Refurbished alternator now reads 16v on idle.

[Tuga2112]

yes, title says it all.

question for the sparkies is, should i worry ? is there something about the way the voltage regulator from SimonP 's group buy that i needed to do to make it regulate voltage better ?
the 16v reading was done on the car's voltmeter. i will be checking again with an external multimeter. but prior to rebuilding the alternator i know for a fact the voltmeter was working fine. and before the car started it read 12.5 which matched the battery voltage prior to installing in the car.

[Tuga2112]

ive now removed the alternator and replaced the voltage regulator with a different (also new) voltage regulator from the second refurbish kit and got the exact same behaviour happening.

one thing that i did this time, was to put the multimeter checking for voltage across the battery terminals.

started car, and voltage was reading 16 and rising.
i quickly switched on the lights, which stopped the voltage from rising, and keept it around the 16v mark.
i then switched on the full beams and the voltage dropped to 14.4v
all these voltage readings were while the car was iddle (note a cold start will iddle higher than warm car)

i am tempted to remove the alternator AGAIN and try installing the original voltage regulator to see what results i get.
the reason i have hope that this will fix my problem is based on a couple of possible events.

1- the voltage regulators from simon's refurb kit are somewhat not compatible with the new bridge rectifier
2 - the original voltage regulator can operate with the new bridge rectifier and is not faulty

again. still in need of any help that i can get with this issue. im basically guessing my way into getting things working here, but im hoping to not need to buy a full alternator to replace which would be a little costy

[Tuga2112]

I have now replaced the alternator 3 times.
all the iterations were using the new rectifier bridge, with 2 different NEW voltage regulators from SimonP kits and onse with the original voltage regulator.
no difference in the voltage as soon as i start the car and it iddles its at 16v and climbing.
i am unsure if the bridge is the reason for this issue, i am starting to think that there is a possiblity something else is wrong in the circuitry,

according to internal tests one of the stator windings shouldnt be operating at the moment,
which would give less output then expected, and the original rectifier bridge definitely has 1 diode broken.
the broken diode does not match the open winding, which suggests that my alternator was operating on a single winding when i took it out, but there is a chance that has been operating on only 2/3 windings for a longer period of time while i thought it was fine.

I am wondering if the issue is actually "outside" of the alternator and not its internals.

I will wait for input for a few days before oredering a new alternator just in case theres some ideas coming up

[peteoddcar]

Joao
I sent you message on FB messenger - make sure the correct screws are fitted to the regulator. I guess you did already but worth a check
I att, a video link too that details the repair procedure

[peteoddcar]

https://youtu.be/qlccLGgvIW0

[peteoddcar]

https://youtu.be/qlccLGgvIW0

[Tuga2112]

Joao
I sent you message on FB messenger - make sure the correct screws are fitted to the regulator. I guess you did already but worth a check
I att, a video link too that details the repair procedure

i havent got any messages on facebook. but i will have a look at the video. if theres some small detail about how the screws need to be installed. that will probably be what i done wrong. and if that is it. than fingers crossed ill be back on track tomorow.

[Tuga2112]

https://youtu.be/qlccLGgvIW0

ive watched the video and i am not sure what you meant by the screws.

this is the video of myself doing the work the first time (its been re-done now 3 times with the other 2 regulators, but basically its always been done the same way)

can you elaborate about the screws ?

[Fredjohn]

Joao

FYI It's idle not iddle!

Good work though. My fitment of the group buy kit worked perfectly, so could the problem be the other new part you fitted?

[Tuga2112]

Good work though. My fitment of the group buy kit worked perfectly, so could the problem be the other new part you fitted?

its a possibility,
all the checks ive done with the multimeter suggest the new rectifier has the same specs as the old one. (the good terminals of the broken rectifier readings matched all the readings on the new rectifier.

later today im going to check the voltage at the regulator inputs. theres a possibility theres a lower reading at that end than the real battery voltage. something like that would trigger the alternator into overdrive.

i am tempted to buy a new unit from SJ just to be completely sure. its pricey but im runing out of ideas at this point, but still hoping that someone in the forum has some insight

[RonR]

Joao, don't give up on it yet.

From what I read on a website for kit aeroplanes Here, over-voltage can be caused by a problem in the Field Coil circuit, possibly a bad connection, a broken wire or a problem with the brushes or slip rings. Further down in the article there are some tests to carry out to check if the Field circuit is working properly.

Good Luck!

[Tuga2112]

Joao, don't give up on it yet.

From what I read on a website for kit aeroplanes Here, over-voltage can be caused by a problem in the Field Coil circuit, possibly a bad connection, a broken wire or a problem with the brushes or slip rings. Further down in the article there are some tests to carry out to check if the Field circuit is working properly.

Good Luck!

Thanks Ron. That was a usefull find.

i am afraid im at the point of calling it a day. because i took the whole ting to the workbench again and tested the stator windings and i found that 1 of them is open circuit.
which together with this little quote from your RC airplane page

A slight increase in voltage may indicate resistance building up in the field circuit for some reason. A corroding connection or a partially broken wire could be the cause. The failure of one of the stator coils could also cause voltage to rise. The important point is that just as decreasing voltage is bad, so too is increasing voltage. If it changes, there must be a reason

i am in a funny position where i dont know if the rectifier bridge is good or not for the alternator. which means i cannot help the comunity going forward. but im also in the annoying position to both buy the replacement alternator due to time constraints as well as give myself the extra work to find if its possible to replace the stator which cost wise becomes worthless effort (roughtly another £40 on top of the cost of the kit + £25 from the bridge its getting close to a whole unit).
I already came across a ebay seller from lithuania that has stators for alternators which are cross reference to the bridge rectifier i have, but not the elan's specific housing (although dimentions may fit)

i will be keeping the old unit and when the next elan enters the grage, if the alternator is easily accessible for any reason. i will then re-address the situation.

