Lack of servicing

[bchase]

Hi all,
I'm narrowing down my hunt for a first M100 and have found a car that looks to be in good condition but has not been serviced for 5 years (although minute mileages!). I'm guessing this is bad news but just wondering, short of an immediate oil and filter change if there's anything else I should bare in mind as I go and view it tomorrow?

[John_W]

Tyres,timing belt and tensioners, PAS belt, alternator belt, check alternator not siezed (nor the clutch), check fans not siezed, if SE check rear wishbones not badly rusted. Check brakes aren’t siezed and replace fluid.

If it’s been stored outside, check for damp, mould, rusty sills etc.

Worth a good look with general common sense.

John

[Rambo]

Some light night time reading....http://wikilec.com/view/Buyers_guide

[Artaban]

I don't want to put you off but there is so much to bear in mind I think you'll have to study the buying guide and take it with you and go through the car point by point. Its a credit to these cars that they can still look good when they may be absolute unloved dogs underneath. I'm not saying don't buy it but just be aware that the cheapest part of ownership could be what you pay for the car so with that possibility in mind make sure you negotiate hard on the price. In my experience a car left for a long period is usually because something went wrong with it and that took away the enjoyment of owning/driving the car and they've never got around to resolving the issue. A car running well is something that you love to get out and drive so I'd be on the lookout for a car owned by an enthusiast who has showered money on it in the last 5 years. It will cost you more to start with but will work out considerably cheaper in the long run and you'll enjoy it more.
Thats my opinion anyway. Good luck with the search and bear in mind mileage is fairly irrelevant; its the work done on it that counts.
Andy

[Rusty Wishbone]

I wouldn't be put off by a long period without a service in itself, particularly with light use. I would judge the car on its condition, and if it seems to be what you want, use the evidence of neglect as a bargaining chip to lower the price. After 5 years, it will need the major service with cambelt, so factor that into the price.

Good luck. I hope that we can all welcome you to the wonderful world of Elan ownership before too long.

[bchase]

Thanks. Below is the MOT history which perhaps might shed a little light. Love your analysis of it:


MOT History

Date tested
15 May 2017
PASS
Mileage
66,417 miles
Advisory notice item(s)
general condition of front and rear suspension / brake components (rusty) .
Nearside Front Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
Nearside Rear Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
Offside Front Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
Offside Rear Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
Offside Rear Shock absorber has a light misting of oil (2.7.3)
Nearside Rear Shock absorber has a light misting of oil (2.7.3)
Nearside Rear Shock absorber has slight corrosion to the casing (2.7.2a)
Offside Rear Shock absorber has slight corrosion to the casing (2.7.2a)
Nearside Rear Tyre worn close to the legal limit (4.1.E.1)
condition rear brake operation .

Date tested
6 June 2016
PASS
Mileage
66,184 miles
Advisory notice item(s)
general condition of front and rear suspension / brake components (rusty).
Offside Rear Shock absorber has a light misting of oil (2.7.3)
condition of rear brake operation .

Date tested
4 June 2015
PASS
Mileage
65,851 miles
MOT test number
9678 9585 5196
Expiry date
20 June 2016
Offside Rear Shock absorber has a light misting of oil (2.7.3)
Nearside Front Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
Nearside Rear Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
Offside Front Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
Offside Rear Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
Nearside Rear brake disc worn, pitted or scored, but not seriously weakened (3.5.1i)
Offside Rear brake disc worn, pitted or scored, but not seriously weakened (3.5.1i)
general condition of front and rear suspension / brake components (rusty) .
condition of front wiper blades .

Date tested
21 June 2014
PASS
Mileage
65,714 miles
Advisory notice item(s)
Nearside Front Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
Nearside Rear Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
Offside Front Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
Offside Rear Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
Offside Rear Shock absorber has a light misting of oil (2.7.3)
Nearside Rear brake disc worn, pitted or scored, but not seriously weakened (3.5.1i)
Offside Rear brake disc worn, pitted or scored, but not seriously weakened (3.5.1i)
general condition of front and rear suspension components (rusty) .

Date tested
30 May 2013
PASS
Mileage
65,609 miles
Advisory notice item(s)
Nearside Front Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
Offside Front Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
Nearside Rear Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
Offside Rear Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
general condition of front and rear suspension components (rusty).

Date tested
3 May 2012
PASS
Mileage
65,481 miles
Expiry date
2 May 2013
Advisory notice item(s)
general condition of front and rear suspension components (rusty).

Date tested
28 April 2011
PASS
Mileage
65,341 miles
Advisory notice item(s)
Nearside Front Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
Offside Front Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
Nearside Rear Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
Offside Rear Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules (3.6.B.4e)
general condition of suspension components (rusty).

