ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby Rambo » Thu 05.01.2017, 10:43

lotusflasherman wrote:
RonR wrote:Calypso 1990 SE Turbo - Here

Looks good with S2 Wheels, may in fact be a great car, but the ad doesn't mention that it was a Cat D write off in 2005, which would have saved me the cost of an HPI check. :x


Not sure about that ... seems to have a bit of trouble at MOT time... :lol: Put MCD94W in here, it's interesting reading ... https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/


Particularly 2008 :shock:

How did you get the reg. no. from the advert Phil ? I had been trying to do that but couldn't see it as the car seemed to have been quite cleverly photographed

If you are still interested in the car Ron, braking issues aside, the smell of petrol from the rear of the car in 2012 would concern me a bit. It may have had a cracked filler neck so check that this has been repaired and/or complete fuel tank has been replaced. I would, just for peace of mind
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby Rob P » Thu 05.01.2017, 10:49

Rambo wrote:How did you get the reg. no. from the advert Phil ? I had been trying to do that but couldn't see it as the car seemed to have been quite cleverly photographed


Pictures 1 and 6 allow for correct gathering of the Reg,
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby Rambo » Thu 05.01.2017, 10:49

Incidentally, a lot of those MOT failures concerning brakes are fairly common. I suspect the car has/still has OEM calipers front and back and that they have not been given any attention before MOT time

The failure of the horn for sounding harsh or grating made me laugh. Seemed to be a little picky ?
Last edited by Rambo on Thu 05.01.2017, 10:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby Rambo » Thu 05.01.2017, 10:52

Rob P wrote:
Rambo wrote:How did you get the reg. no. from the advert Phil ? I had been trying to do that but couldn't see it as the car seemed to have been quite cleverly photographed


Pictures 1 and 6 allow for correct gathering of the Reg,


Those were the photos I was looking at Rob but I couldn't make out the first 3 letters clearly on my basic smart phone :?
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby Rambo » Thu 05.01.2017, 11:04

surfboardfiller wrote:
Rambo wrote:
RonR wrote:Calypso 1990 SE Turbo - Here

Looks good with S2 Wheels, may in fact be a great car, but the ad doesn't mention that it was a Cat D write off in 2005, which would have saved me the cost of an HPI check. :x


You need to report the advert to PissedonHeads as it is illegal to sell a cat C/D car without mentioning it in the advert. You can easily do this by clicking on the tab on the bottom right of the advert


Can you point to the legislation that backs this up?


Sorry Phil, just seen your post

I think it is covered under the misrepresentation act. Well, I'm sure it is in Scotland anyway as we have a different legal system north of Hadrian's wall. I have 3 friends in the trade so will check
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby surfboardfiller » Thu 05.01.2017, 12:07

It clearly says SE in the description.

All the info about specifications beyond the description is the usual default Pistonheads s**t they put in from their database full of wrong information.

I don't see what all the fuss is about but I guess it keeps you all off the streets :lol:
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby Fredjohn » Thu 05.01.2017, 13:19

surfboardfiller wrote:It clearly says SE in the description.

All the info about specifications beyond the description is the usual default Pistonheads s**t they put in from their database full of wrong information.

I don't see what all the fuss is about but I guess it keeps you all off the streets :lol:


Phil, the issue, and Rambo's point, was the failure to declare it a former Cat D, not the SE or N/A spec. I agree that people invariably pick up the wrong car details when filling in the pistonhead ad form. Think though that the majority of regulars on here, (incl us! but not the average buyer unless they do some research or come onto LEC) can work out from the photos what the spec really is. As you say, just a bit of banter to fill the day for us retirees :D :D :D

Would however be interested to know the legal requirements of Cat C/D etc declaration on ads in England, and the rest of the UK for that matter.
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby surfboardfiller » Thu 05.01.2017, 16:12

Yes I am interested and doubtful it is illegal as Rambo stated.

IMHO There is far too much emphasis on weather something is declared Cat C/D considering it isn't a legal device; it is only a definition as to whether a car was 'too expensive to repair' in the opinion of an insurance company at a certain time, or not.
Especially considering the requirement to have the car repaired with new replacement parts, and the scam that is often the case with crash repair shops.
I have sold Cat C/D cars before for full market value because there was nothing wrong with them, they were undoubtedly better for the new parts and full re-spray.
I wouldn't be surprised if none of the cars I have ever owned were collision/claim free as none of them were new.

