Sump Replacement or repair

[dapinky]

Also when removing the old sump it had a gasket in place, all feedback I've had says no gasket but to use gasket sealer and even manual says this so I'm a little confused to find it had one on.

When Paul blew a piston and had it rebored/rebuilt the gasket set included one for the sump....

... having read the workshop manual at the time, we decided that it would do no harm to use it on the engine and see what happened (if it didn't seal it would have been a relatively easy job to remove the sump and refit without a gasket.)

The only real concern to me at the time was if it spaced the actual sump too far down and caused it to hit the prongeron - but it didn't, so it stayed there.

(There wasn't one fitted when the engine was first dismantled)

[Rob P]

:shock: Ouch what the hell did you hit ?
Oil filters vary in depth depending who makes them
Don't throw that sump away

Steve
The sump had a few scratches and minor indentations but the major damage was a rock the size of a cobblestone which we came to blows with on the A702 heading across to Edinburgh, we were following a large white van when the object just appeared in the middle of the road and I had not time to avoid it (traffic in the opposite direction didn't give me much options either
Have spend a bit of time with the dolly's and hammer set this morning and the dents are out of the sump and it just needs the small hole welding up and it could be held in store as an emergency replacement. I will finish tidying it up and post some piccy's
Rob P

[Rob P]

Also when removing the old sump it had a gasket in place, all feedback I've had says no gasket but to use gasket sealer and even manual says this so I'm a little confused to find it had one on.

When Paul blew a piston and had it rebored/rebuilt the gasket set included one for the sump....
... having read the workshop manual at the time, we decided that it would do no harm to use it on the engine and see what happened (if it didn't seal it would have been a relatively easy job to remove the sump and refit without a gasket.)
The only real concern to me at the time was if it spaced the actual sump too far down and caused it to hit the prongeron - but it didn't, so it stayed there.
(There wasn't one fitted when the engine was first dismantled)

Cheers Dave
I'll be going down the gasket sealer route when I pop the replacement on, thanks for highlighting how there came to be a gasket on it, funny that there was one supplied though if the manual says to use gasket sealer, another Lotus Oddity I assume

[dapinky]

The gaskets were provided by the engine recon guys - I don't know the history of them (but i do know that we threw the HG in the corner and used a genuine Lotus one!)

[Steve A]

:shock: Ouch what the hell did you hit ?
Oil filters vary in depth depending who makes them
Don't throw that sump away

Steve
The sump had a few scratches and minor indentations but the major damage was a rock the size of a cobblestone which we came to blows with on the A702 heading across to Edinburgh, we were following a large white van when the object just appeared in the middle of the road and I had not time to avoid it (traffic in the opposite direction didn't give me much options either
Have spend a bit of time with the dolly's and hammer set this morning and the dents are out of the sump and it just needs the small hole welding up and it could be held in store as an emergency replacement. I will finish tidying it up and post some piccy's
Rob P

That's really bad luck, what are the chances of that, it must have fallen from a lorry with an unsecured load
Your lucky it didn't do more damage.

[Rob P]

The gaskets were provided by the engine recon guys - I don't know the history of them (but i do know that we threw the HG in the corner and used a genuine Lotus one!)

That sounds like a wise move Dave, I'll sleep happier knowing you do exactly that

Rain has stopped play (Note to self, get those Classic Mini's finished so the Garage can be used for the Lotus's). However we did manage to clean the Progeron (need to repaint it, was going to use POR15, but does one leave it black or then spray it Grey again?). Also knocked out the indents in the damaged sump, not looking too bad but will need to weld up the small hole in it.

Cleaned up Prongeron.jpg

Repairs to sump.jpg

Repairs to sump 1.jpg

[dapinky]

Well, I left my prongeron black, but I know others have kept them grey....

.... Black won't show up all of the oilly gunk like grey does - but that is a double-edged sword as once you get it that clean, you will want to keep it that way, and mine will gradually worsen without being seen (but will also get rust-proofed along the way).

[Rob P]

Well, I left my prongeron black, but I know others have kept them grey....

.... Black won't show up all of the oilly gunk like grey does - but that is a double-edged sword as once you get it that clean, you will want to keep it that way, and mine will gradually worsen without being seen (but will also get rust-proofed along the way).

Cheers Dave,
Think I'll go with the POR15 and leave it black, need to find some stickers for highlighting this isn't a jacking point.
Also taking the opportunity to replace the damaged exhaust piping as well, managed to speak to CYBOX and they have agreed to sell me just the front pipe which was a result. Thanks to there's only on f in Geof Smith for the feedback on that from another post
Miserable weather here in Preston so looks like no work on the car today so will do some work on the En-Suite which was neglected over the weekend

[Artaban]

Have just done mine and left it black. Also sprayed Fluid Film inside it as it was off the car. The "Do Not Jack" labels are available from SJ's at £11.30 +VAT postage etc which is not cheap so I only bought one. However I don't think it makes any difference as it had only been on a week when the car needed an MOT and the guy jacked the car up...guess where... on the prongeron right where I had put the sticker so I had to tell him politely to move the jack. I had to be polite as he was doing the MOT. This was a jack on a car lift as well so he was walking under the car looking for a place to lift the front wheels.