Date tested
28 January 2010
PASS
Mileage
65,160 miles
Advisory notice item(s)
general condition of suspension components .
What are advisories?

Date tested
17 January 2009
PASS
Mileage
64,979 miles
MOT test number
4528 0741 9040
Test location
unavailable until further notice
Expiry date
16 January 2010
Date tested
3 January 2008
PASS
Mileage
64,872 miles
MOT test number
8506 1300 8081
Test location
unavailable until further notice
Expiry date
13 January 2009
Date tested
4 January 2007
PASS
Mileage
64,583 miles
MOT test number
1148 2420 7438
Test location
unavailable until further notice
Expiry date
13 January 2008
Date tested
10 January 2006
PASS
Mileage
64,211 miles
MOT test number
2729 8041 6001
Test location
unavailable until further notice
Expiry date
13 January 2007

[Rambo]

Possibly an unwanted and unloved car ?

After 5 or 6 years the same advisory notices crop up time and time again. They are fairly simple to resolve and a loving owner would have attended to these problems long ago

The cynic in me says, if the simple stuff hasn't been attended to then the major stuff ie cambelt and associated components, changing the hygroscopic brake fluid, changing the engine oil, anti freeze etc... will have been given a total bodyswerve.

Just my thoughts

PS looks like all 4 shockers need replacing and rear brakes/handbrake are seized or not operating efficiently. I suspect you'll also find the front brakes, if OEM, need attention too (as previously mentioned by JohnW)

[bchase]

After a long chat with the owner he says that he's garaged it and driven it very small distances hence he's not even bothered to service it. I'm concerned about the shocks, rust, brakes rear wishbones. Reading through other forum entries that looks like a good £1500 worth of attention plus a B+C service on top which means £700 ish. Does that sounds about right for starters?

[Rambo]

Well, if you need the rear wishbones replaced it will cost the best part of £1000 for starters. And these will undoubtedly be unbushed. Then there's fitting charges unless you are mechanically minded ??

And possibly 4 replacement shockers + fitting

A reconditioned rear caliper, should it be required, will, cost £150. per side. So that's possibly £300. Plus VAT, shipping, fitting. Because of these costs and ongoing maintenance problems, a lot now opt for the PNM rear brake upgrade using VW calipers and Hi Spec/PNM's on the front etc...

So you're maybe a bit light with your £1500 guesstimate ????

As Andy says....

I'd be on the lookout for a car owned by an enthusiast who has showered money on it in the last 5 years. It will cost you more to start with but will work out considerably cheaper in the long run and you'll enjoy it more.
Thats my opinion anyway. Good luck with the search and bear in mind mileage is fairly irrelevant; its the work done on it that counts

Ps by no way trying to put you off but making sure you go with both eyes open. Can you take a knowledgeable LEC'r with you ??

[bchase]

No that's really helpful thanks. I'm pretty certain I can pick it up cheaply but if it's going to be another 2k of work this won't end up being a bargain.

[Artaban]

Trust me it will be more than £2k especially if you don't do all the work yourself. My suspension rebuild alone cost £3,202. The only bit I didn't do myself was the rebushing and final geometry set up. I did however remove everything, blast and powder coat everything and put in new bushes and stainless bolts all round, also new spring and dampers, ball joints and wheel bearings. The rear wishbones I managed to get secondhand in stainless steel for £400. New wishbones, are as Rambo says, are about £1k and you'll be lucky if they are in good enough condition to not warrant replacing in the next 5 years.

When I bought my car I passed it to Steve at SJ Sportscars for him to look over it. He said it was obviously well looked after but the previous owner had let a few things go so it needed a B&C service and some other remedial work but nothing major at that point. It still cost me a further £2,932 in the first two months of ownership. Maybe I was unlucky but you'll find a good owner won't let something that needs attention go on for more than a few months (finances allowing). As I say you can negotiate very hard on price as he'll be looking for someone to buy with their heart not their head.
Good luck.
Andy

[Bern]

Already mentioned above, but check the dates that the tyres were made.

Mine was a little used car with excellent tyres, but on closer inspection they were 17 years old. That could be something else you need to budget for.

[Simon_P]

I'm concerned about the shocks,

I wouldn't be concerned about a light misting of oil on shocks thats part of how they work. MOT man doesn't understand - an oil leak on the other hand is a problem. Since we aligned with the EU shock absorber function isn't even part of the test.

Brake ferrules will be rusty - so what?

It is an old car sounds like the MOT man is only used to seeing new cars or was looking for some work.

Making a fuss about minor things in the MOT just shows that you haven't checked and/or you don't know what you are talking about...it was good enough to consistently pass.

