elan scan drivers

[chrism]

Hi MPx. Yes, I think mine was originally a beta-link but the only one I found last night wouldn't let me download because it was barred due to being unsafe.

Good to finally know, though, that it loaded into win8 for you - which I think was the same architecture as win10/11? Also good to know that you didn't have to look specifically for the later FTDI win10/11 files. I thought that when I found and loaded them that this is might be the piece of magic that made them work in win10/11...but apparently not so .

Anyway, I'll keep trying (I've even found old win 7 discs to try, again...) but I could do with other experiences to confirm win10/11 + ES successful combinations, from other members as well, in order to fully confirm whether it's a legacy issue - or not.

Hmmm...I wonder if Microsoft or FDTI are playing silly blighters by labelling FDTI chips as 'counterfeit' (whether they actually are or not - and whether they actually know or not)?

Frustrating. In my mind it's no good having ES stuff unless it works properly...

RonR's given this a good 'dusting' too...

[MPx]

Just to be clear Chris, I'm sure I loaded my current ES clean from an online link into this W10 XPS laptop when I got it...so sometime after June 2017. It wasn't copied from any older machine of mine.

[RonR]

Just cobbled together an old laptop and am installing W8.1. I'll test Trevor's cable to give a base-line, then step through several versions of W10 until it stops working. This could take some time...

[chrism]

I think with we might be edging away from the middle of the swamp with this ES 'pain'.

MPx I'm encouraged to see that it's not a win10/11 problem or an updated FDTI drivers issue (although other good experiences from forum members might cement my hopes) and I'm about to mirror RonR with an old hard-drive, a renewed grapple with loading win7 (then upgrading to win10 if it runs ES) and trying to grab hold of that beta version that I'm sure I got working before...

Update: Well, today I loaded win7 onto a spare hard-drive but wasn't able to update iexplorer 8 to iexplorer 11 (because ie11 is no more) so, as expected, I couldn't 'hand-shake' the modem to get on the net - meaning I couldn't update the win7 drivers to talk to a com port. Needless to say I loaded ES from my PC onto the win7 hdrive via a usb stick but ES refused to talk exactly as before...not surprised really; I've tried it before.

(But anyway the MPx revelation means that it isn't a win7 'issue' and we must await a RonR report.) MPx - did you keep your ES beta copy in 'downloads' by any chance? )

[dapinky]

I have an old netbook that was running W8.1, I wiped it and installed W10, and it works fine with the drivers and collects data on ES.

My W11 machine doesn't!

It is the same whether I use the lead or Bluetooth, so I can't see that it is a driver issue (different com port with B/T, and no chip drivers required????).

I have no solutions, just posting in case it means something to someone who knows about these things

[KenS]

I have just checked my setup for Elanscan and found it still works.
This comprises:
Windows10 Home build 21H2 19044.1645
ElanScan File Version 0.9.9.65 Product version 0.9.9.46
FTDI Driver Version 2.12.36.4 dated 5-July-2021.

(could it be that the later Windows build/update 22H2 is the problem?)

[RonR]

So - Results for W8.1 on my test laptop:

ECU data acquisition works with 3 versions of ElanScan - 0.9.9.63, 0.9.9.65, and 0.10.12.72(beta),
and 2 versions of the FTDI Drivers - 2.12.28.1 and 2.12.36.4

Just installing the oldest W10 I have - 20H2....

[chrism]

Wow, loadsa useful feedback already

Dapinky I have a feeling that all win11 machines will have updated to 22H2 (I might be wrong tho') so your observation could support KenS if that's true.

KenS I, too, have ElanScan File Version 0.9.9.65 Product version 0.9.9.46 on win11Pro 22H2 build 22621.1992. I'm feeling that 22H2 might be significant! I don't know how to check the FDTI drivers (anyone know how I can find this info?) - but they were the most modern I could get...certainly 2021, if not later...

Mine 'works' with my previous - and other people's data - but won't currently collect/read from the car with this combination.

I'm waiting to see if RonR's 20H2 result works with acquisition of data. (Since my win11 works with ready-acquired data I reckon they all will - but getting data read as well seems to be the 'clincher'.)

