Brisbane Elan - recommission or rebuild, you be the judge!

[Owen L]

Hey everyone. I'm going to keep a diary here of my attempt to recommission a 1995 S2 in BRG

9/4/21
Former best friend sends me advert for car. Text enquiry leads to inspection organised for next morning. Car is a 35 min trip away.

10/4/21
10am view car, looks a bit sad. Been stored for 5 years. Chap tells convincing story of his 85 year old father buying the car at 79, driving it for a year, losing his licence due to health and the car being parked up for last five years.
Why sell it now? He wants it gone and he's moving - OK. And it ran well before it was parked up? Oh yes, i drove it myself the week before, goes well.
So what's wrong with it now do you think? Oh probably plugs and fuel.
Drove it up and down the road, ran like a dog. I shrugged, chatted to the guy some more and walked away thinking, that's a cute car but i don't need the hassle.

Later that same day
Man Maths running wildly through my mind, I pitched it to my wife. I'd already decided not to worry about the car but was interested in her view. I constructed an excellent logic trap. She smiled and suggested it was a great idea if it was reliable and i sold some of my motorbikes. Blinded by the green light, i agreed as the phone pinged and the seller reduced the price by 20% (Note I had not offered to buy the car at this point) This combined with his address being 14 (my lucky number), i sensed Lotus ownership approaching.
Completely blind now, i agreed to the price, ignoring the reality that it hadn't run for 5 years, didn't run right and was a Lotus far far away from all the other cars and experts.

12/4/21 Garage actually cleaned out ready to receive my perfect car. The boss is impressed. No mention of which bikes i was planning to sell.


13/4/21
Car arrives on back of truck. I start it and even manage to get it up my insanely steep driveway. Runs like a dog. I have a new battery, plugs and some injector cleaner ready.
Twenty minutes to understand how the hood works, I have the new battery in. Start car, no change, no surprise. Pull plugs, all very black except the far right one. Put new plugs in, no change.
Go through dance of pulling all plugs in turn. Seems to make little difference except 3rd from left kills it. Do lots of reading on forum. Could be a coil pack - but why would that pack up from just sitting? anything is possible will be my mantra!
Add 20L of high octane fuel and an injector cleaner. Leave it for night. Have cleaned one part of a panel, comes up well. Retire to bingeing YT videos on car. Discover 3 that are great. Leave a couple of comments. Videos seem to be a couple of years old.

14/4/21
Have had some responses from YT authors, feeling star struck. what nice chaps i think. Another mate coming over to help me determine more logically which leads are not firing.
Confusion reigns. All four leads generate a spark when the lead is detached. Adding a plug into lead end also generates spark. Pulling 4 off makes no difference still. Car does seem to run a bit better, maybe its running on 3 not 1 or 2 we muse.
Watch more YT. Get out screwdriver and listen to injectors. All seem to be working. Take car for a run up local private road to see if we can get it to clear its throat.
Get back to garage, car drops its coolant in a slow dribble but steady. doesn't stop until header tank is empty. I'm not too worried about the leak, but the fluid looks awfully like rusty water

Several hours later
Injectors are out. Logic was as follows. If all 4 are getting sparks. It has to be fuel. Mate makes first mention of a compression test - he knows something, i sense. Lets do that Friday. Shall i pull injectors in meantime? sure why not, what will you clean them with? More YT. Wow there are some bad videos out there. But hey, they are having a go, good on ya fellas. I feel ready to pull injectors. Takes 3 hours and a lot of reading. Some highlights: No clips holding plugs onto injectors - someone has been in here then.... Clips holding injector to fuel rail are hard to remove. So little access. Pause for lunch and to re-read Wiki. Pick up on a missed detail about clips. Push front, then back. This was before the rail is removed. Too late but i use this approach and they come free. Very aware there are holes now opening into the engine. But that's ok I think, clips are retained onto rail. Still, I'm very wary as you'd never find anything if it dropped down and if it goes into engine - farrrrk. Two of 4 clips come loose but I'm ready and capture them. This is like surgery, watch every second. Tired from all this, i decide to have them cleaned by a chap. He agrees to arrive in morning.

