Small (or maybe not) project. 91 elan

[Tuga2112]

the goal is to replace the cv joint boot

i *think* im removing the driveshaft, by pressing it inwards with the puller anchored in the hub,

i have seen on someone else doing the job on youtube and the guy didnt need to undo the ball joints to separate the shaft from the hub, i have used the puller with the hub sitting on the joints but only losely, (basically the joints are already free, but i still haver the hub on them just to stop it from moving sideways.

when i took the hub out of the joints and moved it around it looks like the shaft can go inwards when the hub is on the joints. took some pictures this morning before leaving the house. will add some paint notations and post so i can explain best what i am trying to do.

im probably using wrong terminology and that i causing confusion.

Initially (by looking at the parts manual) i assumed that to remove the drive shaft i needed to separate the hub from the hub assembly, then i realized (when Dave posted the picture of the tool) that all i needed to do was to push the driveshaft inwards. now, i am clueless again. as the 20ton procedure seems to be completely unrelated to what im trying to achieve,

[Brit-Car-Nut]

You need to disconnect the driveshaft from the gearbox/differential and to do that, you need to remove the hub carrier from either the upper or lower ball joint as well as disconnect the hub carrier from the steering rack. That is why you need a ball joint tool. Once the hub carrier is free, it will rotate on the remaining ball joint allowing you to disconnect the driveshaft from the gearbox/differential.

For the near side, you use a "sharp" blow/hit with a decent hammer to the inner CV bell or use a CV joint fork (like an oversize ball joint fork) to pop it out of the differential gear. There is a snap ring on the gearbox end of the driveshaft that keeps it in the gear until it is forced out.

For the off side, you need to disconnect the driveshaft from the Center Shaft which is what Lotus used to make the driveshafts the same length and reduce the torque steer that is a problem in FWD cars.

You might have to remove the driveshaft and Center Shaft together by removing the 2 bolts holding the Center Shaft to the engine and take it to a local shop for them to separate them for you.

Once the driveshaft is out of the differential / Center Shaft, use the puller to push the driveshaft out of the bearing in the hub carrier.

Pictures of the different shafts:

Click on picture for full size

[dapinky]

This is all a mystery to me - I've never had to remove the whole shaft (or split it) to get the hub off the shaft to get to the CV boots - but often choose to.....

.... but there is another 'option' (as mentioned by John) to avoid taking the whole shaft out of the gearbox and loosing the gear oil.


If the hub is now loose from the rest of the car, but still attached to the drive shaft, the inner CV joint can be seperated (it is only a sliding fit anyway - nothing to really undo, except the rubber boot).

By undoing the big metal band on the inner boot, it is possible to then seperate the CV joint by sliding the outer end of the drive shaft towards you) still with the hub attached to it....

The centre shaft stays in the car - basically, seperating items 11 from 12 in the above pictures.

Once you have the driveshaft (with the hub still attached) on the workbench you have a choice:-

1) Seperate the shaft from the hub

2) leave it alone!

I'd go for 1) if you can do it yourself, or 2) if you'd have to take it somewhere - it doesn't need to come off, but just makes it easier to work with and replace the shaft in the car afterwards.

Once you seperate 11 from 12 you will see that 12 is just - basically - a tube with 3 grooves cut into it. Under the boot (11) is a 3-legged 'spider' which fit into the grooves.

You will be wondering how you are going to get the boots on/off without damage, but it is actually really easy (and this is why I usually split the shaft to do it anyway to avoid stretching the boots over anything!)....

...Clean the grease off the 3-legged spider and you will find that the end of the shaft is splined, with the spider pushed onto it. It is held in place by a standard circlip.

If you undo the circlip, the spider will pull off the end of the shaft.

Now it is really easy to change the boots as they will simply slide off and on again.

Once the boots are replaced, simply replace the spider and the circlip and refit the shaft into the tube in the centre shaft, do up the inner boot (item 11) and re-attach everything!

[alan e]

There is a easier way just get a CV boot that you glue together it is split down the middle so you cut the old boot to remove it clean all the old grease off fit the new CV boot around the driveshaft and using the glue that comes with the boot glue it together job done.