Obviously my contribution is keeping me off the streets too. :-D
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby dapinky » Thu 05.01.2017, 16:21

It may well be different in Scottishland, but in England & Wales there is no requirement (that I know if) to declare a Cat C or D in any advert.

Obviously, if it were a Cat B or above, then the car can't ever go back on the road anyway, so that would be a seperate issue.

It *may* come under the provisions of the Fraud Act 2006, but only if the seller was aware of the issue, and then deliberately lied about it when asked.

It is always worth spending out on an HPI check anyway when spending strong money on a car - and as online checks are under a tenner it is fairly painless to do.

The Legal principle of 'Caveat Emptor' always applies - and for those whose Latin is rusty, "Buyer Beware".
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby GeoffSmith » Thu 05.01.2017, 16:44

Autotrader wrote:Should the person who sold me the vehicle have said it is in Cat C?

If you bought the vehicle from a dealer then they should have told you its insurance status. You may be able to make a claim against them.

Private sellers do not have to tell you about the Cat C status. If you ask, they must tell you of any problems they know about — but maybe they didn't know either.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/safety_and_ ... categories
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby surfboardfiller » Thu 05.01.2017, 17:23

Autotrader are not law makers so this doesn't show either way if it's law. They do however have an agreement with advertisers who are required to conform to it when advertising with them.

Rambo stated it was law and I asked for him (or anyone) to back this up so we know the facts.

What you are selling must be as described, the description becomes part of the 'contract of sale'. I got a full refund when buying a Motorbike because it was advertised as full service history only to find out it had not been serviced according to the guidelines set out by the manufacturer in the handbook, this was a breech of contract. I don't believe it was a criminal offence to do this, just not lawful.
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby simonbuk » Thu 05.01.2017, 19:35

surfboardfiller wrote:What you are selling must be as described, the description becomes part of the 'contract of sale'. I got a full refund when buying a Motorbike because it was advertised as full service history only to find out it had not been serviced according to the guidelines set out by the manufacturer in the handbook, this was a breech of contract. I don't believe it was a criminal offence to do this, just not lawful.


Wow, thats quite an achievement ! Was it advertised by a garage or private seller ?
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby Rambo » Thu 05.01.2017, 19:47

Looks like the can of worms is open...

Salient points in bold

"Buying a Cat C car or Cat D car

It’s legal to sell a Cat C or D car as long as its status is declared. Even so, they’re much cheaper – possibly as much as 50% cheaper – because there’s a stigma attached to them and they’ll need repairing.

This stigma will remain with the car even after it’s repaired, because Cat C or D status stays with the vehicle and must always be declared when it’s offered for sale. This will mean it always fetches a lower price.

Not everyone is convinced about the merits of buying a Cat C or D car. Neil Hodson, managing director of car history check firm HPI, cautions that “the real risk with buying a write-off is paying good money for a vehicle that's been badly repaired and is a danger to drive, or worse still, should never have been put back on the road in the first place. If a write-off hasn’t been properly repaired, any price is too high.” On the other hand, Hodson concedes “there are write-off categories that, if repaired professionally, offer good value for buyers”.

Others are more doubtful still. Trading Standards officer Gerry Taylor says that buyers should avoid Cat C and D cars since the risk they haven’t been repaired properly is too high and an imperfect repair could affect crash performance.

Write-off engineer reports

Despite all this, you may still want to buy a Cat C or D car. In that case, have it inspected by a trained motor engineer employed by organisations such as the AA and RAC.

The engineer will inspect the car and tell you all you need to know about its condition, crashworthiness and any problems lurking within it that aren’t obvious to the untrained eye.

It won’t be cheap, but if the worst happens a report could be offered as evidence in court. In any case, insurers generally insist on an engineer’s report before they’ll consider insuring a Cat C or D vehicle.

Selling a Cat C car or Cat D car

You must declare the car’s Cat C or Cat D status when selling it or part-exchanging it. If you don’t, the new owner could sue you for damages.


