Whats it Worth

[22rabbits]

So I recently bought a elan with a supposed head gasket issue. Its now been in the mechanic's and he has said the timing belt snapped on it, so could be a simple gasket and seal rebuild or a valve and rebore needed.

The elan is a 1991 with 90k on the clock in dark green and has lacquer peel on the headlights and the rear spoiler. I'll be putting it up for sale as soon as its back with me here in Ireland.

What would you think is a fair price to ask for a car like that described?

[Jamie N]

It would be worth a good bit more fixed than selling as is. Why dont you just take the head off anyway and see what damage has been done?, a broken timing belt on an "interference" engine isn't always castastrophic, although not an Elan i have stripped a good few engines with broken belts and found either no damage, or valves with only very slight damage on them, replaced the valves, lapped them in and have never once had to take the head back off due to any other issues.

A Honda CRX in particular i had in to fix, snapped its belt on the M8 at just over 70mph, a well known interference engine, i removed the broken bits of belt,and just to try and gauge how bad it was I put another belt on it, timed it up ,removed the plugs and turned it over slowly by hand on the crank pulley, couldn't feel anything untoward at all, so after dozens of turns and with permission from the owner i decided to put the plugs back and try starting it, it started first turn of the key!, ran perfectly and compression showed each cylinder within 5psi of each other, that was about 4 years ago and that engine is still running sweet.

Not saying your Elan will be like that but its worth doing a bit of investigating before selling it as a non runner, personally I would put a belt on it and turn it by hand to verify bent valves, if it has (its probable unfortunately but not 100% definite) then I would take the head off and see how bad it is and take it from there.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[CalElan]

take the head off and have a look see.
If the mechanic managed to do a compression test on an engine with a broken belt and didn't realize this, then presumably nothing is hitting anything else.
Do you know what the compression across the cylinders was?

[22rabbits]

:agree: take the head off and have a look see.
If the mechanic managed to do a compression test on an engine with a broken belt and didn't realize this, then presumably nothing is hitting anything else.
Do you know what the compression across the cylinders was?

No compression test was done. it as no compression from the sounds of it but equally it might only sound like that because the timing belt wasn't on. It really needs to go, as i only buy cars to sell them on. So im not going to run the risk of incurring more cost with the mechanic's time

[theelanman]

got any pics?......
from your description probably no more than about £1000 Im afraid

[22rabbits]

got any pics?......
from your description probably no more than about £1000 Im afraid

Maybe I'm describing it negatively its actually fairly good condition, Ill get some photos up near the end of the week when its back with me.

Its not that bad the lacquer peel is only on the lights and rear spoiler and could be sanded back and re-lacquered for very little. If its something that scares off the buyers ill get it done. Its really just a rebuild of the engine. I seen the a kit for the Isuzu 4XE1W engine for sale from the US for about €300. So it should only be a few valves and possibly worst case a re-bore.

[Giniw]

Why don't you do it then?

[22rabbits]

Why don't you do it then?

Time, money and want I only buy cars to flip them and this needs too much time and money for me to take it on.

[Nickydee]

Why don't you do it then?

Time, money and want I only buy cars to flip them and this needs too much time and money for me to take it on.

Whilst I appreciate your honesty, but the fact remains that you have come on this forum in order to obtain advice in respect of repairing and valuing a car which you only wish to trade. Hence pofiterring from the same enthusiasts who you expect to help you for nowt. For that reason I am out!.

[dapinky]

It appears that offers to assist have dried up a bit since you publically stated that you were intending to flip it for a profit.

Whilst I can appreciate your honesty, and there have been others who have gained lots of advice in the past for similar reasons, but without stating their true intentions - this leaves a bit of a bitter taste.

As such, i will offer some (more) advice, but it may not be what you want to hear.

You are a dealer (of some sort or another), and wish to make a profit - no problem with that, as we all have to eat and provide a roof over our heads.

You have a number of options - sell it as it is, tart it up and move it on, or fix it fully and completely.

If I were to be buying it, I'd prefer to buy it 'as is' and fix it up at my own pace, others would prefer one fully sorted....... but very few would want one that is repaired just enough to move it on.

Your best place to shift it is via eBay - and the value/price will be decided by the bidders........ any of whom are free to access this public forum and see these posts before deciding on their bid.

It's a free market - good luck.

(and I hope you didn't pay much for it, because it probably isn't worth a lot)

[Jeemy]

What I don't understand, is if you bought a car with a known or "supposed" head gasket issue, what did you expect?

To be able to fix it quick and turn a £1k car into a £5k car? If you weren't prepared to fix it, then I still don't understand quite what you expected? Perhaps shipping them to Ireland adds a few bucks, but I've bought a lot of cars for customers recently that came from Ireland as there seemed to be cheaper vehicles over there a lot of the time, smaller market perhaps.

[Rambo]

I completely agree with the sentiments of Nickydee, Dapinky and Jeemy

But, to answer, the original question, probably less than £1000 in its present condition

[clemo]

i have an n/a engine / ECU and box ...
not sure the loom would match up though .

It is a turbo elan you have ?

[22rabbits]

i have an n/a engine / ECU and box ...
not sure the loom would match up though .

It is a turbo elan you have ?

Ye its a turbo Elan so as you say the loom might not match but how much would you be looking for the engine? I think I'll try selling as is and if it doesn't then replace the engine seems to be the best option.

As for people disliking the fact i bought to car to sell on, i don't understand your discontent. I came to you the forum to ask advice of replacing a headgasket and possible piston rings, the work needed became a much bigger job and I decided it best to not undertake it but to look at selling with the information of a snapped timing belt.