Wishbone condition is the thing to look for and the only way of being satisfied is to check yourself.

Who cares about a worn tyre - cheap and easy to replace. Unlike an A pillar seal.

Get things in perspective most of these are just service items.

[JusNoGood]

Everyone here is far more experienced at M100 ownership than me.

Not sure what you are planning to use the car for but this is how I plan/budget for owning a classic car....hope this helps.

I have owned numerous classics (20-40 years old). I always buy with a reserve in the bank ready for unforeseen work (I actually do this for newer secondhand cars too!). I have a reserve regardless of the cost or the condition I think the vehicle is in. So I pick a car I can get a good condition one lower than my total budget.

If you're considering buying any 20+ year old car and using it as a daily driver to get to work then i'd strongly recommend a reserve and budgeting for and religiously sticking to the servicing frequency. Turbo is 6 months or 6000 miles whichever is the sooner - I think - and that wont be cheap. I've owned 5-6 classics between 20 and 40 years old that I have used to do 20-50 mile trips to work 5 days a week. I felt damn guilty doing the 50 mile trip in a 1959 and 1976 classic but I serviced it very regularly and it didn't let me down once in 3-4 years of doing that trip.

In my case I bought a great condition M100, very low mileage with very interesting history. No advisories but it had been stored for 10 years before it was brought back to life by the previous owner last year. I didnt buy it as a daily driver but I'm getting an a&c service, upgrading the brakes and getting any work done it needs. I dont want to own a car that breaks down and I sit at the side of the road waiting for the AA every weekend, so I'll do less than 6k a year but I will get it serviced every 6 months. I'm expecting and have planned for it to be a money pit but that works for me. I always plan and expect the worst and then hopefully I'll always pleasantly surprised Helps with the harmony of the house having a separate bank a/c from the Mrs

If you're buying it as a second car, bit of a hobby that can be off the road while you save up or whatever then thats cool too.

[Rambo]

..........religiously sticking to the servicing frequency. Turbo is 6 months or 6000 miles whichever is the sooner - I think

Sorry to correct you but that is completely wrong

As far as I am aware there is no particular service frequency for the turbo. It certainly isn't 6 months or 6000 miles whichever is the sooner

[Fredjohn]

..........religiously sticking to the servicing frequency. Turbo is 6 months or 6000 miles whichever is the sooner - I think

Sorry to correct you but that is completely wrong

As far as I am aware there is no particular service frequency for the turbo. It certainly isn't 6 months or 6000 miles whichever is the sooner

According to maintenance schedule in the Service Book, for both N/A and Turbo it's every 6,000 miles, starting with "A" and alternating with "B", with a "C" in addition every 30,000 miles. See Section OE Page 3. No mention of time frequency though UNLESS YOU LOOK AT SERVICE LOG: SEE NEXT POST!!!

EDITED after seeing next post. FJ

[JusNoGood]

..........religiously sticking to the servicing frequency. Turbo is 6 months or 6000 miles whichever is the sooner - I think

Sorry to correct you but that is completely wrong

As far as I am aware there is no particular service frequency for the turbo. It certainly isn't 6 months or 6000 miles whichever is the sooner

Thats what it says in my service book. Whats it say in yours then?

IMG_5320.jpg

[lotusflasherman]

From an independent viewpoint, I think you are at cross purposes over words ... did you mean service the turbo (turbocharger) or Turbo (SE Model)? ...
Both right:
Rambo is correct that there is no service interval for the turbocharger...
You are right that the SE service interval is 6 months or 6,000 miles.
(A lot of owners here use NA, SE & S2 to identify models)

[JusNoGood]

From an independent viewpoint, I think you are at cross purposes over words ... did you mean service the turbo (turbocharger) or Turbo (SE Model)? ...
Both right:
Rambo is correct that there is no service interval for the turbocharger...
You are right that the SE service interval is 6 months or 6,000 miles.
(A lot of owners here use NA, SE & S2 to identify models)

pmsl. no I wasn't picking a single part and giving the service interval for that. I was talking about service intervals. I've not looked up the n/a service intervals so if the car the op is looking at is n/a car I dont know that.

I assumed SE and S2 would be the same. I've owned a few other Turbo petrol cars and they have all been 6 months/ 6,000 mile oil changes.

I'll try and be more careful with my wording. I have IB10 which was built in 89, some parts upgraded to S2 and left Hethel and registered in 96. So I'm not really sure whether I'm looking at a S2 service book or a SE one

[Giniw]

I don't think there are much difference in the engine besides the exhaust where the S2 has a catalyst (and so a lambda sensor) and the SE mostly hasn't.