3D printing

[tweetdriver63]

I wonder, is 3D printing going to be the answer when it comes to obsolete parts for older vehicles?

Can they 3D print items out of something flexible - like rubber - or only hard items? How nice would it be if we could get new seals from a 3D printer?

The world is waiting to know.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/watch-oak- ... lby-cobra/

[dapinky]

Chris,

I am the first to admit that I know little of the capabilities of 3D printing - and haven't really looked at the machinery availlable for home use (size seems to be the biggest constraint).

However, at the moment, I believe that the process uses heat to melt 'plastic' fillaments into 'drops' of material which then stick together as they set... and only rigid (or semi-rigid) items can be made.

I may well be wrong, as the technology is always moving onwards.

However - it may be possible to do a 3d scan of the seals, produce a solid version in a printer, then use that solid item to produce a 'negative' mould, which could be used to cast rubber seals.... how accurate they would be, and how cost-effective is another matter

[tweetdriver63]

As I understand it, they're using 3D printing technology aboard the ISS now to produce parts they need.

I think the technology is on its way to where it could be used to make obsolete parts, and they are capable of printing flexible items too.

http://www.stratasys.com/materials/polyjet/rubber-like

Like you, I have no idea where costs are. There are already affordable 3D printers on the market for home use. I'm just waiting for somebody on here to get one and create something for their car. Off the top of my head, I can't think which parts are now unavailable that would be good to try, but certainly one could print out things like b-post caps, door escutcheons, and since they have the ability to print transparent things with transparent resin, tail light covers, etc.

http://www.stratasys.com/materials/polyjet/transparent

[maz_r]

That is one method that you describe, Dave. There are many others, including some which 'print' metal, but there are mostly too expensive for home use at the moment. There are 3D print bureaus who will take design files and produce limited runs but I've not seen one that prints anything flexible, although I did see someone on here talking about seeing gaskets being printed at a trade show.

However, it is inevitable that the technology is not too far away...

[maz_r]

Cross posted with Chris....

Nice find Chris - would love to know how much those printers cost...

I've got a cheerful 3D printer but the quality isn't up to anything you'd want visible on the car - you would be sadly disappointed

I did wonder if it could make the wheel centres for S2 wheels, though as they are 99% hidden...

[markv]

Different 3D printers use different technologies and different materials. The cheapest use spools of plastic thread which is heated to a liquid and then deposited much in the same way as an inkjet printer. The z-axis is then moved down slightly and the part built up layer by layer. Overhangs are handled by building in supporting scaffolding (the software usually puts this in for you automatically) which you remove manually afterwards. Next up (and more expensive) are the resin ones, where a laser "draws" each layer, and where it "draws" the resin is cured/solidified. The most expensive ones use a fine metallic powder rather than a liquid plastic resin. At the high end, 3D printing technology is already in widespread use. On a trip round the Lotus F1 factory I saw a roomful of printers producing complex parts. Lotus showed the end results, complex shaped structures with minute tubes built in which they said they would not have been able to make using any other technology. Understandably, we weren't allowed to take any photos!

At the hobbyist end of the market, 3D printers are available from many sources (e.g., Maplins in the UK) as well as via opensource initiatives (e.g., Reprap). 3D printers seem to be one of the most popular categories at KickStarter, the crowdfunding site, but print quality will be lower with these cheaper end models. Having said that, I've been fascinated by 3D printing since the first ones were announced a couple of decades or so ago, as I used to work for a CAD company. So I have recently taken the plunge via kickstarter - see here . I'm not expecting amazing quality at this price, but will update you when/if it arrives.

[Ian T]

I'm about to buy (I think) a Da Vinci 3D printer - mass produced model that the open source hackers have got at to free it from its expensive proprietary 'chipped' filament.

That prints in ABS but there are other materials becoming more popular including something not dissimilar to rubber.

