Will it run on E10 unleaded

[Roger D]

I see that the Government will be withdrawing E5 unleaded (5% Ethanol added) with E10 unleaded (10% Ethanol added) this summer and some older engines may experience issues with the E10 fuel.

Does anyone know if this will cause our engines any problems?

Apparently Super unleaded (with 5% Ethanol addd) will be still be available and could be used as an alternative.

[Saltire]

I have read on this and other forums that E10 is not suitable for the Elan, although personally I always use either Shell V-Power or Tesco Momentum in all my cars.

[Rambo]

Me too. And there us also a premium, high RON petrol available on BP forecourts

[MPx]

The problem isn't the "engine", its all the things made of rubber/plastic/seals etc. Ethanol is an extremely corrosive substance and requires special materials to be used to avoid issues - most old vehicles with carbs (floats), rubber fuel lines, o-rings of the wrong type etc etc will be got at if they use fuels with a high ethanol content over a period of time. There's unlikely to be any issue getting home from the petrol station with the first fill up of E10.

I nicked this from the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs
Ethanol
The Federation has identified three operational aspects relating to the addition of ethanol to petrol:

Compatibility: some elastomers, plastics and composite materials are not compatible with petrol containing ethanol. Where problems are experienced, incompatible materials in the fuel system should be replaced with compatible alternatives.

Corrosion: long-term storage of petrol-ethanol mixtures ( eg over a winter period) can lead to corrosion in historic vehicle fuel systems.

[GeoffSmith]

In answer to your question, yes, it will run on E10! Three facts to consider however:

I will continue to use premium which is going to remain solely E5 in the UK for now, but there will be consultation after about 5 years.

Lotus have said that E10 is not compatible.

Californians have been pretty much forced to use E10 since the 1970s but no M100 problems have been reported as far as I am aware.

[Denny]

It seems the risk is very low but are there any additives available that could reduce the risk of degradation to some engine elastomers, plastics and composite materials?

[MPx]

Maybe worth reading this page. The Ethanol section is some way down.

[Scott J]

Lotus say not compatable as they have no proof it is. Same for Rover K engined Elise’s as Rover long gone, though MG F forums say it’s safe so who knows what’s what. Super is the safe bet.

[dougieson]

These engines have been running for some time now on E5 with no adverse effects.
So is the problem due to larger concentration of Ethanol, or the lower quality of the E10 fuel?
As for the lower quality this could cause these engines to knock (pinking), so retarding the ignition timing a couple of degrees will cure this problem.

[Jacko]

For various reasons (some stated above) the use of gasoline containing ethanol is prohibited in most piston engined aeroplanes. The most common aviation gasoline is 100LL Avgas (100 MON), which contains some tetraethyl lead. However, lead is best avoided if possible as it fouls spark plugs and cylinder heads, and is not compatible with modern synthetic oils and long oil change intervals.

Most piston engined aeroplanes can use UL91 or 91/96UL Avgas (91 MON, 96 RON), which contains no lead or ethanol, is made to much tighter specifications than forecourt gasoline (aka “Mogas”) and has a lower vapour pressure and is more stable (keeps for longer). This fuel is readily available in bulk and the last delivery we had from CYMA (for our Lycoming engines) was slightly cheaper than forecourt super unleaded - although for the quantity my Elan uses, price is irrelevant.

Many private pilots have a serious car/motorcycle habit, so your local light aircraft or gliding airfield might be a convenient source of small quantities for interesting sports cars. Otherwise, one needs a suitable bulk storage bowser, which may be subject to all sorts of regulation...