Wondering if I should use some fluorescent paint to highlight the jacking points as it might be easier to show them where to jack the car rather than where not to. Either that or floodlight the sticker.

Andy

[dapinky]

With regards to the 'no lift' stickers.....

.... I've got Flourescent arrows pointing at the lifting points with a 'Lift Here' Decal (from fleabay).

And various other 'no lift' stickers on the Prongeron and sump guard.

no-jack.jpg

Just print onto white vinyl at whatever size you want, then cover over with a circle of 3m Clear film (like the stuff for your paint protection).

[Rob P]

Finally managed to complete the replacement sump after picking up the replacement down pipe for the Exhaust, had to drop the whole exhaust to fit the new downpipe and front section but this did mean I could align the rear box section better into the opening in the rear bumper.
Prongeron slotted on nicely and all looking good currently, need a nice long drive to test the car, currently just taken it a few miles to check that the sudden loss of Oil hadn't caused any major issues, sounded a little tappety on start up but once warmed up the car sounded much like it had before the sump damage.

Next job is to work out how to protect the sump for the future, will be reviewing Dave P's topics over the coming days to see whether that can be done before I take the car over to Italy via the Swiss alps

Great to have the little car back on the road, thanks for all the tips and advice on the removal and replacement process

[Rob P]

Piccy of the new sump and exhaust in place

IMG_1495.JPG

Checked for any leaks and none to be seen so now looking forward to taking the car to Oulton park for the Gold cup over the weekend and then it's off to Italy via a few of those wonderful European passes

[Rob P]

Well after checking the new sump a few weeks ago I was horrified to find that it had already suffered a few scrapes and bumps so having been through the damaged sump and trailer home syndrome I thought I would try and see whether a sump Guard could be created.
As mentioned in another post I found two captive bolt holes at the front of the Prongeron

IMG_2298.JPG

With these as the front mounting I then made a template out out Ply to see if I could create enough clearance without making it ultra low.

IMG_2324.JPG

Then I found a local Aluminium fabricator who would make me up the following in 4mm Aluminium sheet.

IMG_2335.JPG

Had to add the holes at the front myself to ensure correct lining up but I think the whole thing looks OK. Important thing is it has a bit of clearance to the Exhaust and Sump and isn't much lower so should be a safe gaurd for the sump and also the gearbox housing on the otherside of the progeron, Mine has a couple of chunks out of it at the lowest point.

IMG_2337.JPG

IMG_2338.JPG

I have also added a hole to allow the sump to be drained without removing the Sump Guard and as the filter is accessed from the side then an oil change should still be ok to be done without removal.

IMG_2339.JPG

Finally I took the car out to see if there was any adverse effect or whistling with this in place and lo and behold it was all fine. Totl weight of the sump guard is just over 6lbs so not overly heavy and offset by the hardware taken off when I changed out the Dustbin filter for the K&N filter.

[HJ2]

More pictures please!
Looks promising!

[tb10]

Hi Rob,

That looks very good indeed. I know that there was a proposal to do this before (Dave P IIRC?) but good stuff. I feel a group buy coming on!!!



Regards

John

[dapinky]

..... I know that there was a proposal to do this before (Dave P IIRC?) but good stuff. I feel a group buy coming on!!!

Mine has been on for nearly 2 years now - never had any knocking on the engine/exhaust, and never scraped the ground during 'normal' driving (one slight scrape getting onto the MOT ramp, but nowt else.

Definitely worth doing for peace of mind.

Mine is more 'bespoke' than this one (''cos i smashed the ally panel with a hammer to fit my car!), and held in a little more firmly (probably over-done, like most of my "engineering").

It does have to come off for an oil change, but it is a 3 minute job due to the fixings I have now got on it.

[Rob P]

Well after running the car through the summer with the sump guard in place I haven't had any issues and the car hasn't overheated or anything drastic so I think it is doing the job. I have scraped a few sleeping policemen and speed bumps along the way and without any issues. Also managed to do an oil change along the way and drained the oil without removing the unit. sadly having issues removing the Oil filter mean't there was oil drips on the inside of the sump guard so removed it to clean this up.

Therefore thought I would share drawing I made in case anyone wanted to have a go at adding the same modification

Lotus Elan M100 Sump Guard.jpg

[Steve A]

[Mike T]

Just for info - SJ Sportscars have new sumps from Lotus on order. Not sure how many are available but I've been promised a delivery date of first week of December. Might have a go at making a guard as well with such a helpful drawing. Thanks for that.

[simonbuk]

Sump removed, again as per the manual, only issue I had was I needed to also remove a half round plate covering the lower half of the clutch housing hiding the Ring Gear as this plate had a lip covering the last two nuts holding the sump in place.

Have just found this plate, after removing a couple of screws it looks like it is sandwiched in between the gearbox and engine ? It should just pull away should it ?