Fuel pouring out

[CalElan]

Elan's can get you that way...

[Jon]

Good news (well sort of) the fuel leak has started again - but at least this time I know where it is coming from!!!

It is leaking from the right hand end of the fuel filter connection where the fuel line seems to have been jubilee clipped into another fatter short section of hose.


So next question, do I need to drain the fuel system to take the filter out and work on these hoses??

[dapinky]

Simple answer is no, but it can be a bit tricky.

A few words of wisdom on the wiki relating to fuel filter pipes.

[HJ2]

Show us some pictures!


If you relief the pressure on the fuel lines and have plenty of cloth to catch any spill, AND have no ignition sources in the area (including static like fleece sweaters) AND have a suitable extinguisher at hand, there's no need to drain the system (but this is just my opinion, not necessarily the truth).

From what i am reading, it might be possible that somebody already tinkered around at the fuel lines. If so: I would replace the leaky part for a OEM one and swap the filter in the same go.

[Jon]

It seems to be in an exceptionally difficult place to get to - near impossible to access or even see even with mirrors and cameras...

If I'm reading the Wiki right it is suggesting that the best solution to re-attach is to cut the fuel line back to the top of the fuel tank and insert a new line which is jubilee clipped back there (which is certainly more accessible). Am I reading that right?


From what I can make out the connection out of the fuel filter does a right angle turn upwards, then has some sort of sort section of hose attached (I think it might be braided? with some outer layer which is now pealing off) then after a couple of inches that is jubilee clipped to the normal rubber fuel lines (and this second jubilee is the point where the leak seems to be occurring).

[HJ2]

It all depends on your current lay out really. Is it OEM or did somebody slaughter around allready. If the latter, then i would bring it back to OEM state with OEM stuff if I were you.

[Jon]

It looks to me like the original lines have been cut and joined on both sides of the fuel filter.

[HJ2]

I just saw the piccies again on page one, sorry!
Yes, this look like been tinkered around with.

As long as you can reach the beginning and the end of the OEM pipe connections you are able to fiddle the (to be obtained) OEM hose in position. Fitting is then as per service manual again.

[dapinky]

Jon,

As per my first post on this thread, it appears that someone has replaced the OE pipe at the filter, and joined it to the hard plastic pipe somewhere along it's length, and it is now leaking.

As stated previously, it is either the wrong sort of pipe used, or a bad joint (or possibly both!).

The short pipe between the tank and the filter is easily replaced as per the wiki - the one to the engine (where your leak appears to be) is more awkward to do, but it can be replaced with proper fuel line rubber hose for it's entire length, or replaced with a molded OE pipe. The problem occurs when the 2 types are joined.

I suspect that someone in the past has merely pushed a length of rubber hose over the OE plastic (somewhere along its length) and 'secured' it with a jubilee clip - this is NOT an appropriate way to join the 2 types of pipe (as you have now discovered!) - the whole thing needs replacing in one length.

[Jon]

Yes, thanks Dave - you did indeed call this issue early on, but when I looked at the time I couldn't see any signs of leakage, but now I know (and can see) this definitely the issue!

I have to admit that I'm "a driver not a mechanic" (terminology which as I recall came from the early days of the LEC website) so I'm going to get someone else to sort this out...

Thanks everyone for the help - as ever the LEC is an invaluable resource for any & all M100 owner(s)!

[Jon]

Just to update on this - I organised for my friendly mechanic to fix the fuel leak. Since the leak had become progressively worse and not wishing to risk driving the car I called the AA [home start] to come and take it.

Assuming they would just tow the car, I was quite surprised that in fact the AA man got stuck in and actually replaced the perished fuel line connectors (it took about two hours and I did have to help several times) - kudos to him!

However his replacements were marginally too long and this meant that once the filter was pushed back in place the fuel lines kinked further back and prevented the engine from starting.

We managed to re-route the fuel lines to unkink them and get the car started - but the re-routing required the white cover to be absent, so the car still had to go to my mechanic to get a final fix (also got him to replace the filter at the same time, which I don't think has been done in the 15 years I've owned the car, certainly looks pretty old). So now we are all back and running.

Thanks again everyone for pointers and tips!

[peteoddcar]

I only just found this interesting thread.
I changed my fuel filter over the winter and one of the pipes fractured due to sudden twisting as I undid the union bolt.I am Mr Clumsey but it is awkward ...
The quick bodge which seems to have been the cause of your issues was tempting, but luckily for me the fracture was on the short pipe from the pump unit to the filter.I was able to effect a proper repair when I removed the pipe from the car. With the help of a wooden dolly I made, I held the pipe in a vice and knocked the union back into the slightly shorted pipe.
Seems a good repair.This is how we used to repair damaged fuel lines on the Lucas PI systems.Triumph PI TR5&6

The dolly is a piece of hardwood with a hole drilled in the diameter of the pipe and cut in half thereby allowing it to grip the nylon pipe but not crush it.