Boss gets home
So how did you get on? wait is that water on the garage floor? I provided an edited highlight, placing it all in a positive light. I remove undertray after she agrees to pour water down the expansion pipe. I've removed the header tank, it says GM on it. Good I think. Water drips from the lower mounting point where the undertray attaches. radiator is in there somewhere but tracing the pipe seems to lead off to the other side of the engine bay. Ok, so cooling system is a complicated beast. Give up for evening and retire to watch YT some more, focus on cooling systems.

15/4/21
Start by watching more of the restoration series. must learn that guys name. He hasn't ever responded to any questions in the comments, so how do i find him i ponder. He fixes his headlight adjustment. I'm chasing the wheel liner removal but its in the repair video not the adjustment one. I watch that, he has made up some parts, wow, will follow up this when i get to the point of worrying about lights and pods. cool though. did I finish that video? still don't know how to remove liner. Injector chaps arrives. Takes injectors, tests them, they are fine. Damn that's upsetting. Heart starts to sink as the words "compression test" leak into my worry box. He leaves with a lot of my money. oh well. I call my former best mate to break the news he found me a pup. He is crestfallen and we banter for a while. I claim not to be too worried. Text other mate (Trev) he suggest to put them back in and we can do the compression test. Ok. But i dont jump into that. Go for supplies to clear my head a touch. People, uggh. Back at the house, i text another mate (Ben) who's a bit of a guru too. Been meaning to catch up for ages. We talk at length. He isn't convinced by anything yet. Could still be plugs. Get a timing light on it to make sure its really firing inside the cylinder. Ok i say. We move onto how hard it is to change the head and timing belt. He suggest removing the rocker cover and checking the valves aren't stuck shut. Small probability but given it has hydraulic lifters, worth looking at. He explains how a valve gets burnt out. I understand and feel lower to the ground suddenly. He also mentions collapsed lifters due to shitty oil blocking the passages. My heart beats a little harder. I try to decide what to do. Wife (Ness) has asked me to sort all my tools out properly as i wont be on holiday for much longer. Yep, good point lovely. I return to my diary on LEC to log everything so i can read it back later and laugh at my naivety.

So this afternoon...
install injectors (2 hours)
jack up car and remove liner (1 hour)
look at radiator if possible from underneath, no head under car whilst on jacks Owen!
penetrating oil into bumper mounting screws if possible - realise i need other liner off as well - oh well.

Diary progress - maybe tonight, maybe tomorrow.

Thanks for reading if you did, more tomorrow, comments very welcome.

[Rambo]

I very much suspect that the car was leaking badly but still used by the former owner in that condition a) because he was old, b) because he didn't notice and c) because he couldn't be arsed! The engine overheated a few times due to no coolant and he ended up with HGF. Get a compression test done asap. A sniffer test could also be beneficial

The poor car sat parked up for 5 years and then you came along. The car will definitely need a new cambelt, water pump, tensioner, idlers etc.. plus associated belts, based on time alone and also peace of mind

Brakes will undoubtedly be seized and there will be much, much more

Hope your wife hasn't frozen your bank accounts and filed for divorce ?

PS you might want to kick your best friend into touch

[Owen L]

Rambo. Yeah, lets hope not but i hear you. Definitely getting everything replaced that needs it. RHS wheel liner just came out. Nothing seized and only one missing - miracles do happen! onto LHS and Bumper tomorrow to hunt for that leak! Compression test in morning will tell us a lot. Does run a lot better with clean injectors. but only for a few seconds of course.

[Owen L]

15/4/21 - Part Two!