Insuring a Cat C car or Cat D car

Don’t expect insuring your Cat C or D car will be straightforward. Some insurers won’t consider covering such a car and those that do may charge a higher premium. An engineer’s inspection report will certainly smooth the way.

What the law says

Thanks to the Consumer Rights Act 2015, car buyers are better protected, since the law states that any goods purchased should be ‘of satisfactory quality’, ‘fit for purpose’ and ‘as described’.

If you were unwittingly sold a car the seller knew to be a Cat C or D, the seller is in breach of the last requirement. Even if the seller was unaware of the car’s status, it’s still not of satisfactory quality or fit for purpose. It also falls foul of the ‘innocent misrepresentation’ clause of the Misdescriptions Act.

Either way, you would have grounds to take legal action against the seller.
Of course, they may immediately offer you a refund, but you’d be wise to tell Trading Standards to protect future customers"
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby surfboardfiller » Thu 05.01.2017, 23:50

It is indeed a can of worms.
It looks like there is no actual legislation making it 'illegal' just a lot of peoples opinion implying it is illegal without being able to substantiate it.

The concern seems to be aimed at cars with monocoque chassis that are 'repaired' but these should not be Cat C/D but Cat B.

The plain and obvious fact is that a car can be crashed and not categorised as 'un economic repair' but be in the same condition of a car that can be repaired economically, as its based on the pre crash value minus the quote for repairing it. Its a category of economy not safety.

Cat C/D is a marker put on the car when it was damaged which is technically irrelevant after a repair.

If the car was damaged beyond safety it would be a Cat B which is illegal to sell as a road going vehicle because it is not legally permitted to go back on the road and should not be issued with a V5c by our friends at the DVLA.

I am drawing closer to the conclusion that it isn't illegal despite the fireworks.
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby lotusflasherman » Fri 06.01.2017, 01:43

Rambo wrote:How did you get the reg. no. from the advert Phil ? I had been trying to do that but couldn't see it as the car seemed to have been quite cleverly photographed


Got the letters from some photos and the numbers from others and just put them together... simples... :bananasex:

Must admit I'm bemused by an owner who can put a car in for an MOT with so many obvious and simple to fix faults ... :smt017 and then resubmit it 2 years later with them still there (Hazard Flashers) ... :banghead:
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby simonbuk » Fri 06.01.2017, 12:21

Has this one been mentioned ? Another nice low mileage one appears !!

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/ ... es/6609086
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby Rob P » Fri 06.01.2017, 12:37

simonbuk wrote:Has this one been mentioned ? Another nice low mileage one appears !!
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/ ... es/6609086


Wow that's very expensive in my opinion even it it does have a low mileage, give the prices that high mileage cars can fetch (which isn't much for the amount of car you get) if one was to purchase and run this it would likely depreciate at a similar rate to a new car, or am I reading the whole thing wrong?

Don't get me wrong, I love these cars, the way they drive the way they look and obviously because I picked mine up for a decent price. I have spent a fair bit on the car keeping it on the road and tidying up and modifying where I felt necessary but if I was looking to spend upward of £15k I think I'd be looking at the Elise S1 market.

Please dont shoot me for mentioning the Elise on here, it is after all just my thoughts :(
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby simonbuk » Fri 06.01.2017, 13:57

I totally agree !! I think anything north of 10K and you really need to be looking at what other types of car you could buy. Many other second hand sports to buy that you could have a lot of fun in !!

As soon as you start using it it would depreciate in value, especially as you have purchased it from a dealer.
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby theelanman » Fri 06.01.2017, 14:48

it says its 123bhp Normally Aspirated in the ad....
the badge on the back says SE which denotes 160bhp turbo.....
with just a couple of average pic of the outside who knows what it is........

and if its got AirCon then its even rarer.......(it was an option but there are few in the UK that fitted it.....think it was quite popular in the hot places of Oz and the USA)

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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby simonbuk » Fri 06.01.2017, 15:13

theelanman wrote:it says its 123bhp Normally Aspirated in the ad....


Thats just a Pistonhead default as I don't think it lists the turbo ? I do however believe the person creating the advert can amend it. Surprised they have received gold stars from the local trading standards !!
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