[GeoffSmith]

Someone asked about additives for E10 and I half-jokingly suggested adding ethanol free petrol. Apparently Esso Synergy Supreme+ 99 is ethanol free (except, due to technical supply reasons, in Devon, Cornwall, North Wales, North England and Scotland) so a 50:50 mix with E10 regular would result in E5.

https://www.esso.co.uk/en-gb/fuels/petrol

[lotusflasherman]

Someone asked about additives for E10 and I half-jokingly suggested adding ethanol free petrol. Apparently Esso Synergy Supreme+ 99 is ethanol free (except, due to technical supply reasons, in Devon, Cornwall, North Wales, North England and Scotland) so a 50:50 mix with E10 regular would result in E5.

https://www.esso.co.uk/en-gb/fuels/petrol

100% ethanol fuel requires 1.5 times the volume of petrol to provide the same energy so even E5 is giving less 'bang per cc' and E10 will be twice as bad.
A few years ago I did see a survey of fall in mpg across various cars caused by use of E10. Was quite significant for some so if I found ethanol free petrol I'd fill the tank!

Would be a good idea to fill with ethanol free if car is going onto SORN so there's no ethanol to degrade any plastic components (like the fuel tank) over that period.

[chris.t]

Is it practical to convert the components that would be seriously affected by E10. If so what would the cost be approximately?

[Simon_P]

So far I've only seen the extensive debate about what the ethanol will rot, it's lower energy density, and improved Octane rating. So lower MPG, lower HP and they get to blend lesser fuel stock and still maintain the same Octane rating... All for the same or higher price. It doesn't even make Greta less unhappy

Thinking about the change in fuel composition it got me wondering about mixture ratios. What is the stoichiometric ratio for E10? What does that mean in terms of our fuel map? And what will it mean in terms of emissions? Valves? Pistons? Plugs? Running temperature?
The O2 sensor in a closed loop car may compensate, but what about open loop which just assumes 14.7:1.

[Simon_P]

Just looked it up.
Petrol 14.7:1
E10 14.08:1
So E10 requires 4.5% more fuel to burn completely.
That equates to our open loop mode being lean.

[GeoffSmith]

Some (dated) info about how and when they add ethanol.

http://www.bexhill100mc.co.uk/ethanol-i ... 4572814542

[Simon_P]

I was asked about E10 by a neighbour. I looked up Jaguar on the .GOV site and it says that all Jaguars from 1992 onwards are able to use E10. CATs became compulsory in 1993 and for that you need an O2 sensor to adjust the fuel

[Stef]

With the nasty, corrosive Ethanol polluting our petrol now, does anyone on here have any knowledge on the rubbers, metals and solders in our cars that it may be dangerous to?

It shall be interesting to see how wintering our cars shall be affected by evaporation too.

Advice from those who know car components better shall be useful for us all.

Thanks

[Blaster]

I am only using Esso fuel as there supreme stuff is actually E0 in most parts of the UK
From the ESSO web site.

Our Synergy Supreme+ 99 petrol has more cleaning power than our regular petrol – and includes molecules whose job it is to reduce the friction in your engine helping the moving parts work more efficiently.*

Although our pumps have E5 labels on them, our Synergy Supreme+ 99 is actually ethanol free (except, due to technical supply reasons, in Devon, Cornwall, North Wales, North England and Scotland). Legislation requires us to place these E5 labels on pumps that dispense unleaded petrol with ‘up to 5% ethanol’, including those that contain no ethanol, which is why we display them on our Synergy Supreme+ 99 pumps.

There’s currently no requirement for renewable fuel, like ethanol, to be present in super unleaded petrol although this could change in the future, in which case we would comply with any new legislation.

[Denny]

I am only using Esso fuel as there supreme stuff is actually E0 in most parts of the UK
From the ESSO web site.

Our Synergy Supreme+ 99 petrol has more cleaning power than our regular petrol – and includes molecules whose job it is to reduce the friction in your engine helping the moving parts work more efficiently.*

Although our pumps have E5 labels on them, our Synergy Supreme+ 99 is actually ethanol free (except, due to technical supply reasons, in Devon, Cornwall, North Wales, North England and Scotland). Legislation requires us to place these E5 labels on pumps that dispense unleaded petrol with ‘up to 5% ethanol’, including those that contain no ethanol, which is why we display them on our Synergy Supreme+ 99 pumps.

There’s currently no requirement for renewable fuel, like ethanol, to be present in super unleaded petrol although this could change in the future, in which case we would comply with any new legislation.

There are also other brands of super unleaded such as Tesco Momentum & Shell V-power