[Tuga2112]

I have purchased a replacement new altenrator from SJs

one thing to note about the new alternator is that it is somewhat bigger than the one that came out of the car. i didnt measure it, but it certainly had a lot less slack on the belt and was a lot harder to place into position

I am still in contact with rotating electrics in order to supply a replacement stator so i can 100% refurbish my original alternator

i think it may be worth moving this thread to the small projects section as effectively i am now in the quest to refurbish the alternator to the extent that has not been documented in the past.

one thing to note is that the stator on the original alternator is loosely pressed in place, and came out without any major dificulties. all i needed was a narrow centre punch to get access to the core metal near the windings and a 4lb copper hammer plus some patience.

now some pictures just to add details for anyone in future of measurements of bits and bobs

[dapinky]

Joao,

I'd be interested to establish what alternator SJ's actually supplied you with, and how it may or may not relate to anything on the Rock Auto website for the Impulse......

..... I was under the impression (but I can't remember where the information came from) that Lotus didn't use the standard Isuzu unit as it was too big for the application - not just for the space available between the engine and the bulkhead, but more for getting it in and out through the wheelarch/suspension. Obviously, these difficulties don't apply quite so much if you install it by removing the prongeron - but it will be interesting to find out how easily (or not!) it could be removed by following the WSM procedure.

I have only had to change one once, and did it through the wheelarch, and it was a bit of a bugger.... other times I have had the prongeron off and it was easy (but I was only seeing how easy it was - it wasn't removed for any failure reason).

I would be quite happy to do a change through the prongeron space if it meant that getting the alternator was significantly cheaper and/or easier.

[Tuga2112]

Dave

i removed the prongeron as well as undoing the exhaust pipe and pushing it asside. then the alternator can fit through with a bit of wiggle.
ive never tried from the wheelarch and from observing the area i can only assume the WSM procedure requires you to remove the power steering pipe out of the way.
even with the power steering pipe out of the way, just by eye measurement i expect it to be a narrower slot than the opening i made by pushing the exaust pipe to the side

if you skip to 9 minutes in the video you will get a good idea of how the alternator came out.

i guess we both need to try the oposite approach in order to conclude which is the most practical means to remove the alternator.

personally with the approach i have done it, the only challenging thing was fitting the tensioning bolt at the top, which can be made easier if you remove the PAS tank, which i didnt

to put it into perspective, the last time i installed the original alternator, it took me 40 minutes, which was done at a leasure pace and close to half of the time was struggling with the top bolt (because i didnt remove the PAS tank)

if i manage to get a suitable replacement stator i will be refitting the old alternator in order to test it to conclude this "side project"
im taking this challenge rather personally because i believe there are potentially multiple gains by refurbishing the alternator both in future proofing the maintenance of it, as well as saving some money compared to the SJs alternator and potentially (im hoping) an alternative stator + rectifier bridge combination may increase the peak current output which has its multiple advantages in an electrical .

so far my stator research i only came across suitable sizes that are rated for 50a (sadly less than factory) but i have one more company looking into it which hopefully will come forward with a better option

[dapinky]

Looking again at RA pricing, due to the 'core' charges and the hefty postage, it is a few quid cheaper than SJ's, but not the sort of saving which we would usually see - I suppose it is about £30 less (by the time you add VAT and postage to the UK prices).

All of the units they list are rebuilt items, with a 75A output, not the 55A specified for the Elan...... but if it fits, then it is possibly worthwhile.

[Tuga2112]

Looking again at RA pricing, due to the 'core' charges and the hefty postage, it is a few quid cheaper than SJ's, but not the sort of saving which we would usually see - I suppose it is about £30 less (by the time you add VAT and postage to the UK prices).

All of the units they list are rebuilt items, with a 75A output, not the 55A specified for the Elan...... but if it fits, then it is possibly worthwhile.

137 for the sj one

would be nice if one of the US based owners could purchase one of those 75amp units and take all measurements to compare to this, i certainly would like a 75a one in my car

[Tuga2112]

I Have found a stator that should be a match for the alternator housing.
this will be posted to me on monday.
fingers crossed by the end of next week i will have more details about the progress of the refurbishment and maybe ill be able to completely refurbish any Elan alternator as long as the core is functioning.

[FunElan]

Your video is illuminating (see what I did there?), thank you for recording that! If there's anything you need US based owners to buy and test, let me know.

[roy666]

Tuga - I bought a Alternator from SJ's last year. I was catious to begin with becuase I bought one from SJ's in 2016, which did not work properly (and the batt light remained on all the time)... I sent it back and got a refund; I then had my original one refurbed. It lasted until last year...so I decided to try SJ's again; on speaking to Steve he said that he had sourced his new stock from China! So far it's performing brilliantly (although I do still have the dreaded red light batt on all the time.. there's another thread somewhere on this).. and Steve also provided a new (different length) belt... all fitted really well. Good Luck Mike