Injectors - The mobile cleaner chap kindly greased the new O rings. So i gently seated each one into the head and pushed down. Anxiously trying to avoid pressure on the electrical connector part. Then i lined up the fuel rail. I double checked i would be able to get the C clips back on. I made one mistake which was not putting the far right one onto the rail and checking it was not going to fall off. The danger is it could slide off as you place the rail into the injectors. So its not on for now as I couldn't get in there afterwards. You need to adjust each injector to get them all lined up with the rail, but its more a question of patience than anything else. The tabs on the rail provide a natural slide down the securing bolt holes on the head. Gentle pressure on the lip of the rail against the giant plenum chamber (that's what it is right?) and you can stop once the holes line up. It goes in with a slightly sudden downwards movement of a mm or two. some final pulls on the lever and the holes line up. Being super careful not to drop the bolts, they go in easily and that's it. Well not quite. The c clips need sliding in. Again a gentle lever from the screwdriver does the trick. Ideally put a hint of grease onto the groove if you can. My grooves were too low initially for the clip and i had to urge the injector up slightly. So don't stress about the injectors seating too far into the head. I got 3/4 (clips) in and left the fourth for now. regulator back on and it's the securing bolt with a 26 Torx head that gave me pause. I put several squares of kitchen roll under the end to catch this thing if it fell - and it did. Tricky bugger. Patience once more here. Or a drop of blu-tac if you have it on the Torx. I'd undone the cable tidy but not convinced this was required. Plugs back on and they are good to go. I don't have the metal clips for the electrical connector, so they are on the list if anyone knows how to source them. I put the fuel pump fuse (A3 - 7.5 A) in and reconnected the battery. Oh and the pipes on the regulator. So good to take loads of photos of everything as you go on the phone. you just don't remember everything. It ran much much better but i can only run it for 20 sec or so until i fix the leak. I pulled 3 and 4 plug to inspect and feel temp. They seemed similar and it revved more evenly than ever before. But i still don't think #4 is firing.

Wheel Liners - I watched the video again. Looked at all the screws and thought i'll just see how crusty they are. But everything was easy to undo and i had the liner in my hand in about 2-3 minutes - result! Did the same on the other side. Decided enough stuff was starting to come off to need bags for bolts. so did that and felt happy and sad that was happening.

Front Bumper - undid the two bolts right underneath at the edges, very easy to undo. This car has not been through a British winter or even an Aussie one it seems. There is a little bump on the passenger side and the fitting has no nuts on it, so some work there i suspect.

Tools - didn't organise my tools - oops, tomorrow then.

Ignition - Sometimes you turn the key and the lights are just on really faintly and it wont start. Cycling the ignition slowly brings it to life properly - hmmm.

Tomorrow - Compression test to put valve issue in a clearer light - never done this, so will be good to learn.. Remove Bonnet to improve working on Header tank area. Timing light on leads to confirm spark? hazy on this, so a learning day from Trev on that. Remove Bumper while Trev is here to hold other end. Do i need the head-lights out - will watch video again. Push on looking for leak. Sort tools, buy dollys to move car around in garage. Investigate coolant and pipes assuming i find leak. Big day ahead and last one of holiday, so happy and sad.

[Simon_P]

Great post... You give dapinky a run for his money.

I'm not sure why you are removing the arch liners and the bumper, it doesn't appear to be related to any of your issues. The radiator comes out vertically downwards.

So it sat for 5 years, then you came along and expect it to work? And pass a compression test? Give it a chance! rings will be stuck, tappets empty of oil, fuel filter rusty inside etc etc. Now you can look at it and diagnose it like a car that has been running fine in which case everything will fail, or you can awaken it from its slumber gently, in which case most things will recover.

Change all of the fluids and filters and let it run. Let it run while you tidy your tools, let it run and drink beer with your mates, let it run while you watch YouTube videos and let it run while you do something for the boss... Stop taking it apart and let it run!

If it dies when you remove a lead and you suspect coil packs, swap them around and the fault should move to the other pair.

These engines don't suffer from burnt valves, the S2 (closed loop) keeps it's valves very clean.

have fun and did I say... let it run!

[Simon_P]

Just read the title - I'm definitely in the recommission camp having done both several times.

Have you discovered rockauto.com? There is usually a 5% discount code if you ask around. You need to know what you are buying so ask here first.
Also dapinky's shiny new manuals section

Possible radiator/hose leaks N/S from the top:
Auxiliary coolant pump
Radiator bleed screw - Under headlamp pod (raise headlamp)
Top hose - actually about 1/3 of the way down hose
Radiator drain screw - bugger to get to
If neglected the end cap often comes uncrimped - New radiator see Coolex or get yours rebuilt

[Rambo]

HGF was my initial gut feel. I am usually wrong - well, not quite right but usually in the right ball park.

