Leaky Water Pump

[Richmmm]

Following my car's successful MOT, the tester and myself were having a good look underneath at the engine and pipes etc.

He pointed out some water at the cambelt end of the engine dripping down. I mentioned that I suspected I had a water leak so it seems that the pump may be the culprit.

Reading the posts on here, the cam belt needs to come off, so it is best to replace it at the same time. Rock auto has been recommeded as a source for the parts - just checked their web site and they do a Timinng belt kit which includes the idler wheels and a water pump. Do I need any other parts from Rock auto while i am doing the order?

Is the crankshaft pulley likley to be difficult to remove?

Regards, Rich

[Saltire]

It would be wise to replace the auxiliary drive belt (alternator/power steering pump) at the same time. Dave Pink (pinky) has a list of the exact parts required from Roack Auto and will no doubt be along in a moment with a copy

Two words of warning

- some people have found that the water pump requires a little bit of grinding back in order to make it fit properly. I wasn’t affected, and I think it depends on what make of water pump you buy. There are threads discussing it elsewhere on the forum
- some have also found that they’re better with a slightly different length of auxiliary belt. I did, but unhelpfully I can’t remember whether it was a bit shorter or a bit longer. I know I had the same one as Jim (muley) so he might know

There are other people on the forum who are far more qualified than I to talk about this, and who will no doubt add their wisdom in due course, but I hope that’s a bit of help.

[muley]

Approached properly the crank pulley bolt can be removed fairly easily. I use a suitably shaped section of steel tube bolted to the pulley to hold it steady and set to with a breaker bar.
I have used the wedge a socket and lever, crank the engine method as well (but I don't prefer it)
Pulley can be pulled off with 3 leg puller

If you order a Rockauto Impulse alternator belt it will be too long. A 4pk700 ish will work on the M100 Elan ~ easily available on eBay.

[Richmmm]

Thanks for the info.......I will get a PAS pump belt and the alternator belt aswell.

Rich

[muley]

This https://youtu.be/osBhwSw3VBk

might be useful, too

[dapinky]

Dave Pink (pinky) has a list of the exact parts required from Roack Auto and will no doubt be along in a moment with a copy

This is the list of stuff I bought last time (2 years ago) - prices have changed, but it will give you an idea of what you need (but ignore the cam cover gasket, I wanted a spare to put in the garage!)

RA 2020.png

[Richmmm]

Looking on the Rock Auto site, it lists a Tming and water pump kit as part number USTK169

Is this the one i need?
( a search for the part number on your last post - 95169K1 didn't show any results)
Rich

[FunElan]

Looking on the Rock Auto site, it lists a Tming and water pump kit as part number USTK169

Is this the one i need?
( a search for the part number on your last post - 95169K1 didn't show any results)
Rich

Rich - I had purchased the rockauto kit by the brand 'US MotorWorks' and found that the water pump teeth had the wrong profile. Not sure if this would happen for everyone, but I returned the kit, and ended up finding a Dayco kit on eBay.

[Simon_P]

There is an 'O' ring on the end of one of the metal pipes and the coolant return pipe nearby the pump on the block. Worth a check before you change the pump.

[Richmmm]

I've been searching everywhere for the Dayco kit without success.

Rock Auto only now supply the USTK169 kit - however it is about half the cost of buying the parts from
SJ etc.

Has any one in the UK bought the USTK169 kit from Rock Auto? I dont really want to have to return it if it is wrong.

Regards, Rich

[FunElan]

I've been searching everywhere for the Dayco kit without success.

Rock Auto only now supply the USTK169 kit - however it is about half the cost of buying the parts from
SJ etc.

Has any one in the UK bought the USTK169 kit from Rock Auto? I dont really want to have to return it if it is wrong.

Regards, Rich

See above, I did, and the water pump had incorrect teeth. YMMV

[dapinky]

I have never bought a 'full' kit with a waterpump as part of it, only a 'timing kit' and separate water pumps.

Many years ago I did get a water pump which had the wrong teeth on it, and it appears to have come from a bad batch at the time.

If that is the only kit you can currently get, then your a bit limited in options - but I wouldn't do it that way at all.......

...... whilst getting it all in one box is clearly simple, if you order the parts from RA individually, it works out far cheaper (even allowing for shipping from 2 separate locations).....

I have played around with options, and the below "shopping list" is what I would start with - there is a cheaper water pump option, but it ships separately so has increased handling/import costs.... but as the Gates unit is in the same warehouse as the other bits, it becomes better value to spend a bit more on the pump and save overall.

