Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby Tuga2112 » Sun 28.06.2015, 15:41

Fetnas wrote:One thing, copper grease is not the recommended lubricant for the sliders. I think it has issues with the high heat and will thicken up over time which will cause the sliders to become stiff again. Silicon grease is the recommended grease and a small tube normally comes with the slider seal replacement kit. Silicon grease doesn't dry out over time or with higher temps. I would recommend putting the correct grease in there as you don't want to have issues with the brakes when you need them most!


suppose that means I'll be disassemblying the caliper again sometime this week ... :roll:
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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby Elanlover » Sun 28.06.2015, 15:52

Fetnas wrote:One thing, copper grease is not the recommended lubricant for the sliders. I think it has issues with the high heat and will thicken up over time which will cause the sliders to become stiff again. Silicon grease is the recommended grease and a small tube normally comes with the slider seal replacement kit. Silicon grease doesn't dry out over time or with higher temps. I would recommend putting the correct grease in there as you don't want to have issues with the brakes when you need them most!


I'm not sure why you think a copper based lubricant/antisieze has issue with heat. Copper based compounds like CopaSlip (and others) are specifically designed fro high heat applications and will not soften or harden in those conditions. A brief description from the manufacturer's (CopaSlip) website:

Copaslip features:
• To ensure long-lasting effectiveness, Copaslip is formulated to not harden or soften under extreme temperature and operating conditions
• Has a very wide operating range from -40°C to +1100°C (-35°F to +2000°F) especially designed for extreme service conditions
• Prevents metal-to-metal contact to increase reliability and component life
• Provides permanent protection against rust and corrosion


http://www.molyslip.com/products/anti-s ... -compound/

I might use something else for that application myself but if this is what you have laying around I can't see why it wouldn't do the job.
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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby Fetnas » Mon 29.06.2015, 14:55

OK, I guess I've miss spoken on the copperslip front. Happy to admit I might be wrong and that copperslip could do the job :oops: . That said, the manual says to use silicon grease, silicon grease is supplied with the replacement slider seal kits and it I was advised to use silicon grease by other LECers when I overhauled the stuck sliders on my rear calipers.

The copper slip I have is quite a bit thicker than the silicon grease I used which might change the way the sliders move. I believe the sliders need to move as freely as possible to work properly.

I guess what I'm saying is that silicon grease was probably specced for a good reason (admittedly that could be cost considering the brakes are essentially a mass produced GM part :smt102 ). What ever the reason, my personal preferance is to stick with what was originally used.
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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Mon 29.06.2015, 15:55

Just adding fuel to the fire, I read somewhere that copper grease is actually slightly abrasive and several brake rebuild sites warn rebuilders to stay away from it as they have found early wear on parts like the sliders. I found this when trolling the wide web for discussions on repairing the GM brakes used on the M100.
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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby Elanlover » Mon 29.06.2015, 16:15

Fetnas wrote: ...........I guess what I'm saying is that silicon grease was probably specced for a good reason (admittedly that could be cost considering the brakes are essentially a mass produced GM part :smt102 ). What ever the reason, my personal preferance is to stick with what was originally used.


Oh I agree which is why I said I'd probably use something else. CopaSlip wouldn't be my first choice although they do recommend it behind the pads to reduce squeal. If that was all you had and needed to get the calipers back together it would work but not be the best choice. Still, its not an issue of heat that makes it not exactly the best choice. More along the lines of what BCN said (abrasive).
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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby lotusflasherman » Mon 29.06.2015, 19:34

Brit-Car-Nut wrote:Just adding fuel to the fire, I read somewhere that copper grease is actually slightly abrasive and several brake rebuild sites warn rebuilders to stay away from it as they have found early wear on parts like the sliders. I found this when trolling the wide web for discussions on repairing the GM brakes used on the M100.


I've used some of the supplied silicone grease and kept the remains in the little foil sachet for future use and then found it's gone virtually solid in the sachet. I now use Copper Ease by Comma, a UK company. Have a 85gm tube that's lasted years and says range is -40C to 1350C and it's application is to backs of pads and caliper components. It's made for the job and any wear on components is much more likely to be caused by dust from friction material (pads) than copper grease. If slider pins are worn that means the calipers are moving a lot - that's very unlikely on an Elan. :lol:
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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby Tuga2112 » Mon 29.06.2015, 20:26

I went for copper cus (as mentioned before) the guy at the auto store said copper is what you use around the brakes, and my friend who is a mechanic in a specialist land rover garage also recomended the same. I assumed silicone and copper where different names for the same compound (just thought it was a mix of both with grease or something of the kind)


Should i disassemble the caliper and repeat the procedure with silicone grease ?
or is this discussion soleny for the purpose of future reference and copper grease is an acceptable lubrication/anty-seize compound to use in for the sliders ?
or maybe wait for the opinions of pinky and geoff on the subject ?

on a separate note.
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a couple of weeks ago, when putting the car all back together from the respray i also installed a reverse camera which you can find pictures here.
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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby dapinky » Sat 04.07.2015, 19:08

Just catching up with LEC-Land after my 2 weeks in the sunshine, so may be a tad behind with things.....