[Tuga2112]

out of the bunch of pictures i took only one may (unlikely) be helpfull all the others are really rubbish.

tomorow ill try to take some decent pictures.

carNut,
if i understand this currectly, the shafts on both sides are different? this seems really weird. i would expect them to be identical,
the side im working on is the passenger side for UK spec, (if your sitting inside it it will be on your left hand side ,near the fusebox? )

My understanding at the moment is that i cannot escape the fact that the axle will have to come out from the inner CV joint side. correct ?
if the shaft needs to be disconnected from there, i can just slide the boot from that side without needing to take the hub out.

on the pictures you put up. i recognise the left hand driveshaft, but the picture there has the hub already taken out.

Once the driveshaft is out of the differential / Center Shaft, use the puller to push the driveshaft out of the bearing in the hub carrier

any reason why this is not possible when the hub is hanging by a single joint ? (upper one)

it may be worth noting the boot set i got came with the cone used to slide the boot over the hub carrier end.

Dave

If the hub is now loose from the rest of the car, but still attached to the drive shaft, the inner CV joint can be seperated (it is only a sliding fit anyway - nothing to really undo, except the rubber boot).

that is almost correct, as the only thing holding the hub at the moment is the upper ball joint and the shaft itself

By undoing the big metal band on the inner boot, it is possible to then seperate the CV joint by sliding the outer end of the drive shaft towards you) still with the hub attached to it....

if i understnad this correctly, then i will need to top up the grease in the inner joint when i get to reassemble, or may even just replace that boot ?
I did buy 2 boots, so replacing both is not out of question, but i was under the impression that would require a lot extra work that i would prefer to avoid.

Once you have the driveshaft (with the hub still attached) on the workbench you have a choice

what advantage is there to try and losen up the shaft from the hub at this stage ? is it just a matter of trying it out in the event i need to take it apart again in the future ?

I am wondering if the shaft is meant to go in (as tohards the car) when i use the puller and the hub was sit im place because was on top of the ball joints ?
my question is, if i push the shaft from the centre, is it meant to give in or am i supposed to do that with the hub completely free because its the hub that is meant to come out ? that could explain why the puller broke?

could there be a difference between early and later cars in there ? mine is late 91 so early-ish in the production line.

this is the current state of affairs.
lower ball join is separated but the hub is on it as mentioned before. steering joint also separated just resting on it to stop hub from rotating.
dont worry about the jack. its there as the secondary support, i got the jack stand on the jacking point nearest. to the wheel

[Tuga2112]

There is a easier way just get a CV boot that you glue together it is split down the middle so you cut the old boot to remove it clean all the old grease off fit the new CV boot around the driveshaft and using the glue that comes with the boot glue it together job done.

im assuming this would be the last resourt solution. right ? im not sure if opening up the boot and glueing after is in place will affect much its lifespam?

[Tuga2112]

in green is the position i placed the puller, and in red is pointing out how the joins were when i tried the puller.

will a picture from the side help ?


here are the other pictures i took that were crap, maybe some sense can be made of them.

[alan e]

There is a easier way just get a CV boot that you glue together it is split down the middle so you cut the old boot to remove it clean all the old grease off fit the new CV boot around the driveshaft and using the glue that comes with the boot glue it together job done.

im assuming this would be the last resourt solution. right ? im not sure if opening up the boot and glueing after is in place will affect much its lifespam?

Did one at the beginning of the year still OK the trick is make sure there's no grease on the new boot joint and take your time when you glue the joint I tried pulling the joint apart the glue that comes with the boot is very good

[Brit-Car-Nut]

You can't push the driveshaft out without giving it room to move. The hub STAYS connected to the hub carrier. The hub carrier should be disconnected from the lower ball joint and the track rod end so the assembly can rotate outward on the upper ball joint creating enough room to push the driveshaft out of the hub.

You need to be able to rotate the hub carrier away from the center of the car to push the shaft out. Dave P. is correct that you don't really have to remove the driveshaft from the differential, but it gets tight under the car working on the inner CV boot if you don't.

Click on picture to see full size

It isn't outrageously expensive to get a driveshaft rebuilt in the US, so I tend to want to remove it completely and let the rebuilder go through the unit and replace the CV spiders as well as the boots after checking it out. They know how to put the correct amount of grease back in the boot too. A proper rebuild will last a significant time and you won't have to go through this again for a long while. Sometimes it isn't cost effective to just replace the boots, Over here it is around 60 quid each to get a full rebuild that returns the shaft to as new condition.