I came to an enthusiasts forum to acquire information to get a car back on the road for a enthusiast to buy.

[rip]

Replacing the engine is much more work than taking the head off to have a look. You may find that nothing in there has broken.
Clemo is offering an NA engine & box too. As he states, the loom may be different & the ECU definitely is.

[theelanman]

I don't think anyone was having a 'go'....we all understand that people buy and sell cars
we don't have a problem with you making a living as we all must.......

I think people are confused that you are asking for a value for something that is currently broken
and as we have already mentioned....in that sort of state is worth little........

we guess you will not make anything off it in its current state but are willing to help you try to mend it if that's what you wish...
although again you're looking at spending money which will probably ultimately give you a little profit but after considerable work

we are trying to be helpful....honest..

[Dave Eds]

I came to an enthusiasts forum to acquire information to get a car back on the road for a enthusiast to buy.

Can't see anything wrong with that. This is the place where we enthusiasts reside, and where wannabe owners look, no matter what their budget or their mechanical skills. Good luck with whatever you decide, and please don't hesitate to ask more questions.

[Giniw]

Its really just a rebuild of the engine. I seen the a kit for the Isuzu 4XE1W engine for sale from the US for about €300. So it should only be a few valves and possibly worst case a re-bore.

Time, money and want

how much would you be looking for the engine?

Actually what I don't understand is that you say there are rebuilt kits available for as less as €300, but it's too expensive or long or boring for you to install it.
Then you seem prepared to buy an engine and swap it. Do you seriously expect it would be cheaper and easier to do?
Even if clemo gave you the engine for free, the engine swap would cost you more than that!?
As the others I agree we all have to make a living but on the other hand I don't like when a seller says something is an easy/quick fix and he strangely doesn't bother doing it himself.

[22rabbits]

Its really just a rebuild of the engine. I seen the a kit for the Isuzu 4XE1W engine for sale from the US for about €300. So it should only be a few valves and possibly worst case a re-bore.

Time, money and want

how much would you be looking for the engine?

Actually what I don't understand is that you say there are rebuilt kits available for as less as €300, but it's too expensive or long or boring for you to install it.
Then you seem prepared to buy an engine and swap it. Do you seriously expect it would be cheaper and easier to do?
Even if clemo gave you the engine for free, the engine swap would cost you more than that!?
As the others I agree we all have to make a living but on the other hand I don't like when a seller says something is an easy/quick fix and he strangely doesn't bother doing it himself.

I'm not doing it myself because of labour cost! This car is going to be a bargain for someone who can do the work themselves. These cars are getting high in money now so its a good opportunity for someone to get in at a low level. If it is still with me in the new year I'll probably look to replacing the engine but I'd first open it to make sure its easier to replace, as ill be paying a mechanic.

Away for all that negativity as there is not one elan for sale in ireland I looked at the UK market. Out of 9 other cars (ebay, autotrader & pistonheads) all sub £8,000 the average UK price is £5,878 (€6,764) thats for nice running examples some needing very minor work. I ignored 3 cars at £9,995 and 3 others ranging from £11,500 - £17,995

Im currently watching a ebay auction for a car that needs full respray so ill see how that ends on saturady.

Also bringing a car for the UK to ireland would easily be €800-1000 after viewing and towing or recovering home.

So what would you think this none runner would make?

[dapinky]

Rabbits,

I'm not sure what you will get in a 'kit' for £300 - but it isn't likely to be a full enough set to rebuild a damaged engine..... but it is impossible to say until it is stripped down.

Having done a few elan engine re-builds, I feel confident to make such a bold statement, and would need to know exactly what is included before making a statement of "it can be done for £xxx"

For example, depending on damage to the head (if any), it *may* just need a couple of valves, or it may need a full set of 16 - likewise the seats and guides (plus oil seals). That will use up your £300 quite easily. If the head itself needs skimming, it has a tollerance that you can't exceed, so if it has already been done once before, it will now be nowt more than scrap.... again, it needs to come off to measure it.

Any piston damage will cost lots - a single standard size piston may be purchasable at a reasonable cost, but a set of 4 oversize ones will cost over £600 as there are no OE ones left anywhere - and being a turbo, fitting ones designed for an NA will end in tears.

Obviously, a new belt is needed, and it is best to replace waterpump, tensioner and idler at the same time (if you don't then any future owner may be out off a purchase as the labour times will far exceed the parts prices for those items).

I havent even mentioned the bottom end of the engine, as it is unlikely to be 'needed' - but if you're having to fit pistons, then it would be false economy to NOT replace the crank bearings (crank is unlikely to need attention as they are toughened and hardened from new - standard shells are all I've ever needed.).

The machine work to skim a head and re-bore for larger pistons will be whatever you can get it for - I pay about £200 for the lot here, but can't comment on prices near you.

All the gaskets , fluids, sealants etc can throw another £200+ into the mix.

Labour isn't an issue to me as it 'costs' me nowt, but if I had to pay for the removal, repair and replacement it would cost quite a bit.

As such, getting it done may well cost over £2K.

Unless you can shave off money on labour costs, and are lucky with the damage internally, a second-hand engine is probably your best bet to get it mobile enough to move the car along - however, part of the 'value' of your car is the reasonable mileage for its age, which will de-value if an 'unknown' engine is fitted.

The 'proper' answer is to rebuild the engine, tidy up the paintwork and advertise it - or sell as it is.... overall costs/profits/losses may well be pretty similar whichever option you go for - the choice is yours.