....Copper grease is NOT specified for the sliders - it has nowt to do with temperature resistance or abrassion (which will be minimal in this application) - it is to do with the compatability of the base grease with the rubber of the seals - Silicone will not cause the rubber to swell up, but the Petroleum compounds in other grease will/may do so.

It is the swelling of the internal rubber seal which will cause the pin to bind prematurely.

My advice is to clean the whole lot up with meths (Isopropyl alcohol) and re-assemble with silicone grease.

As previously mentioned, it can dry out in time, but it is merely the solvents dissipating - the actual 'greasiness' remains the same.
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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby Tuga2112 » Sat 04.07.2015, 22:24

dapinky wrote:Just catching up with LEC-Land after my 2 weeks in the sunshine, so may be a tad behind with things.....

....Copper grease is NOT specified for the sliders - it has nowt to do with temperature resistance or abrassion (which will be minimal in this application) - it is to do with the compatability of the base grease with the rubber of the seals - Silicone will not cause the rubber to swell up, but the Petroleum compounds in other grease will/may do so.

It is the swelling of the internal rubber seal which will cause the pin to bind prematurely.

My advice is to clean the whole lot up with meths (Isopropyl alcohol) and re-assemble with silicone grease.

As previously mentioned, it can dry out in time, but it is merely the solvents dissipating - the actual 'greasiness' remains the same.

:bowdown: Thanks dave,

That does clarify why the copper grease seemed to be fine while being the wrong lubricant to use.

I think i Damaged one of the rubber boots in the process of taking the sliders out previously, (i tried to take the rubber before pushing out the slider but it wouldnt come off, so just pushed the slider out with the rubber in place) incase i need to replace it in this second attempt (assuming its not already broken) are these dificult to source and/or expencive ?

It may be the right time to upgrade the disks/calipers although i am not looking forward to the bill.
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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby dapinky » Sat 04.07.2015, 22:49

Tuga2112 wrote:I think i Damaged one of the rubber boots in the process of taking the sliders out previously........... are these dificult to source and/or expencive ?


If you think you only need one they're neither hard to find nor expensive ;-) (i'll dig one out of my pile of stuff never thrown away and bring it up to the next West Mids meeting)
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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby Tuga2112 » Sat 04.07.2015, 22:53

dapinky wrote:
Tuga2112 wrote:I think i Damaged one of the rubber boots in the process of taking the sliders out previously........... are these dificult to source and/or expencive ?


If you think you only need one they're neither hard to find nor expensive ;-) (i'll dig one out of my pile of stuff never thrown away and bring it up to the next West Mids meeting)


Thanks Dave.
Im gonna see if i can do de refitting tomorow, depends if i can source the grease on a sunday, and will let you know if i need any, and how many.
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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby Tuga2112 » Tue 14.07.2015, 19:16

Dave,

this is the condition of the seals, im pretty sure i need at least one if not 2.

while reassembling i noticed the rubbers in the sliders were very loose, to the one of the sliders back in i had to cut it, the other one was forced in as there was no other way.

does that mean i also need a replacement slider or rubber ring ?

Image
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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby dapinky » Tue 14.07.2015, 19:39

Joao,

It's hard to tell too much from the photos, but it appears that you may have a slight ridge of rust around the centre of the slider chanel in the caliper (i can see a bit of a ring in the middle) - this is pretty normal after a strip-down, but should ideally be removed as any rust already present will grow and spread with moisture - and it's right where the rubber seal runs.....

... Okay, what I'd suggest is to wrap some wet & dry paper round a piece of metal bar (an old bolt with the head cut off is ideal) with the rough bit on the outside, then stick it in a drill and run it through the caliper holes, if you keep it moving in and out as you go round you will end up with a well-honed finish with little effort.

The trick is to have the diameter of the abrasive roll just less than the diameter of the bore, and don't press it too hard against the caliper - let the abrasive do the work.

I will bring up a selection of sliders and rubbers on Thursday - i have some old knackered ones, but I also have some which have done about a year on the car before being changed for new ones just for the hell of it!
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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby Tuga2112 » Tue 14.07.2015, 19:58

i did introduce the slider holes to the 400 grid wet and dry, but using the finger, it quickly got boring task. i didnt think of the drill.

ill see you thursday, and im guessing friday after work ill be busy taking the whole thing apart and reassembling..
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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby Tuga2112 » Sun 09.08.2015, 19:13

Hello again.

Small update on the project.

firstly I finally edited the first page with a resume of what has been done and what I intend to do at some point in the future.

Currently the car got a remote central locking system working (fitted by a professional software Engineer )
through the remote control I can open and close doors and as of today open the boot as well. (thanks to some tips from John)
Unlike John, I didn't use bicycle gear cable, I used brake cable and no tensioner. I manually tensioned the cable and so far seems to be working.