I can't find any decent pictures showing the process to remove the driveshaft. If it is really necessary, I can assemble a mock-up driveshaft/hub carrier assembly and take pictures, but it should be clear that you are just trying to push the driveshaft out of the hub.



The shop tool to "pop" the shaft out of the differential gear is a Steck Manufacturing 71410 Axle Popper Kit:
http://www.amazon.com/Steck-Manufacturi ... ring+71410

If this is still something you don't understand, you should drop into a local shop and ask them to show you the process to remove a FWD driveshaft. If the driveshaft is frozen into the front hub, You could also disconnect the hub carrier from the TOP ball joint as well and then pull the hub carrier with the driveshaft together away from the car and take it to a local shop to let them disengage the driveshaft from the hub.

[Tuga2112]

You can't push the driveshaft out without giving it room to move. The hub STAYS connected to the hub carrier. The hub carrier should be disconnected from the lower ball joint and the track rod end so the assembly can rotate outward on the upper ball joint creating enough room to push the driveshaft out of the hub.

You need to be able to rotate the hub carrier away from the center of the car to push the shaft out. Dave P. is correct that you don't really have to remove the driveshaft from the differential, but it gets tight under the car working on the inner CV boot if you don't.

It isn't outrageously expensive to get a driveshaft rebuilt in the US, so I tend to want to remove it completely and let the rebuilder go through the unit and replace the CV spiders as well as the boots after checking it out. They know how to put the correct amount of grease back in the boot too. A proper rebuild will last a significant time and you won't have to go through this again for a long while. Sometimes it isn't cost effective to just replace the boots, Over here it is around 60 quid each to get a full rebuild that returns the shaft to as new condition.

I can't find any decent pictures showing the process to remove the driveshaft.

The shop tool to "pop" the shaft out of the differential gear is a Steck Manufacturing 71410 Axle Popper Kit:
http://www.amazon.com/Steck-Manufacturi ... ring+71410

If this is still something you don't understand, you should drop into a local shop and ask them to show you the process to remove a FWD driveshaft. If the driveshaft is frozen into the front hub, You could also disconnect the hub carrier from the TOP ball joint as well and then pull the hub carrier with the driveshaft together away from the car and take it to a local shop to let them disengage the driveshaft from the hub.

I think i get it now. gonna have to give it another go tomorow, i think the issue is that i left the hub rest on the lower ball join while trying to pull the shaft out of the hub (video i saw on youtube was a bit missleading), im afraid that didnt do any good to the ball joint either, Tomorow after a second attempt (and a new puller) ill drop an update.

[Tuga2112]

one last question, before trying to take the shaft out, should i undo the boot clips ? in order to make it come out easier ?

[Brit-Car-Nut]

If you want to try to rebuild the inner boot while the parts are still installed (Dave P.'s option), then remove the large clip from the inner boot and the inner spider will come apart as you pull the driveshaft.

If you want the whole shaft on your work bench, then don't try to pull the shaft out (it will disassemble the spider assembly inside), rather watch the video(s) and use a prybar, hammer or popping tool to "pop" the inner CV bell out of the differential gear. It isn't easy the first time, so be patient.

[Tuga2112]

the boot that i want to change is the outer, i was referring to the clips on the outer

[Brit-Car-Nut]

Since the boots are usually replaced in sets, I would suggest you do the complete repair and replace BOTH boots. No reason to have to do this all over again in a month because you saved 15 quid...

If you are really not going to replace the inner boot, then you really don't need to pop the driveshaft out of the differential and you probably could just remove the big clip on the outer boot, pull the hub carrier away from the car and the CV joint will disassemble itself. Remove the spider, remove the rest of the old boot, install the new boot, reassemble the spider, put in the new grease and slide the outer driveshaft section in the hub carrier back into place and replace the clips. That will be tedious and awkward, but is the least number of steps to take. Full removal, proper inspection and proper rebuild is the correct way to fix it. I hate having to go back to a difficult repair because I cheated on the process.

[Tuga2112]

i can do the inner boot as well as i already have the boot set, there's no savings to have,
a full rebuild seems a bit overkill solution as there was no reason to suspect there is any damage in the area.

you probably could just remove the big clip on the outer boot, pull the hub carrier away from the car and the CV joint will disassemble itself. Remove the spider, remove the rest of the old boot, install the new boot, reassemble the spider, put in the new grease and slide the outer driveshaft section in the hub carrier back into place and replace the clips.

this is what i intended to do initially as im not very familiar with these kinds of jobs, but i got the second boot incase the job was a pain. i am a bit "scared" of the inner boot replacement.