Putting in a UK address shows that I can have the whole lot on my doorstep on 1st August for £88.45 including VAT, import duties, shipping etc - or even a few days earlier if I pay an extra £15.

RA list.png

This doesn't include any other bits (PAS/Alternator belts, thermostats, anything else you fancy adding) - so you may have to play around with the whole thing to see which options of those parts will also ship from the same location, and then decide if it's worth adding them.

What I do is simply add EVERY option of item to my basket - so in the above list I had 3 timing tensioners, 4 idlers and chose a couple of belts from the list, then added 3 water pumps - ignoring either the ridiculously expensive ones, or any which I feel may be crap quality...... if you go with Gates etc you are on fairly safe ground.

Then pulling up the cart it will show you which items are in the same warehouse, so I throw out anything which ships separately and narrow it down to a couple of options - then see whether it is better to pay more for an item with less shipping, or get a cheaper item and pay more shipping..... it always varies..... either way, it's how I do it - but it's your choice!

[Richmmm]

Thanks to everyone for the info and comments.
I will get the order processed early in the week.
Rich

[378S2]

I’m due a cam belt next year, so this is very helpful thank you - will order the parts now.

One question - are we all changing the pumps, tensioners and idlers just because the incremental effort (time and $$) is marginal or because there’s a measurable benefit? My car will be lucky to have done 5,000 km since the last set went in and I really do think I’m wasting my time and money (but I’ll do it anyway!).

[Tuga2112]

I’m due a cam belt next year, so this is very helpful thank you - will order the parts now.

One question - are we all changing the pumps, tensioners and idlers just because the incremental effort (time and $$) is marginal or because there’s a measurable benefit? My car will be lucky to have done 5,000 km since the last set went in and I really do think I’m wasting my time and money (but I’ll do it anyway!).

mostly incremental effort. HOWEVER. IMO a failed pump is an (silent) engine killer, the risk reward gamble for the price of a new pump is practically a no brainer, even tho your old pump should be in perfect condition (assuming the coolant was not mixed in with tap water and started to rust the pump)
If i was pressed for money, i would still put a new pump and skip the iddler and tensioner. BUT if i was pressed for money, i wouldnt be doing the belt at all and just keep the car off the road until money wasnt a problem.

just my 2c

[378S2]

I think that’s fair. I’ve just bought the full Monty from RA using Dave’s part numbers. I know the last set of tensioners & idlers that went in were OEM Lotus parts from SJ, so I may well leave them alone if they are in good condition. The water pump though I’ll change regardless.

[dapinky]

When I got my elan (the first one!) it needed a head gasket, so it made sense to just research the system and do the whole lot.

The tensioner and idler are not considered to be 'service items' and don't have a regular change interval, but everything I read on t'internet suggested that they have a life of 80-100K miles (for other cars of the era), and my red car had just shy of 120K on the clock - so I decided to change them at the same time.

They will wear with mileage, not so much with age, so I now tend to replace them on any car with an unknown previous change (whatever the mileage) and thenceforth just change the belt in accordance with the schedule.

Again, the water pump isn't considered to be a 'service item' but as it's failure could be a real bummer, together with it's ease to change whilst doing the belt anyway compared to doing it at a different time, it just makes sense to me to do it at the time - they are cheap enough to make it a no-brainer (and it ensures that the coolant is changed anyway, as opposed to just topped up over time).

If you have a known to be good set of idler/tensioner, then doing just the pump and belt makes perfect sense.

As for the PAS/Alternator belts - I just do them as they are cheap and I don't want to be doing them again another time! (but probably don't need it).

[simonbuk]

I know people say use Rock Auto as they are the cheapest but they must be buying cheaper idler,/tensioners - as Gates are 50 quid each !

Just checking that we've had succes with these other idlers/tensioners ?!

Any ones in particular to go for ?

[dapinky]

I have always used Dayco ones, because Rock had them in stock when I bought some! (I have still got one set left in the garage, so will have to get something else when I use them).

At the moment, I'd be buying the GMB ones as they are probably no worse than any others - but if I fit them and they fail after a year, it's no great problem 'cos I'll just do it again as labour costs me nowt!

If you are paying someone to do the work, that is a big consideration, and you may feel happier getting more expensive ones - although I have no idea if price makes them any better, or if so, by what amount.

At £25 for the pair, they make good financial sense to me - but you will have to make up your own mind... others may tell you that these are crap and to go for something else, but I really don't know as I have never bought them.

[simonbuk]

I've got to learn how to do this !! Must have spent hundreds and hundreds and hundreds over the years !!

Do you need any specialist tools or can you lock the cams without ?

ETA - just watching Toby's video on it - looks a right phaff !!