There are far more experienced people than me - you have already had valuable info. from Simon. No doubt the aforementioned Dapinky will be along in a minute. Together with Geof (there's only 1 effin') Smith, Saltire, LotusmanPhil, João, TorqueHorse...... to name only a few...

Edited.... just noticed Saltire (Jonathan) has already been on with some useful advice re low compression (see your introduction thread)

[Simon_P]

He isn't convinced by anything yet.

(Ben) he's the sensible one then!

Get a timing light on it to make sure its really firing inside the cylinder. Ok i say.

I'ts wasted spark so you may find that the timing light just confuses things the definitive test is by removing leads - they work in pairs - see earlier comment about swapping coils around.

I don't have the metal clips for the electrical connector, so they are on the list if anyone knows how to source them.

The plastic on the plug breaks so it doesn't hold the metal clip. It is a common problem - I have identified the plug and have a bag of them here for investigation for a group buy (one day)

HGF was my initial gut feel.

A strong possibility due to dissimilar metals and expire inhibitor, but rule everything else out first, then when everything is running smoothly it can be done with the required cambelt change which makes it only half a job.

[dapinky]

Just so Simon and Mark don't feel that I've let them down with failure to respond.... I have commented on your other post with my thoughts!

.... however, I forgot one thing......

... do you have a boroscope? - I have one that has a USB into a laptop, but you can get either self-contained units with a screen built in, or one which works with your mobile phone.

If you poke it down the sparkplug holes you should be able to see that the valve stems are not stuck (or are stuck!) and that the valves are closing as they should.

Also, it is possible to remove and clean/refill the valve tappets without removing the head.

I would go with Simon, but do a bit first (before running it too much!)

(1) flush the coolant system for a while with a running hose pipe to clear as much crap as possible
(2) fill with simple water for now - why waste coolant mix, it costs money and is bad for the environment.... it will be chucked away soon anyway (waterpump needs replacing!)
(3) Observe to see if valves are stuck - you may well see that they move a bit, but not fully, which will suggest dodgy lifters!
(4) compression test
(5) consider removal of cams and do up the lifters.....

THEN run it lots (with new (cheap!) oil).... it should gradually come back to life...... or tell you it wants something else doing.

[sideways]

So when is the (former) best friend's funeral? Ideally well before that of his aged parent...

Recommission or rebuild?

First get it running on all 4, not leaking, then take a step back to think it through. Then ignore those thoughts and do whatever you want.

Took mine out of the garage yesterday, washed it - first time since late last year - then dried it off completely by going for a drive at highly illegal speeds; these things get up to 100mph+ very quickly (purely theoretical officer...) and it feels more like the original Elan at those speeds, everything light without being oversensitive. Still didn't come anywhere near the car's capabilities though, my capabilities are far behind those of the car.

Anyway, sun is shining, car is clean so time to repeat until caught.

PS, good luck with the car...

[alan e]

You will find that Lotus Elan Central is your new best friend now.

[Owen L]

16/4/21

A big thank you to those who have taken the time to respond to my ramblings. I have more to think about now for sure.

A couple of clarifications that may not have come across due to my lack of coherence.

I don't have any preset expectations of what the car needs. it will get everything that I (and you) identify as needing done before it goes very far. All the fluids and the timing belt are essential of course.

Once i have it running smoothly without any water leaks, I will start to change out all the fluids. Once!

Today we will do a compression test, which may give some clarity around far right cylinders reluctance to join the party. I'm encouraged to hear they don't do valves.

I have the header tank out, so a swap of the coils is an easy check as well as the timing light approach.

I took the wheel liners out as I'm going to be doing the timing belt - i was under the impression this was going to make life easier to do that.

I also want to take the bumper off. Partly to make access easier to the radiator - is that not going to help? And partly to investigate the small bump it has had to see what might need doing.

Toby from the resto series makes it look straightforward, especially with his angle grinder. All my bolts have just undone really easily - a gentle climate here.

I'm going to also remove the pods. The brackets have some corrosion on, which i will get plated or powedercoated. They also need a little adjustment. They are also noisy, so that may need more work as well to discover if that's normal or signs of further issues.

