EU Referendum and changing the alternator

[lotusflasherman]

'WTF' I hear you ask... Well, it's all about 'decisions, decisions, decisions'... the EU Referendum is a simple Yes or NO (or maybe abstain!) - and that's the end of that topic

Changing the alternator -

I mentioned a few months ago that my Charge Fail Warning Light was playing up and going on and off intermittently forum.lotuselancentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=24460&start=20#p312460. Other things settled down with just the light on sometimes but buying a new battery sorted it out for a few months, to a certain extent anyway. It's been behaving OK usually but CFWL occasionally came on at low revs though would always go out above 2,000 rpm. When 'on' Voltmeter shows about 12V, so battery only, but rev above 2,000 and light goes out and volts creep up to 14V so the alternator has finally kicked in. This behaviour leads me to suspect the voltage regulator pack (age related failure), rather than brushes (usually wear related) as this car has only done 47.3k miles.

On any normal car I'd identify the exact problem with some test equipment on the alternatotr in situ, prior to removing it to fix it as the alternator is easy to get at, but that's certainly not the case on the M100.
During this last week the CFWL started staying on up to full revs .. and then went off again, but comes on randomly so have no faith in my ability to do a long journey in the car. (Sod's Law etc)

Consequently I have just ordered a new one www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161971139472?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 and will then refurb the original to keep as a spare. Also has the advantage that if I 'jiggle' the old one out, I've got half a chance of 'jiggling' the new one in before I forget how I did it.

ebay says I should get the new one on Tuesday so thought I would consider how I'm going to change the alternator ...

The Lotus Manual just states 'the bleeding obvious', I paraphrase a bit but " Disconnect battery, disconnect electrical connections, release bolts and withdraw' is not much help. 'Remove oil filter if necessary for improved access' is a useful hint that it's awkward to get out.

I've found some 'helpful experiences' in various places on here ... The oracle in Wikilec seems to be wikilec.9600.org/index.php/Alternator
and also in threads from :

HJ2 and dapinky (Hi Dave) forum.lotuselancentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=16507&start=80#p222866 - remove oil filter and Power Steering Reservoir.

absm100 forum.lotuselancentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=23767#p299354 - remove crank pulley, right hand engine mounting and drop engine.

cliff forum.lotuselancentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=19040&start=180#p315567 - remove prongeron. (Though I'm not sure Cliff has his exhaust pipes on at this stage. Had you Cliff?)

how many ways to skin a cat are there?

It does look like 'changing the alternator' has some unavoidable 'project creep' but looking through my papers I see this oil & filter has done 5,700 miles in just over 2 years so new oil and filter won't be an extravagance, alternator belt was new at that time so can stay but can't see when the power steering fluid was last changed so draining that and renewing wouldn't go amiss either.

As I don't have oil or filter yet I'm wondering about maybe trying 'the prongeron route' to see if that restricts the job to just 'changing the alternator' but will involve a lot of lying underneath on my back... what do you think?

opinions / suggestions cordially invited ...

[Brit-Car-Nut]

Phil: I just sent you an email (X2) with some links to PDFs with directions for changing the alternator as well as pdf copies for your local files. One by ESM that doesn't say to remove the filter and two by Loren that say remove the filter.

I will make the Loren guides visible on the manuals page as soon as I can find the time but the ESM version is already there titled "Process to replace the alternator".

[cliff]

Hi Phil

I only connected the alternator with the prongeron removed, the exhaust was still fitted. I replaced the alternator in situ but during the suspension overhaul, the RH raft was already off.

viewtopic.php?f=79&t=19040&start=60

[lotusflasherman]

Hi Phil

I only connected the alternator with the prongeron removed, the exhaust was still fitted. I replaced the alternator in situ but during the suspension overhaul, the RH raft was already off.

viewtopic.php?f=79&t=19040&start=60

Thanks Cliff. So were you just connecting the wiring? Does the alternator come out & in through the offside wheel arch still, or can you drop it down behind the gearbox with the prongeron off? If through the wheel arch, does the wheel arch liner have to come off? Previous owner of my car has coated everything, and I mean everything (steel/aluminium/rubber/fibreglass) in Dinitrol / Waxoyl and I'm still looking for bolt-heads for wheel arch liner... I hate him when I work on it but love him when I see the state of rust on some cars. Hate to think how much extra weight I'm carrying.

[lotusflasherman]

Phil: I just sent you an email (X2) with some links to PDFs with directions for changing the alternator as well as pdf copies for your local files. One by ESM that doesn't say to remove the filter and two by Loren that say remove the filter.

I will make the Loren guides visible on the manuals page as soon as I can find the time but the ESM version is already there titled "Process to replace the alternator".

Thanks. I had found the ESM method - I referred to that as the 'oracle in Wikilec', and followed links to Loren's procedure and saw that referred to removing Oxygen sensor, which I don't have on a UK SE, the dipstick and to take hose of the power steering pump. As that referred to LHD US model I thought I'd stick to UK related methods.

Looks like the ESM method is to get power steering reservoir and pipes out of the way and go in through the front right wheel arch. New alternator arrives on Tuesday but so does 'cold weather and wintry showers' according to the weather man.

[cliff]

Phil,

not really sure as I had everything out of the wheel arch already.

[muley]

So, 90% of the way there with my alternator swap.

How in the name of thundering heck do I replace the upper alternator adjustment bolt (technically it's a set screw but you know the one I mean). I just can't get my reasonably sized fingers in there to to insert the bolt. I've been trying for an hour but no luck.

