handbook was correct at the time, but now doesn't fit in with the same letters that are availlable.

So, you can safely (and legally) use "V" rated tyres, but if they were made before 1994 and have "VR" as the rating, then they *may* be illegal - but even if not, are too old to be safely used on our cars today (due to age degradation).
Dave

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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby Fredjohn » Sun 12.04.2015, 22:20

The team of amateur LEC sleuths ably led by DCI Pink finally solve "The Mystery of the V Rating".

Pete I hope you enjoy your Toyos!!
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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby dapinky » Sun 12.04.2015, 22:25

John, whilst I appreciate the promotion - I was "only" a DS when I retired - - I still worked for a living :roll:
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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby lotusflasherman » Sun 12.04.2015, 22:35

dapinky wrote:Just to address the above post, and to put it into a 'usable perspective'.....

Back in the early '70's there were only 3 speed ratings for radial tyres (commonly) - and cross-plys were the 'standard' on many cars from the manufacturers, and they had their own set of ratings which I won't go into, as it's not relevant.

Basically, they were either SR, VR or ZR tyres - SR were good for up to 113mph, VR up to 130mph, and ZR for over 130mph.

At the time, the Con & Use Regs (which have since changed, but the basic thought [& Legality] process remains the same) dictated that a vehicle can only get Type Approval, and therefore be good to use on a UK road, if it was fitted with tyres which were suitable for it.

This included a weight index for a full capacity, and a speed rating suitable for that cars' maximum speed (irrellevant of any limits in the destination market).

The Scimitar is an awkward car to use as a reference point, as the various models produced 'maximum speeds' of 117mph, or 110mph, depending on the engine used - the straight 6 2.6 engine gave 117mph, but when the 2.5 V6 was fitted it dropped to 110mph - this enabled the factory to sell them cheaper as (amongst other things) they could get away with cheaper tyres (VR were expensive in those days)....

... once Reliant had built up a good reputation and customer base, they increased the engine capacity to 3.0, and the top speed was back to 118mph, and VR tyres were again fitted.

Many owners (not just of Scimitars, but loads of other cars of the time) still used the cheaper SR tyres as a Service Replacement on the 'faster' cars as they didn't personally go at max speed - but should they ever come to sell the car, it would have been illegal (and an arguable case in event of an insurance claim).

At that time, remould tyres were also in their infancy (for Radials, although they had been common on X-Ply for years) - and they were notorious for falling apart at speed as heat caused the tread area to peel away from the carcass - this no longer applies as they are now made in a totally different way, not just with new tread stuck onto the outside of a worn tyre!

Anyway, as time went on, other 'Speed Ratings' were introduced - firstly HR, then WR then every other letter of the alphabet!! - each with their own Speed capability.....

...Then the "R" part of the notation was dropped, as it only ever showed the tyre to be a Radial in the days when there were other options.

(I've totally ignored Bias-Belted tyres in this post as they were never fitted in the UK - and appologise to any of our Colonial Cousins who think of them as a 'Standard' tire :wink: )

The ratings are NOT the speed that they can be driven at (surprisingly!), but the speed that they can be driven at for 60 minutes, with 125% of Maximum Weight applied, and 5 minutes with 200% of Maximum Weight - as long as they remain good, then they pass the test and achieve the appropriate Rating - this was to simulate the cornering forces likely to be encountered.

[The system may well have changed again in the meantime, but no doubt it ain't gonna be any simpler!].

As such, it was technically illegal to use a Scimiter with SR tyres - but with the weights involved, at UK driving speed, would be unlikely to ever cause a problem.... however, I fully agree that the remoulds (in those days) would make the driver the "'king idiot" you mention :D

Moving on to the Elan..... were now into the late '80s/early '90s and tyre technology has improved (along with availability), but the UK Law remains the same - it must be sold with tyres suitable for its maximum speed....

...hence the different speed ratings for tyres on an NA to those on an SE (and how many of you are now looking at the Owners Handbook and thinking, "I never knew they were different!" :lol: )

Again, at that time, we only had the 3 common choices of SR, VR and ZR - so the SE HAD to have ZR tyres, whilst the NA could get away with VR.

.... and then it got complicated, as most mainstream car manufacturers got onto the same bandwagon of producing cars which went faster.....