While it would be feasible to print small parts, they aren't as strong as injection moulded items and not as well finished either, although both issues can to some extent be countered by use of solvents and a certain amount of manual finishing / painting.

It's an area that's coming on quite quickly in technology terms and the materials are getting more interesting every year.

[HJ2]

I have already seen automotive rubber parts printed on 3D printing fairs (is this the correct word?)
No doubt that in the next 5 years all these hard to source rubber parts can be printed! (sorry Jamie )

[Ian T]

Interesting point, you may be right. The main problem I see is finish, after you've bought a large enough printer. Given the filament is melted and fused in printing, a skilled hand and shaped (and heated) blade might be used to skim the finished object surface and clean up the finish.

I think Jamie is safe for a while yet though.

[Jamie N]

I have already seen automotive rubber parts printed on 3D printing fairs (is this the correct word?)
No doubt that in the next 5 years all these hard to source rubber parts can be printed! (sorry Jamie )

If i had to make rubber seals for the next 5 years i would be so depressed i would probably start inhaling the toxins voluntarily . 3D sounds great to me, if it could make seals of high quality then that would be magnificent, the one i would be most interested in is the one that goes around the bottom of the door, the sponge version of that is appalling.

Has anyone been up close and examined a recent Ferrari Convertible's seals?, they are stunningly neat, if a 3D printer could bring our cars anywhere near that standard i cant wait. .

[HJ2]

The seals are not filament printed, but sintered.
Filament printers are " cheap" as the patents of the process are overdue. Last year sintering patents were overdue so prices are starting to drop

[dapinky]

.....the one i would be most interested in is the one that goes around the bottom of the door, the sponge version of that is appalling......

.... yep, but I was supplied with a pair of rubber ones by a helpful bloke in Scotland.....

....not quite a straight replacement, but easily achievable.

(I don't know how watertight they will be yet, but they look bloody good!)

[Jamie N]

(I don't know how watertight they will be yet, but they look bloody good!)

If you made that top part ok and used a thin strip of Butyl along the length of the backing where the plastic studs are Dave you can be assured it will be multitudinously better than the thing they shoved on it at the Factory, you certaily wouldn't make it worse! .

[dapinky]

Jamie,

I think I got the top bit right - took a bit of destruction to remove the metal brackets built in to the seal, but then a dab or two of glue along with some fettling made them fit a treat. Until I get the car finished, I have to hope it will work, but as you say, much better than the soggy sponge which I took off.

[Jamie N]

Did you remove the metal completely Dave?, I shaped the metal insert to fit the area it sits in and was surprised how well it worked. Any pictures for our perusal .

[dapinky]

Because the door wasn't on the car at the time it made the job really easy, but it did mean that I had nowt to use as a reference point for the shaping (even with the door card layed over it to give some idea, it isn't the same as having the surrounding panels/seals etc in place).

Therefore, I decided to totally remove the metal and rely on just the rubber. As there was no metal in the OE sponges, i decided it didn't need the 'structure', just the shape.

It was only when I actually put the doors back on that i could tidy up the 2 ends.

I'm sure that there will be more fettling to do, and then I'll get some pictures and put a bit on the appropriate thread (not this one which I seem to have hi-jacked ).

It may need to be 'bulked out' at the rear edge of the door to get a good seal against the hood seals, or it may be okay like it is - either way, I'm pleased with the results so far.

(and the A pillar seals are a perfect fit )

PS,
I'm still not sure how long I'll be able to hang on to the remaining roof seals (which are in good condition) before OCD gets the better of me and I want rubber!!!
[where's the gimp mask smiley?]

[Jamie N]

Ooooh Errr

[Rusty Wishbone]

Filament printers are " cheap" as the patents of the process are overdue. Last year sintering patents were overdue so prices are starting to drop

Hmmmm. This is almost certainly a major oversimplification.

[HJ2]

I know, but given the audience

[Jamie N]

I know, but given the audience

Cheeky Neanderthals,....... oops sorry i meant Netherlanders .