I am contemplating putting the car up on axle stands to improve access underneath. However reading seems to suggest the S2 doesn't have any jacking points at the rear. More reading seems to suggest the outer ones are useable. I'm unsure how you are able to jack the car up and then put the stands underneath if you cant use the inner jack points of the earlier cars. More reading needed.

Trev is here from 11, so we can make some progress on the engine and maybe get the bonnet and lights and bumper off. Not too worried that the car is coming apart. It needs lots of cleaning anyway, so that will help with that.

[Owen L]

16/04/21

Part II

So, Trev turned up promptly, armed with jacks and axle stands and many other cool things. I fired the car up and he smiled. That's running on all 4 for SURE! I felt a wave of relief but still cautious, i suggested we do the compression test anyway. Oh yeah, for sure. I removed the plugs and we tested each cylinder.

Of course we worked from left to right to build the tension. 170, 170, 170 and.......... 170

so yay, yay and yay again.

Looking at the fourth plug he pointed out the markings showing it was working. so no burnt valves and lets move forward to the water leak.

We spent a long time getting the car gently up onto the jack. We used a socket as directed to spread the load and I watched the area closely to ensure it wasn't giving way.

Once we were happy we could jack the car up safely we inspected the radiator to try to locate the source of the leak. after much staring using the phone light ( i need a decent floor lighting system) it seemed like it was actually leaking from the radiator itself, not the hoses. blimey

So after much pondering, we elected to remove the radiator. We started with the light pods, moved onto the bumper and finally the radiator. Took us 4 hours start to finish with lots of stops and laughter. And of course YT Toby explained how to do each step several times. I continued to bag the bolts carefully and Trev was happy to pass me tools whilst i was deep under the car.

Once it was out, we back flushed it with water and it is definitely seeping from where the metal joins the plastic. Maybe from some fins as well. an expert will tell me i'm sure.

So now to do some research on new pipes and getting this rad repaired or maybe a new one. Will take the weekend to ponder and order Monday as appropriate. I'm starting to hear of a Samco pipe kit, so that might be in order. Please do share any details of this that you might have.

Car needs a lot of deep cleaning, many bolts to be replaced and some powdercoating to be done, especially that rad mounting frame. Depending on how long the parts take to arrive, more cleaning inside the engine bay might be in order.

Overall very happy with the underneath of the car. no major scrape damage and every bolt just undid. Its a good little car that needs some love. Very happy indeed today but back to real life tomorrow after 4 uninterrupted days of spanners - ready to face the students again i guess on Monday!

Thanks for reading if you did and please let me know if there are things i need to know or do.

[dapinky]

Well, it certainly sounds like you're initial problem(s) were down to sticky valve lifters.... which have filled/cleared with use (and standing in between) ..... and/or possibly sticky valve(s) not fully closing, and not getting enough 'ooomph' from the lifters to put enough strain on the spring to overcome the extra friction...... again after use, oil will be floating around and helping all these issues.

Either way, running on all 4, and with even compressions, HAS to be good news.

If you are taking the bumper, light pods and stuff off to get to the radiator(which drops out without doing those bits!!!!) - it may now be worth thinking about taking the clamshell off - it will make it an awful lot easier to get to the timing belt (but, again, not actually necessary).

[Saltire]

Several things to comment on here: first off, I removed the wheel arch liners, light pods and bumper, but not the clamshell, when I replaced the radiator last year. As others have said, it’s not strictly necessary, but it a) gives you better access, and b) gives an opportunity for some preventive maintenance on things like the headlamp motors, mounts and linkage, the radiator mounting bracket, and the pipe work to the vacuum reservoir. (Mind you, I also took the engine out, but that was for another reason and is another story).

With regard to jacking up, I also have an S2, and I’ve never really used the jacking points. I’m fortunate in that I have access to a two post ramp (owned by a friend), and I put the car on that with the loading pads under the four “SE jacking points” and with a stout piece of timber front to rear either side to spread the load. The car was up on the ramp for six or seven weeks during last summer’s work, and there’s no sign of any damage as a result.