....but they had to remain price competetive....

and so, other tyre ratings were developed - most notably HR which fit nicely between SR and VR, with a maximum speed of 125mph - crucially, even though it is only a 5mph difference, the cost to produce them is a hell of a lot less than a VR tyre - and so it became the tyre of choice for many manufacturers - and even in those days, many cars left the factory with a top speed of under the magic 125mph just to get the cheaper tyres fitted, and give them the edge over the competion - after all, 1mph of speed isn't noticable to the customer, but a £400 saving is!!!

Okay then, so back to the main point of my contention - what do we need to fit to our Elans NOW......

To remain "fully legal" we need to have a speed rating of at least "W" (and lets be honest, how many tyres can you find for sale at the size we need in a 'low speed rating' - they just aren't made/sold in the EU, although some other markets *may* have them - hence always check imported tyres!!!)

And this also make perfect sense - they are designed for the speed of the car - and with so many 'chipped' cars out there, even more so.

Can we legally use a tyre with a "V" rating??? - yes and no - yes, you can buy and fit them - no, you can't sell a car with them fitted.

What is the safety implication? - TBH, it'll make little difference - with the weight of the Elan, the tyre shouldn't get 'over limit' even after flat-out driving down the road all day.

Is it 'worth while'? - to me, no - but to you, it may be. Actually there are actually quite a few "Track day" tyres availlable in this sizing, and I'd rather use a Yokohama A048 on an Elan than a part-worn ZR tyre of any make ;-) ;-)

How about "H" rated tyres?......

Again, as long as you drive within the limits of the tyre, you can fit them, but not sell them.

S?

You won't find many - and those that you can buy are clearly marketed as a 'Winter' tyre.

So, what are we left with?

Do we need a "Z" rated tyre - NO

We need at least a "W" rated tyre - and these are easily available now, but were not when the Handbook was written.

So, I don't say that youre wrong, Phill to use a "Z" rated tyre (and that's what I've got on mine!) - but to call someone a "king idiot" for using a perfectly acceptable "W" rated tyre isn't (IMHO) appropriate..... and the jury is out on "V" rated ones....

..... there again, if you were meaning something totally out of the ball park, I'd agree with you. (even though you can buy/fit Winter tyres and drive at speeds up to 113 mph quite legally)


Dave,

You're not quite right on some of your history ... my brother-in-law worked for Pirelli in late 60's so I had lots of lectures on how great Cinturatos were ... 'the original radial tyre, blah,bblah, blah' . I put up with it as I got a Pirelli Calendar every year.. :clap: They originally came out as VR & HR and the SR only appeared when Cinturatos were being marketed to 'boy racers' in small saloons ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirelli_Cinturato

In that era most Scimitar owners had GTE's with 3 litre V6 Essex, a few the later 2.8 V6 Cologne, so HR tyres were the norm. (The Scimitar coupe with straight 6 was a bit like the NA on this forum - they existed but not that many).
In fact HR were only one grade below VR (but 3 up from SR) and VR could be cheaper than HR as tyre shops sold more of them so gave bigger discounts. 'Mr Plod' was stressing they were 'performance ratings', not just speed, but were usually quoted as a speed rating - this was confirmed by my brother-in law. In those days a lot of information was coded on the tyres but codes were not the same for all manufacturers. There's a lot more unified info on them these days.

I agree that our Construction & Use Regs have been replaced, or amended, by various EU directives, which is why most people drive at 63mph thinking they are doing 70mph, but that's another story...

In the UK traffic cops have all but disappeared and been replaced by 'boxes on posts' or 'lurkers in vans' so what tyres motorists fit and how much tread they have does not seem to be policed in any way, except at MOT time, but have an accident and you may find out how pedantic insurance companies are that manufacturers spec should be complied with. There's an example here about fitting winter tyres - bit tricky when some manufacturers are not specific on the issue.
https://www.abi.org.uk/~/media/Files/Documents/Publications/Public/Migrated/Motor/ABI%20guide%20to%20winter%20tyres%20The%20motor%20insurance%20commitment.pdf

I'll leave it to others to decide whether they will fit ZR or not. My first SE, that was not chipped, but boosted to about .8 bar on the gauge, hit the rev limiter in 5th on a cool, damp overnight run through France. Frightened the life out of me as I thought I'd blown the engine but it kicked back in at about 110mph. When I got back I went through the manuals and found rev-limiter is set at 7,200rpm and cuts the ignition supply and fuel pump and 7,200 rpm in 5th is 150.4 mph.