Any hints or tips?

Otherwise, just give me some more swear words.


Jim

[lotusflasherman]

I had mine up on a scissor lift and had removed the power steering reservoir - thought I'd take the opportunity to replace a large proportion of the fluid. Makes it a convenient height to go in the top without backache and get underneath without of a struggle. With the reservoir out of the way, I don't remember the adjustments bolts were particularly tricky.

Swear words you can use in company are "EccleFECHAN" (it's only a village between Lockerbie & Gretna) and "King Hell", which is close but not actually that 'well known phrase or saying '...

[muley]

I had mine up on a scissor lift and had removed the power steering reservoir - thought I'd take the opportunity to replace a large proportion of the fluid. Makes it a convenient height to go in the top without backache and get underneath without of a struggle. With the reservoir out of the way, I don't remember the adjustments bolts were particularly tricky.

scissor lift.jpg

Swear words you can use in company are "EccleFECHAN" (it's only a village between Lockerbie & Gretna) and "King Hell", which is close but not actually that 'well known phrase or saying '...

Phil

Thanks, forgot to say the PAS reservoir is out of the way. Ho hum onwards and upwards


Jim

[dapinky]

Jim,

It is a fair while since I did the job, but I can't remember there being a huge issue with getting the bolts in (with the PAS things moved) - can't remember if it was from top or bottom.... so basically, I'm no help to you at all

[muley]

Jim,

It is a fair while since I did the job, but I can't remember there being a huge issue with getting the bolts in (with the PAS things moved) - can't remember if it was from top or bottom.... so basically, I'm no help to you at all

That's unusual.. ..I'll take a swig of 'man-up juice' and have another go.

Thanks

Jim

[Rambo]

Otherwise, just give me some more swear words

Fuckityboom !

The Dutch babe that I garden for loves a bit of that

Sorry, can't help with your alternator problem but at least you have another swear word that will make you smile

PS Remind me to tell you the story Jim (if I haven't already countless times) next Silverstone

PPS Does Jen know you're having trouble getting your bolt in

[lotusflasherman]

Thought maybe an update on this thread with a few comments on my experiences of replacing the alternator might help those about to start -

First, it generates 'project creep' - it's much easier to remove the oil filter for access to the alternator from below (the Manual says so too) so an oil & filter change are obvious things to do. From the top the Power Steering reservoir needs to be unbolted and pipe clips released for it to be pushed out the way, but why not remove it and lower the pipes and get probably more than 50% of the fluid out the system. I've seen something in the Manual (HC2 Page 5) that warns air in the system can damage the pump and a procedure for cranking the engine with the inertia trip switched when it's been drained thoroughly as part of a fluid change. So my thinking is change 50% twice as often and avoid having to prime the pump. Vauxhall dealer told me GM Dexron VI is the current evolution of the PS fluid quoted in the Manual that is suitable for the Elan. Bought my Elan a few miles from Kelvedon Motors so it went straight there for cambelt, PS belt, alternator belt and a big service a couple of years ago so after inspecting the alternator belt it went back on as it was still perfect, but otherwise it's a good opportunity to fit a new alternator belt. ( I use a Burroughs gauge to tension my belt but it should be tight enough to not slip but not so tight to wear the alternator bearings. Should get about 1/2" of deflection on the length to the crank pulley and slipping produces a squeal just after starting when it's trying to put full charge back into the battery.)

The alternator is not too challenging to unbolt if you have a decent range of tools but feeding it out alongside the O/S driveshaft is like doing a Rubik's cube. I bought my replacement before I started so as soon as I got the old one out I started feeding the new one in but still got the sequence of twisting and turning wrong. It's a very tight fit so I wouldn't try that route with a higher output alternator as it may well be a millimetre or two wider that proves critical. So it's not necessary to remove the prongeron but that remains an option some people use. (There's a thread on here by a U.S. owner who fitted a higher output alternator on the engine before installation and then was having trouble removing it with engine in situ. Think he was going to try removing prongeron but haven't seen an update).

I thought I'd get the old alternator repaired as its unreliable behaviour had suggested it was a voltage regulation problem but it did have a slight acrid smell of burnt insulation. Took it to a repair shop and the guy sniffed it, shoved a pipe cleaner into the winding and said "Burnt out. They don't like having Waxoyl in them", as he shook out a lot of burnt insulation. So that's another thing the previous owner had Waxoyled ...

[CalElan]

the thought of a waxoiled alternator gave me a chuckle if that makes you feel any better.. I guess probably not.
EVERY job on this car leads to project creep, I think it's the only car with a 10 page write up on how to empty the ashtray, AND now you have me really looking forward to my alternator going kaput!

[dapinky]

CalElan,

It isn't as bad as some people will have you believe, but you are quite right - it's no more ovearall work than emptying the ashtray

[muley]

Jim,

It is a fair while since I did the job, but I can't remember there being a huge issue with getting the bolts in (with the PAS things moved) - can't remember if it was from top or bottom.... so basically, I'm no help to you at all

That's unusual.. ..I'll take a swig of 'man-up juice' and have another go.

Thanks

Jim

Sorted. 1/2 time in Wales vs Japan. Used a mirror (from an Xmas cracker) to check alternator was lined up, wedged set screw into long 12mm ratchet spanner held in place with long screw driver and screwed (gentle) away.

Belts and crank pulley on and we'll be done..


Jim

[GeoffSmith]

The Dutch babe that I garden for loves a bit of that

Next time you trim her bush, tell her you're a Ouwe Viespeuk†

† Courtesy of HJ