Lotus Elan S2 Total Loss Category N (SOLD)

[theelanman]

you'd probably get £12k for it without the cat 'd'.......
with cat 'd' (or I think its 'N' now) then Im afraid you're in the lap of the gods.........some people will discount it straight away.......
hence they're usually at least a couple of £k cheaper than a non cat registered car

as for the paint job........if the car was previously min then thats the standard you want........
if the car is a dogs dinner then the repair should be in keeping........
or do the whole car...........

your looked very good so the quality of finish would also need to be good.......

just take it to a proper paint shop and get them to do it properly first time

[Brit-Car-Nut]

As a former repair shop owner, my crew was always expected to return the car to "as new" mechanical and body panel status and the paint work was adjusted to try to match the current finish so the repair would be completely transparent.

I am sure there are "cheap" paint shops in the UK (like Maaco and Earl Scheib in the US) where you get enough to make the car the same color but no guarantee that the finish would be acceptable. We once had a customer that had us repair the physical body damage by installing the salvage parts he bought himself and then took his car to one of the above to "save money". When we next saw the car for other repairs, the paint shop had not even cleaned or prepped the front wing and painted over a splotch of bird crap. The owner was pleased he could drive the car again and it was all one color, but we were horrified with the results and were sorry that we ever touched the car.

From watching posts regarding M100s for sale in the UK, a very clean, well maintained S2 should sell (from a reputable company) for between 10K and 15K.

My guess is the repair should cost around 5K and that would not result in the CAT N status.

If you really like the car, I would suggest you verify that nothing is damaged except what is visible and take it to a few shops for estimates. You might be amazed. I think the adjuster / insurance company is cheating you if you didn't get a value more in line with what is available on the market today.

It is too bad that the insurance company forced it into the CAT N status. I would find a different insurance company to insure your next car.

Just my observation and opinion.

[clemo]

Clam £400 , bumper £200 , Intercooler £400 , intercooler housing , wheel arch liner £60 , wheel refurb £60 , paint £ 500 collection costs + £3000 + without any

other unforeseen's £1620 at my estimate , £2000 to be safe . + £3000 = £5000 If you fix it yourself .

Put in a garage then beyond economical repair

Pay out was £8200 as they deemed it not to be mint and you accepted it as . minus £2000 for cat register £1200 saved on a Medina ( least popular ) now cat N

If it was to be made mint then it would require more money spending on it so the equation would change but how would you add value . new Rubber seals would still equal out the cost to buy to the amount gained and would still always have the register tag hanging over it

I reckon could well be wrong of course . Im not trying to give you a kicking either i am very grateful that you have offered this to someone on here .

[theelanman]

It is too bad that the insurance company forced it into the CAT N status. I would find a different insurance company to insure your next car.

John
I think the letter that he has from the insurer mean its too late........
I do think that you can (as with other things where money greases wheels)....pay a fee and have it removed from the list once its been added.....
cat N doesn't attract any markers.....where as cat S gets a marker put on the V5 reg doc........
also while speculating about the structure of the car......cat N is 'non sturctural damge'....cat 'S' is structural damage......hope that means what I/we think it means
just an observation....
cheers
G

[dapinky]

Taco,

Thank you for answering my earlier questions - I can state that i am NOT looking to buy this project, but was asking purely to ensure that both seller and buyer know what they are entering into (from an ownership perspective).

I cannot say what the car would be worth once repaired, as it will depend entirely on the quality of the repair work, and if new or used parts were installed, or if the current items are mended.

Being Fibreglass (Composite?) construction, it is an easy material to work with for someone with the necessary skills (as any bodywork). The paintwork could be the major price as metallics are awkward to match/blend on a 25 year old car - so it may benefit from a full repaint.

New parts prices from Lotus would automatically make it a Cat N as they are silly (if availlable), but second hand bumpers, clamshells etc are often availlable if you know where to look, and have the time/inclination to get them to you. It is likely (as others have said) that if someone has the time to do the big work themselves, using second-hand panels, and then gets a professional to do the paintwork, then the cost will be somewhere between £2k and £5k - depending how easy the paint matches, or how fussy the owner is, or if they even change the colour completely!). A garage with the right contacts to get the parts and a paint facility could get it fixed for under a grand, but charge you far more due to the labour costs.

A member on here who can find the parts and can paint themselves, could possibly spend 6 months doing the job and spend about a grand. (but would probably spend far more as they would end up restoring lots of other things during the project!!!).

I admire your desire to sell to an owner who will restore it as it is a shame to break up salvageable cars just for profit - BUT - I can also accept that you want as much money as possible for the car, and if a speculator wants to pay more, then so be it. (I understand breaking cars with major/structural damage, but not a Cat N). Honestly, just because someone makes an offer and says that they will collect quickly and restore it, you can't always be sure that they will do that - but that is human nature.

I know of some members who will do everything possible to save a car, and others who would just see it as a pile of parts...... I hope it works out well for both of you.

[GeoffSmith]

Though i must say , fair play to Taco who could have just walked away from it . Giving an enthusiast a chance is a very decent thing to do .

[Rambo]

Taco - there are plenty of honourable and trustworthy LEC'rs with the requisite experience to keep your car on the road. Your car, your choice but please don't sell up to the greedy parts sharks who are only interested in 1 thing. ££££££

[Rusty Wishbone]

I have information that a specialist outside of London would probably do this repair for about GBP4k.

[apollo996]

[clemo]

Good luck to whoever bought this. I hope you enjoy the rebuild. Don't. Forget to pop a note in parts wanted. We all may be able to help save Taco's beautiful S2.

[lotusflasherman]

I think its absolute maximum value would be 8000 because of the accident marker. Probably less.