As most German Autobahns are not speed restricted German Police are very hot on tyre ratings to manufacturers spec' and have onboard access to a database of manufacturers' specifications. My business partner has a UK bought and serviced Porsche Carrera 4S and had an issue with German Police who were talking about an on the spot fine of €300 per tyre as his wheels/tyres weren't on their database - bigger diameter wheels with lower profile tyres were a UK dealer fitted option they didn't have listed. I'd be very interested to know what they have in their database for the Elan - NA, SE & S2 ... but meanwhile if you've fitted 17" rims, or alloys with a strange offset you might like to drive round Germany, not through it ..
Phil

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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby dapinky » Mon 13.04.2015, 09:51

Phil,

I accept what you say about Pirelli (as I have no information on them, as they are Italian) - and also accept that in the 60's things were different.....

As for the Scimitars, I only quote official top-speeds as you mentioned them and they are marginal for tyre ratings which we were addressing (earlier ones having the same top speed as the 3.0 Essex, but 7mph more than the 2.5 Essex....

My experiences in the 60's were limited to spending many hours on the back seat of my dads Viva HB going on holidays, so again I can't comment.

In the 70's he had a HC Viva!

And then at the end of the decade I got my own wheels.....

At that time, Pirelli were accepted by us 'boy racers' as the tyre of choice - I had P3s on my Mk3 Cortina, but speed ratings wern't considered important as the car wasn't fast enough to worry about them!

My introduction to the relevant legislation came (quite rudely) when I first went to Police training college when my car was 'selected' as a practical demonstration for the Con & Use lesson (can't understand why they singled out a flourescent orange car with sporty wheels and loud exhaust :oops: ) - it was picked apart by Sgt Colin Hills, and I ended up with a list of things to do before I was allowed back the next week :oops: :oops: ....

... but the tyres were fine!

Anyway, back then we were only instructed on the current legislation (Road Traffic Act, C&U etc) that applied at that time, so again, my earlier info may well be wrong.

I still stand by the fact that HR tyres were not the 'norm' back then, and only SR, VR & ZR were common (I never said they didn't exist - just not recognised under UK legislation).

As for the difference between 'Performance' and 'Speed' rating - a matter of opinion really - are they the same? Tyres always had a seperate Speed, Weight, Traction and Wear rating which are interlinked and depend on each other for the overall 'use'? - and I can't comment on things which you were told before 1972, as I only learned the Road Traffic Acts from 1972 onwards.

The big changes were made in 1988 when the new (and mainly current) RTA was introduced, but it was heavily modified in 1991for C&U & Lighting Regs - it was at that time that the Elan was being built, and had to comply with changing 'rules'.

However, it wasn't until the mid '90s that the EU directive on tyres was enacted in the UK, and the ratings became universal across (most of) Europe.

It was at the end of the '90s that I did my Vehicle Examiners courses, and the tyre input on those came from a guy at Michellin, so I can tell you their history, but again not Pirelli, so I must accept what your brother has told you. I then had ocassion to meet the European Director of Yokohama (who I still see every so often, usually when we're diving in some hot country - he has since 'dropped out' of the rat-race and runs a Surf Shop in Woolacombe) who let me have some ridiculously low price tyres (008s in those days), and I've been a great fan of the make ever since (only partly because I can get a healthy discount on them, but mainly because they're really good tyres).

Over my career, I learned that 'Speed rating' on its own means very little, and how to apply vehicle driving forces to tyres to work out what is "safe" - but i wouldn't say that the ratings are useless, just not enough on their own to make a judgement - and without testing every tyre out there, I can't say that an "S" or "H" rated tyre from any particular batch would or wouldn't be 'safe' on an Elan with or without a chip in any particular weather condition - so to me, they are 'marginal', and I'd rather just get something which will definately do the job - but that's not to say that someone who does is a "king idiot".
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it


...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby lotusflasherman » Tue 14.04.2015, 11:56

Dave,

Thanks for reply - was that at Hendon?

I think I was probably familiar with HR, because I had a car (GTE) that used them, but must admit I was not aware of the existence of ZR tyres till I got my first Elan SE in '95.
Pirelli merged with Dunlop while my brother-in-law worked for them (around '71 I think) and Dunlop produced some better radials. Cinturatos worked well on hot dry concrete roads, as in Italy or the M1 in summer, but on wet, greasy tarmac in UK winters they were rubbish compared to Dunlops who used a more suitable compound. After the GTE I bought an Eclat in '86 (it's the 2.2 Riviera -Type 84) and that came on 205/60/14 VR Eagle NCT's - it had a published/claimed max speed of 132mph and I'm pretty sure those were the highest spec tyres around at the time.