Assuming you don’t have that luxury - and yes, I fully realise how fortunate I am - axle stands are good - although it’s difficult to work on the suspension that way - or, depending on budget, you could consider something like this or this.

I did a group buy for Samco hoses two years ago and can recommend them. Not cheap, but fit and forget. Ours came from Merlin Motorsport, but Amber Performance also sell them and you may have a local stockist. My replacement radiator came from Coolex and has been great.

Good luck, and keep asking those questions!

[378S2]

G’day from Perth’s sunny shores! Best car for Aussie living, you won’t be disappointed.

I’ve changed the radiator on mine, it was leaking exactly as you describe. I’ve also rebuilt the brakes and had a lot of fun with the kids. I’ve got a set of Samco hoses in the garage waiting for a rainy day to go in. If your car is anything like mine then it’ll be nearly rust free, so we win there - but postage from SJ gets a wee bit pricey.

[Simon_P]

Great that it now runs smoothly - Get some heat cycles into it. - have you forgiven your mate yet?

We used a socket as directed to spread the load

That doesn't sound like a great idea as the angles change something will slip. I'm sure some people will say it's fine, but I'll guess they haven't had a car fall off it's jack. A better place for axle stands / trolley jacks are the mounting bolts at the back of the prongeron (stingray/underframe) I think that they are shown in one of the handbooks don't jack on the frame.

Written years ago the article for a cambelt change is here
http://www.rupertbear.f2s.com/LOTUS_ELA ... change.htm
Follow the manual - the 60 degrees is important so that you aren't fighting the valve springs. Note that the bearings and water pump are not service items so check on condition - A lot of the new ones are made in China - new isn't always better.

I can't see that removing bodywork is any advantage in removing the radiator there isn't any better access - each to their own! I find it easiest to change the cambelt with the suspension removed... but it isn't strictly necessary

[Rambo]

I agree about the socket Simon. One slip and you'll bugger the fibreglass. I have heard that an ice hockey puck with a suitable indentation is a better idea as it spreads the load between the trolley jack and the jacking point/pin.

[Owen L]

17/04/21

Much reading about Coolex radiator dramas in USA last night. Equally it seems the Coolex one does fit, so I'm leaning to that as a solution over getting this one repaired. Samco pipes take six weeks to be manufactured, so that's a bit disheartening. Will see if anyone has a set they haven't fitted sitting around I can purchase for the current cost and they could then re-order? Its a thought.

Jack up the car - now reading the socket ISNT the way to go in case it slips, could be an issue if jacking up too high i sense. Just getting the car up doesn't alter the angle that much. Its also hard to determine the exact location of the inner front jacking points. lots of searching hasn't yet revealed a clear image of where an axle stand sits on the inner front jacking points. Some reading on the rear jacking points seem to suggest you must never put the jack under these on an S2. I mean the outer ones. So there is that to ponder as well. The front jacking point does lift the back wheel, so changing tyres is doable at least. I saw a hack on normal ramps with some sturdy wood that might give me security for the car when refitting everything. Will give that a go i suspect.

Change of scope. - The mounting bracket is a bit weary, so i will get that powder-coated. Have a great chap who does all my bike stuff and quick enough not to hold up the show. Headlight brackets need a bit of attention as well. Mulling getting the towing hook off as well. if only you could see the bloody bolts at the top. more staring needed.

Tools - yes i need to get more organised today on that

cleaning the car - i have done a couple of small areas. I will get more into this each evening if i have to wait for the cooling parts.

Moving the car around - i need to accept it can't own the garage now holidays are over. So will have to get it over by starting it for a few secs to maneuver. not great but will that do any damage if its 30 secs from cold?

Thank you to everyone who has read this far if you did. and a big thank you to the folk who have commented to keep me thinking and offer wisdom. I am absorbing it all.

I own a Lotus!

[Owen L]

17/04/21 - Supplementary

Have i forgiven my former best friend for finding the advert, encouraging me to look at it, encouraging me to present a logical argument for purchase and then scaring me when i thought id bought someone else's failed head problem?

Well last night he rang me for advice on why his Lexus wouldn't start. Was hard not laugh. Told him to park it and go back to it in the morning. It started. so probably starter motor related. did i mention my LOTUS starts every time?