Full removal, proper inspection and proper rebuild is the correct way to fix it

I agree completely the job should be fully done.
sadly at the moment i have my other car very close to the limit of miles it can do on the insurance policy for the year and the elan off the road. I need the elan back on the road asap in order to ensure my celica will not go over the policy mileage.

I can revisit the job after the insurance policy renews and, im only a month away from the renewal day.

the situation is not ideal for me. and because of the limited mileage insurance policyes i have the elan needs to be nearly a daily runner.

[Tuga2112]

got it out now. had to get another tool (a heavy duty hub puller) and a copper hammer.

getting the boot in place was not dificult and then tying in the clips not much of a problem.
putting the shaft back into the hub was a problem. for some reason it wouldnt want to go back in. but after some grease and cleaning up the little ridges and more grease i managed to get it just far in enough for the hub nut to go in. then the rest of the shaft was put in place by tightening the (new) hub nut.

only issue with reassembly after this was to tight the nuts on the ball joints as both of them were spinning in place. but i already knew a trick for this.

I am not sure if this is an issue or not. but i think the smaller clip was not as tight as it should have been. i can slide the boot at that end. So im going to buy another clip and try again.
the CV boot at the moment is looking a bit off because as i was trying to fit the shaft back to hub i squezed the air out of it and its showing some vacuom efect in the knots.

after all this i put the wheel and started the car...
surprise surprise,
flat battery,

put my spare battery in paralell to jump start the car and everything started fine..... untill
i unplugged the spare battery and the car died straight away.
try again, and same happened but after 2 seconds.
another attempt, and the battery managed to keep the car running for about 5 seconds.

I checked the dashboard. and the battery warning light is not on. and in the voltmeter while the car was running it was recording 14 volts.

I am not sure what is going on,
I am assuming that the alternator is working fine (14 volts is higher than the spare battery was providing)
the only way i can explain the current issue is that the battery is discharging faster than the alternator can charge it, and then voltage drops low enough that we cant get any more sparks.

battery is now charging hopefully i can drive the elan to work tomorow.

and some pictures of the work, just because i took them, not really that i need any help at the moment

[simonbuk]

Pictures of both doors, one before the treatment and one after

So the insert next to the door handle is just glued on ? I've noticed mine is lifting at the edges and was unsure whether to give it an extra tug or not !!

[Tuga2112]

Pictures of both doors, one before the treatment and one after

So the insert next to the door handle is just glued on ? I've noticed mine is lifting at the edges and was unsure whether to give it an extra tug or not !!

no,
those are fit in place using a small threaded screw.
i lost mine so atm they are just clipped in place.

[Tuga2112]

Hello again everybody.

Here is the 2016 chapter of my Elan's MOT SAGA

failure for
all brake discs too worn.
brakes performance too low (im not sure if that was the issue or if it was the fact that the brakes only start properly braking hard when too near the floor)
exhaust leak (last year same happened, suspect its same place)
emissions too high (assuming its gonna go away with the exhaust leak fixed.)

Front discs
not a problem. (already bough a pair to replace with)

Exhaust related fail
Welding the exhaust again is pretty simple job, i just need someone to do it. HOWEVER...
Depending on the cost of an upgrade i may just upgrade the exhaust instead. There is a shop nearby that build exhausts themselves i asked them for a quote. depending on the price. i may get a brand new exhaust.

What is the diameter i should be asking for in order to be ready in the event i decide to upgrade the chip (talking about the boost going up to 1bar thingy)? 2.25 or 2.5 ?
Any ideas what kind of cost would be expected for this ?

Rear discs.
SJ does an alternative disc with hub part that is 67 quid each plus vat (for 160 quid plus postage.)
there is always the original for 225 quid each.. (out of question)
There is no time to wait for another run of custom hubs and sadly i backed out of the last one because of spending all my savings putting a deposit into my house.
Skimming is an option, but i honestly would rather stay away from it. either way last time i checked the kind of cost i was looking at was 50 quid a corner... and this is assuming that mine "can be" skimmed.

Anyone knows of any possible alternative ?

[alan e]

If its the back exhaust box you need i have one you can have if its any help its only done about 200 miles i dont want anything for it i will be happy to get it out of the way.