Wikipedia seems to suggest ZR rating appeared in 91...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_code
Prior to 1991, tire speed ratings were shown inside the tire size, before the "R" construction type. The available codes were SR (112 mph, 180 km/h), HR (130 mph, 210 km/h), VR (in excess of 130 mph, 210 km/h).

That sort of makes sense to me and my unreliable memory but If that is the case, production of early Elans (89 & 90) would have preceded the ZR classification so that wouldn't fit with early (89 & 90) models coming out of Hethel with Michelin MXX-2 205/50 ZR 15 as stated in the Owner's Handbook and clearly shown in the centrefold drawing - which is strangely shown as a LHD so must be European as US models had 16"wheels.

I'd be interested to know your opinion on that conundrum.. :bowdown:

I went to Nottingham for a meeting yesterday and on the journey back was turning into the slip road to join the A14 at Newmarket when a lady in a Rover 75 coming from the other direction swung across the road to just get on the slip road before me. She had a bit of a wiggle on as she tuned across and I noticed she had a skinny 'spacesaver spare' on her nearside rear. I expected her to feed in and proceed at about 50mph in the inner lanes but she carved across to the outside lane and set off at around 80mph. I stayed well back until she disappeared up the A11 turn off, still charging on in the outside lane! Can't see why a car with such a huge boot is supplied with a spacesaver. I bung a spare SE alloy in the Elan boot when I go abroad and suffer a small bump in the boot floor... never needed it but nice to know it's there. South of France would take a bloody long time at 50mph on a spacesaver... and the car looks so awful!

Phil
Phil

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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby dapinky » Tue 14.04.2015, 14:34

lotusflasherman wrote:Dave,
Thanks for reply - was that at Hendon?

NO :evil: Chantmarle, down in Dorset - I joined a proper Police Force, not the Met!!! (Only joking - but every copper reckons theirs is the best training centre.)

lotusflasherman wrote:I'd be interested to know your opinion on that conundrum.. :bowdown:
- dunno :smt102 My only suggesstion is that by it's very nature, Wikipedia can be added to or edited by anyone - and the start line refers to tires, not tyres, so may have been originally written by an American - back in the day, they had few radial ty(i)res over the pond, and nowt went very fast!

lotusflasherman wrote:I bung a spare SE alloy in the Elan boot when I go abroad and suffer a small bump in the boot floor... never needed it but nice to know it's there. South of France would take a bloody long time at 50mph on a spacesaver... and the car looks so awful!

Yep, i have been known to do the same, but Mrs P wants it taken out so she can fit an extra kitchen sink in there in case she needs a spare!

I can't understand how people would want to drive at anything over 50mph on a spacesaver - they're designed to be noisy and bumpy at speed to make you keep it down to a safe level - assuming hte driver fitted it themselves, they should know - and if someone else fitted it for her, she should have been told.
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it


...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby epipete » Fri 01.05.2015, 12:58

Wheels powder coated at: Williams & Oakley Eng Co Ltd, Radstock. BA3 2AA @ £40 + VAT
Tyres (Toyo PX T1R) from: Bathwick Tyres, Chippenham. SN14 0AB @ £59.70 each (fitted and balanced)

image.jpg

Well, dammit, I like them anyway!!!!!

Ps: the direction is important, I am right in assuming that on the tyres that say 'right' this means the Drivers side (OS) and 'left' means Passenger (NS)?
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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby HJ2 » Fri 01.05.2015, 14:52

I like them too!

Is that the Ebay price you're going to ask btw? :clap:
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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby epipete » Fri 01.05.2015, 14:58

No, it isn't; but I'm thinking of putting the ones I've taken off onto eBay as I can't take them to Cyprus with me, but they do have very old tyres on them!!!!
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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby maz_r » Fri 01.05.2015, 15:20

Not S2s though Pete, surely?

Those wheels will look good on your white car, methinks.
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Re: Bridgestone RE-11 or Toyo Proxes R1R?

Postby Fredjohn » Fri 01.05.2015, 15:24

epipete wrote:Ps: the direction is important, I am right in assuming that on the tyres that say 'right' this means the Drivers side (OS) and 'left' means Passenger (NS)?


Yes Pete very important: they are directional and need putting on correctly. The tread pattern will "point" to the ground when looked at from the front of the car.
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