OUCH!!!!!!

[lotusles]

Beware of the new regulations regarding speeding and the means testing process.
I have just been slapped with 6 points and a £575 fine for doing 86 on a motorway

I am told the penalty has been reduced because I pleaded guilty, so hate to think what it would have been otherwise.

[Giniw]

Wow! (instead of 70 mph?)
That's crazy ... :/

[lotusles]

Wow! (instead of 70 mph?)
That's crazy ... :/

Yes its a SP50 so not even dangerous driving. I actually thought I was going to get a ban as the new paperwork only states its a non custodial offence
I'm also convinced the 6 points was because i had a clean licence. Nothing beats the shock tactics.
What has also pi??ed me off is the offence was in Feb but they used the new ruling for the penalty. I was assured that the conviction would take a long time to be actioned as the courts are very busy.

[dapinky]

Les,

whilst I feel your pain, can you clarify that this was in a 50mph speed limit, not on a 70mph stretch?

(I take my clue from the SP50 code).....

[simonbuk]

Oh man thats bad news !!

Just Googled stuff and an SP50 is indeed for speeding on a motorway - looks like they have tightened up !!

[Saltire]

Les,

whilst I feel your pain, can you clarify that this was in a 50mph speed limit, not on a 70mph stretch?

(I take my clue from the SP50 code).....

and second the remarks of the honourable gentleman.

As the resident magistrate, I've checked the guidelines we have to abide by, which came into force on 24th April this year. If you were doing 86 in a 50-limited stretch - which is what I infer - it's 6 points or up to 56 days disqualification and an income related fine equivalent to 1.5 times your declared weekly income (assumed to be £440 a week if you don't say). You will typically get 1/3 off for pleading guilty. You may also be asked to pay costs and a victim surcharge. All magistrates court fines are income-related, not just speeding.

Disclaimers:

1) individual courts will consider all the aggravating and mitigating factors before deciding on a sentence
2) I only apply the rules, I don't make them; please don't the messenger

[simonbuk]

But an SP50 is for speeding on motorways...........

[Artaban]

Jonathan,
Can you confirm that you have the option not to disclose your income? Can they demand to see wage slips or is there an upper limit on what they consider the weekly income to be. Only asking as using £440 would be a lot better for some than their actual weekly income.
Andy

[Dave Eds]

Did you not just apply for a fixed penalty and £100 fine with 3 points? Or did you dispute it?

I got caught in April and took the fixed penalty option as I was guilty as charged (81mph in a 70mph on a motorway) and was unable to do a speed awareness course/workshop as I'd done one in the previous 3 years.

Can't see any mention of an SP code on the notice or on my licence.

[Saltire]

But an SP50 is for speeding on motorways...........

The SP50 code is irrelevant in court - it's a code which is applied to your licence after the event to record the offence you were convicted of. We only look at the offence (speeding) the circumstances, and the amount you were exceeding the posted limit. So if you're in a roadworks stretch which is limited to 50, and you're doing 60, you'll be summonsed for exceeding the limit by 10mph, even though you're travelling at less than the (normal) limit of 70. And your licence will show SP50, because that's the code for exceeding the posted limit on a motorway.

[Saltire]

Jonathan,
Can you confirm that you have the option not to disclose your income? Can they demand to see wage slips or is there an upper limit on what they consider the weekly income to be. Only asking as using £440 would be a lot better for some than their actual weekly income.
Andy

If you didn't disclose, you could be held in contempt of court, especially if we thought you were deliberately withholding to avoid a greater fine. When people arrive at court, the court usher asks them to fill in a 'means form', which sets out their employment, income and outgoings. And then they sign to say it's a true record.

As a personal comment: don't try it; there are too many things that can give you away, such as type of job, car you were driving, and your attire. In the worst case you could be accused of perjury - lying on oath - which carries a sentence of up to 7 years imprisonment

[simonbuk]

Ok, i think i see what you are saying. He got caught doing 86mph but that doesn't mean he was doing 16mph over the limit, as the speed limit could have been less at the time, making the driving offence worse ?

The code is just to note it happened on a motorway rather than another type of road ?

[Saltire]

Did you not just apply for a fixed penalty and £100 fine with 3 points? Or did you dispute it?

I got caught in April and took the fixed penalty option as I was guilty as charged (81mph in a 70mph on a motorway) and was unable to do a speed awareness course/workshop as I'd done one in the previous 3 years.

Can't see any mention of an SP code on the notice or on my licence.

Dave, Les may not have been given the option given the amount of the excess - you were 11mph over, while he was (we believe) 36mph over.

And if you were caught in April, the old rules probably applied, whereas Les has been convicted under the new rules

Finally, the old (Part 2) green paper licence is no longer in use. The SP code will be on your licence record at DVLA in Swansea.

Disclaimers still apply and, as always, opinions are my personal views only

[Saltire]

Ok, i think i see what you are saying. He got caught doing 86mph but that doesn't mean he was doing 16mph over the limit, as the speed limit could have been less at the time, making the driving offence worse ?

The code is just to note it happened on a motorway rather than another type of road ?

Exactly!

[Artaban]

Jonathan,
Thanks. Difficult to claim poverty when I sold the M100 and bought a Maserati Granturismo S4.7. Mind you if its income and expenditure the petrol costs are pretty close to my income anyway
Andy

[Rambo]

Lotusles - were you caught in one of those 50 mph average speed stretches on the motorway ? Or was it on one of the "smart" sections where the speed can suddenly be reduced depending on volume of traffic, flow, weather etc..

It's largely irrelevant anyway as you've been copped. But I am just interested to know a bit more about the circumstances ie did you get the option of a speed awareness course ?

[dapinky]

Agreeing with Jonathan, I have made the assumption (which is never really a good practice!) that it has been recorded in a 50 limit - hence asking for clarification from Les.

If it were "only" 16 above the limit, it seems harsh to me... ACPO guidelines (which no longer exist!!) when I was working stated that the tollerance is 10%+2 mph, so on a 70 limit, you wouldn't get prosecuted for anything below 80 (70 +7 +2 = 79).... as such, this level of sanction appears very harsh.....

.... however, once you exceeded the limit (wherever it was) by more than 30mph you were into the higher band, with court appearences and big fines - and discressionary disqualification.

We could only issue FPNs for offences within the appropriate band.

Although it was never published anywhere, many of my colleagues applied their own acceptable limits on a 70mph motorway... up to 80 - do nowt!, 81 - 89 stop the car and offer advice, 90 - 99 give a ticket, 100+ send to court. (Obviously, I complied with relevant guidelines and law at all times )

[Saltire]

Jonathan,
Thanks. Difficult to claim poverty when I sold the M100 and bought a Maserati Granturismo S4.7. Mind you if its income and expenditure the petrol costs are pretty close to my income anyway
Andy

If you came before me and said you'd sold your M100, I'd DEFINITELY treat that as an aggravating feature of the offence

[Dave Eds]

Pinky - mine was on the M4 in your old patch When you retired they replaced your discretion with a static camera ffs

Surely if our friend was doing 86 in a 50 (equivalent to 120 in a 70 in % terms) then there ain't much to complain about, as long as it was clearly marked as such?

[rip]

And if you were caught in April, the old rules probably applied, whereas Les has been convicted under the new rules

Les said he was caught in February but because the hearing was delayed, he was convicted under new rules.