There's one spare wire in my little box, (brown one)
According to the instructions this is the wire used to trigger the flashers so I can see from a distance that the car registered the click in the remote.

So back to the Electrical manual (version 6) this time looking at page 77 I look at this page and I reach the conclusion I (have no clue what I'm doing) don't know which wire that comes out of the hazard switch I want to splice into, Im guessing it must be possible to light all flashers with a single splice, but... my understanding of the diagram it appears I must splice into GW and GR.
I need to find where is the IPHC connector, and some help to know which wire form there I should be splicing into.
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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby Tuga2112 » Fri 02.10.2015, 21:58

Update on project.

so, as refered previously i had to buy an alloy to pass the MOt, this needed painting. in turn i had to paint all the alloys.
i took advantage of this to also place the stickers i got at brands hatch from one of our dutch members.

so here's the end result.

Image

im very happy with the end result.

in the meanwhile, also bough some locking wheel nuts, because after spending 2 weeks working on sanding off and painting the alloys, these are now worth about 300 times more than before.

finally installed a new gadjet,
its a simple beeper that is triggered everytime you open the door and the lights are on. basically a reminder that will hopefully stop me from draining the battery.
can upload pics if anyone is interested. but im assuming its not very exciting.

now to the bad news.
when put back one of the alloys i came across this.
not sure if i should worry or just clean up the grease, but as you can see from the pictures there is something not quite right.
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what should i do ? anything near the steering scares the crap out of me every since i heard about how much a steering rack costs and how dificult it is to find one...
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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sat 03.10.2015, 04:09

Looks like a CV Joint dust boot has failed. I would replace both while you are fixing the one that ruptured.

Read the Service Manual for the directions to do the job. With the right tools and patience, a DIY owner can do this.

Outer Boot kit is A100R6004S (£23.62); Inner Boot Kit is A100R6005S which was replaced by A111D6011S (£16.55). Prices exclude VAT and are the prices from Lotus.
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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby dapinky » Sat 03.10.2015, 09:36

Joao,

changing the boots isn't a hard job, but it can get a bit time-consuming as you'll find other things which would benefit from a good clean/paint whilst you're in the area.

Have a look at this post for a few clues.

The important things to know are that you will need a suitable socket for the hub nut - a normal one isn't likely to be deep enough to get over the threaded bit and sit on the nut. (I can lend you one if you need it).

Basically, its jack up the car, remove wheel, undo the hub nut (you may want to replace the wheel with the centre cap removed and drop it back on the ground to do this, but as you have an impact wrench you should be able to do it with the wheel off).
Undo enough of the ball joints to allow the hub to swing away and off the drive shaft - you can remove the bolts from the top ball joint and swing it down, or the other way and up - the choice is yours.

As it's the outer CV boot it's the easier one to get at and the new one will slide on, but you'll have to stretch it over the big bit! (but see below for an easy alternative to stretching it :wink: )

Make sure all the old grease is cleaned out of the joint and fill it with new grease (Proper CV grease, NOT general-purpose stuff - it comes with the boots from the guys I used.)

The metal clips which hold the boot on can be a bit awkward without the proper tool to tighten them, but I use an old pair of pincers which have been ground down with an angle grinder and it's easy. Alternatively, you can use locking wire. (but if you're borrowing my socket, you can borrow the pincers as well).

Reassembly is a straighforward reverse of removal.

If all the bolts come undone it shouldn't be a long job (with the right tools) and I would expect it to take about an hour or so.

It is worth looking at the inner joint at the same time as it's a good time to replace that one if it's worn/cracked (and it makes changing the outer one really easy!) - slightly more awkward to get at, but still not at all difficult whilst the drive shaft is undone from the hub anyway - it just pulls out once you've undone the big metal band on the inner boot, leaving the inner bit of the shaft still in the gearbox, so it doesn't get disturbed and you don't loose any gear oil. If you decide to do both, then undo the inner one first, lift the outer shaft away from the car and you can do the one which is shown in your picture easily by removing a single circlip from the inner end of the outer shaft, slipping the spider arm off the splined bit, and now the outer (damaged) boot will simply slide off the shaft, and the new one slides back on. Remeber to also slide the inner boot onto the shaft before putting the spider back on with the circlip, but don't fit the retaining rings until it's all back in the car.
Dave

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...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby tb10 » Sat 03.10.2015, 23:04

:agree: As ever a very detailed post from Dave :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: and also excellent cost information from Brit-Car-Nut - John :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

regards

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Re: Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

Postby mitreklov » Sun 04.10.2015, 00:34

If you want an alternative outer CV boot to the Lotus one, I have fitted these to my SE. They have been on the car for 2years+ now and seem to be holding up ok.
While they are listed as Elise parts they are a perfect fit for the Elan and the hub nut is the correct size and thread too.

www.jandrcvjoints.co.uk/lotus-elise-1-8-driveshaft-hub-nut-cv-joint-boot-kit-bootkit-cone-1996-2000/

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