[ColinBruce]

Hi everyone. My 1991 SE seems to have a very similar problem to Jon's car. When the fuel tank is filled right up there is a strong smell of petrol inside and outside of the car. There is a pool of petrol on the garage floor under the fuel tank about 3 feet in diameter. Once the tank is less than 2/3 full then the leak stops but there is still a smell of petrol inside and outside the car (which seems stronger at the passenger side).

I don't have access to ramps but I can see under the car and the bottom of the tank is covered in petrol on the passenger side. At the top I have removed the shelf and the inspection covers (at the top and side of the tank) and there are no signs of a leak. Also the area around the filler breather hose looks dry. Unlike Jon's car, from what I can see, my hoses appear to be original.

I have owned the car for 3 & 1/2 years and it has always had a petrol smell but I just tried not to fill the tank right up and that helped a lot. Now, with the petrol leaking onto the garage floor, I can't ignore it any longer. Note there is no 'squirt' of fuel onto the floor when starting or stopping the engine. The pool of petrol seems to be created by a constant drip.

Twice in the past I have taken the car to my local garage for them to investigate. They know the car well and have always looked after it for me. The first time they couldn't find anything wrong. The second time they pressurised the tank and went around the whole fuel system with a sensor. They said there were no vapour leaks other than around the top of the neck of the filler pipe where the readings were off the scale. They fitted a new OEM cap and had to re-shape the top of the pipe to make a good seal against it but assured me the readings were now excellent.

From what I have described does anyone have an idea what may be causing the leak? (Please note I am not a mechanic but I do have a copy of the workshop manual and am usually pretty good with my hands). This would be greatly appreciated.

[Jon]

When my issue first arose, I thought it was a crack in the plastic tank itself (plenty of info on the forum about this).

Sounds like yours could be that?

[John_W]

See Ted’s thread HERE.

[ColinBruce]

Thanks Jon & John_W. I was just reading Ted's thread when I saw both your comments.

I think Ted's repair is great but the work involved is too much for me. I'd also be concerned that I went to all that effort and I still had a problem afterwards. This means I am faced with trying to source a new tank for a mechanic to fit.

It is entirely possible the fuel tank has taken a knock from the road. I often use the car for navigation rallies and very occasionally the car can be airborne and have a heavy landing. Some of this is due to the softened 27 year old springs allowing the car to sit half an inch lower than it should front and rear, however his doesn't explain why I have had a problem with the smell of petrol from day one.

Update: Overnight the petrol on the garage floor had evaporated and there was no visible sign of fuel but the smell still remained. The underside of the tank still looked wet so I laid a piece of cardboard on the garage floor under the tank as a tell-tale and tried starting the car. No new petrol appeared when the fuel pump kicked in, nor when the car started or when the engine was turned off. So today it seems to be behaving as it should!

[Kipperozzy]

Hi Colinbruce, I discovered my tank was leaking after I filled it up completely and then parked on a steep drive facing down. I syphoned of enough to stop the leak and took the inspection covers off but couldnt see where the petrol was coming from. After much reading I decided that I didnt want to try and get the car up high enough to remove the tank safely so I bought a second hand tank and booked it into a local specialist (thinking I didnt want to pay them to remove the tank and find out I needed a replacement tank then have to pay to get it put back in until I sourced a replacement, then pay again to get it swapped !) .
They removed the original tank, which was actually ok but the top seal around the tank access hole was where the leak was, once renewed all was fine (apart from my fuel gauge wasnt working now, but I managed to fix that by repositioning the fuel flange/lid and retightening the ring.
So check the top seal is ok , and if you do have to take the tank out, note there are double nuts on the straps holding the tank....

[ColinBruce]

Hi Kipperozzy. That sounds very similar to the problem I have. Just to be certain - the problem you had was with the seal on the top of the tank where the large circular, ribbed ring is (where the fuel lines go into the tank)? Once you come back to me I'll take the shelf and access panel off again and have another look.

You referred to a local specialist. Who are they and are they any good? I've been looking for someone in the West of Scotland who are expects with Elans.

[Kipperozzy]

Hi Colinbruce, yes the seal at the tank access was leaking. Before loosening off the ring, mark where the fuel flange is in relation to the tank as if the fuel float assembly isn’t lined up correctly, it can foul on the tank and your gauge won’t read properly.
I used Kenneth Brown in Hillington , i used them after seeing references to this garage on here. They do a good suspension check/adjust which they carried out after the tank job although I’ve not used them since that as I’ve been able to do any other work myself.....so far .
(Apart from Jamie the seal ,)

[Rambo]

A thumbs up from me for Kenny Broon

I used him a lot when I was based in Embra. But that was >13 years ago ScottJ has used him in the past too