I've sold a few Elan's over the years and pay pretty close attention to the market. Just look at the purple S2 that sold recently on E-bay that came with the hardtop. Yes it had higher miles but no accident record and I think went for 7600. There is a big difference between what people are asking for these cars and what the real market value is.

I think cars at £10k+ are mostly dealer ones. They come with all the dealer extra's such as px, warranty/security (for what its worth) and finance. They will also most likely do you a much better deal on the forecourt price for straight cash.

The cars are definitely becoming more valuable, however, and are a good long term investment.

This particular car is worth buying if you have or can get the parts and can do the work yourself. Personally, the accident marker wouldn't bother me too much but it will other people who prefer a 'clean' record.

Finally, I could be wrong but I don't think you can get an insurance accident marker completely removed. You use to be able to get the record changed to 'inspected' but that was it. It would still be pretty obvious to anybody checking the car it had some sort of adverse history. If anyone could provide me evidence otherwise I would be interested.

Strange that you talk down the value of a 53k S2 but are advertising a 67k S2 for £5 short of £10k but say "cars at £10k+ are mostly dealer ones. They come with all the dealer extra's such as px, warranty/security (for what its worth) and finance."

You seem to blow hot or cold depending if you are selling or trying to buy...

I think we've all seen the photos of the damage to this one is not structural, it's just a shame he went to an inappropriate garage for a quote and is being shafted by his insurer who are under-valuing it. - Without the marker must be worth £8k plus so why not a £6k repair?

[apollo996]

I think its absolute maximum value would be 8000 because of the accident marker. Probably less.

I've sold a few Elan's over the years and pay pretty close attention to the market. Just look at the purple S2 that sold recently on E-bay that came with the hardtop. Yes it had higher miles but no accident record and I think went for 7600. There is a big difference between what people are asking for these cars and what the real market value is.

I think cars at £10k+ are mostly dealer ones. They come with all the dealer extra's such as px, warranty/security (for what its worth) and finance. They will also most likely do you a much better deal on the forecourt price for straight cash.

The cars are definitely becoming more valuable, however, and are a good long term investment.

This particular car is worth buying if you have or can get the parts and can do the work yourself. Personally, the accident marker wouldn't bother me too much but it will other people who prefer a 'clean' record.

Finally, I could be wrong but I don't think you can get an insurance accident marker completely removed. You use to be able to get the record changed to 'inspected' but that was it. It would still be pretty obvious to anybody checking the car it had some sort of adverse history. If anyone could provide me evidence otherwise I would be interested.

Strange that you talk down the value of a 53k S2 but are advertising a 67k S2 for £5 short of £10k but say "cars at £10k+ are mostly dealer ones. They come with all the dealer extra's such as px, warranty/security (for what its worth) and finance."

You seem to blow hot or cold depending if you are selling or trying to buy...

I think we've all seen the photos of the damage to this one is not structural, it's just a shame he went to an inappropriate garage for a quote and is being shafted by his insurer who are under-valuing it. - Without the marker must be worth £8k plus so why not a £6k repair?

I'm not blowing 'hot or cold' at all. You just don't understand or are ignoring the impact the fact its recorded as accident damaged will have on its value. My opinion is because it will be recorded as an accident damaged car its value will be around £8k once repaired. Its highly unlikely anybody will pay 'top' Elan money in the future despite the fact I agree the damage isn't too bad. I also agree the quote to repair was too high. Last time I looked into it a car recorded as accident damaged was worth around 25% less. On that basis, it would of had a higher sale price then my car pre-accident so how exactly am I talking down this car???

'Without the marker must be worth £8k plus so why not a £6k repair?' - I don't really understand this point at all. It has a marker. Its recorded as 'written off as uneconomical to repair'. This will always be a fact and will affect its overall value once repaired. You can't just say well if it wasn't recorded it would be worth ££££.

Just look at the higher priced Elan's for sale. They are almost all for sale by dealers. That's a fact. Personally, I think my car for sale would be £12k at a dealer but I know I won't achieve that sort of figure.

Finally, I understand this car is sold now. Well done to the buyer. It will make a lovely car I reckon and definitely one to hang onto.

[lotusflasherman]

'Without the marker must be worth £8k plus so why not a £6k repair?' - I don't really understand this point at all. It has a marker. Its recorded as 'written off as uneconomical to repair'. This will always be a fact and will affect its overall value once repaired. You can't just say well if it wasn't recorded it would be worth ££££.

Was just a comment about how eager Insurance Companies are to write off a car and make derisory payments, well below what it would cost to buy an equivalent condition car ...

[dapinky]

With my Moderator hat on.......

LEC has long had a policy of NOT openly discussing 'value' of particular cars - and I have allowed this to run for a while as the seller has been transparent with his ideas for valueing the sale, and had asked for an idea of value once repaired.

However, as the thread has turned somewhat unsavory I would like to draw a line under the discussions at this point.

I do not wish to prevent further additions to the thread in case the new owner wishes to add anything of value (see what I did there?). However, should that not be the case, I'm sure that this will become simply another 'archive' thread which may be of value to any future purchaser if they do their research.

[lotusles]

Under insurance principles your insure must repair a vehicle up to the market value if thats what you want.
Also the new cat N is not a replacement for the old cat D.
Cat D was a constructive total loss where repair costs were less than the PAV, cat N is a Non Structurally damaged vehicle that can be repaired regardless of repair costs.

[alan e]

Who got the car in the end ?.

[GeoffSmith]

So it wasn't you?

[alan e]

So it wasn't you?

No i had a email from John Ison he said that he had most of the parts to fix it and asked if i was going to bid for it i said that if he's got the parts i won't bid on it, he then sent me a text and said that he's put a bid in for just over £3000.

[LRS7]

I put a bid in for £3k and was told it went to a higher bidder

[tb10]

I didn’t get it either

Regards

John