I'm going to reload to win10 like RonR and see what version I get, but I'll try win10Pro. My l/top won't update to win11; the only way I got win11 on it was by cloning the win11Pro drive from my desktop PC.

[KenS]

Chris, there are probably a few ways of finding the FTDI driver version installed, one way is with the interface connected to a USB port, open Device manager, then expand the Ports entry, double click the entry relavent to the used port to show its properties, click on its Driver tab. eg: (image is a bit small but should give enough visibility)

driver.JPG

[RonR]

Results for W10 20H2 on my test laptop:

ECU data acquisition works with 3 versions of ElanScan - 0.9.9.63, 0.9.9.65, and 0.10.12.72(beta),
and 2 versions of the FTDI Drivers - 2.12.28.1 and 2.12.36.4

BUT...

There's a small drop-out of data, between 2 and 10% - averaging 5% with all versions of ElanScan and both sets of drivers.

Testing Method:
ES Beta interrogates the ECU twice as often as the previous versions (every 100mS) so in order to do a like-for-like comparison I set the "Acquisition Period" to 1000mS for all my tests, then captured 1 minute of data. Errors were all displayed as "No frame start byte received - No reply", and the number of frames actually captured is displayed when "Stop Talking" is clicked.

Next stop: W10 22H2....

[chrism]

Thanks for info KenS. Using your good advice I found that my FTDI drivers are 2.12.36.4, the same as your working set-up of FTDI drivers and ES. The only difference is that I'm running win11Pro 22H2 - so you seem to be right that 22H2 (in win11) might be the culprit so far.

RonR I loaded win10 which started off as vers 1809 but an update was 'demanded' and it's now busy installing win10Pro 22H2 which I suspect won't work since 22H2 didn't enable win11Pro. I'll report back asap when I've loaded ES 0.9.9.65 and FTDI 2.12.36 so we can see if your win10 20H2 and my win 10 22H2 give acquisition? (phew getting square eyes...)

Edit: did the download again and got win10 ver 1809 and I'm going to try ES in this version w/out updating, again to see if its a 22H2 problem...

[chrism]

Yes!! I got win10Pro 1809 working with ES 0.9.9.65 and no FTDI drivers added AND it talked and logged - tho' the right hand column continually read 'no frame start byte.../no reply' etc as with RonR.

I took a screen shot but it was too large and I can't reduce it atm - and I can't add the ecu file either 'cos the extension ecu is not allowed'.

I won't upgrade win10Pro 1809 yet cos I reckon it'll jump straight to 22H2, as before, and RonR is on the way to trying this version.

So...I think we're getting somewhere?

[chrism]

A next-day-update. Yes, the lap-top wanted to update from winPro10 1809 to 22H2 so I went along with it.

I then tried plugging ES into the car in this new format and it 'talked' and 'logged' and I was able to save the ecu log - so it might seem to me that ES version 0.9.9.65 will run in the later win10/11 versions (with no extra FTDI driver update) if it's already been installed on an earlier version - in my case win10Pro vers 1809.**

Again whilst data-logging it protested with the right-hand column continually reading 'no frame start byte.../no reply' etc (as with RonR) and I further noticed that if you engage the cursor it reads graph points but freezes the ES application so that the only way of coming out is to reduce it by using the - key at the top rhs of the screen: At first sight his was the only way of effectively switching out of ES.

It'll be interesting to see if ES loads directly into win10/11 22H2 and it seems RonR will be investigating this iteration (ie without loading into a previous application first...) I've previously found found that loading ES 0.9.9.65 straight into win10Pro 22H2 hasn't worked for me but let's see what Ron comes up with...

** I'm certainly going to hang on to my early win10 1908 usb packaged 'dongle'.

Let's hope this contributes to the 'talking/'logging problems that we might possibly be inheriting due to Windows updates?

ps I've attached today's file:-

ecu4.zip

pps the only ES_beta version I've found won't let me download it

[KenS]

Ron, does the latency setting for the FTDI port have a bearing on the number of missed 'frame start'. Its hard to be sure but I seem to get a lot more if I leave the Latecy setting at 16ms, but only see the odd one with it set at the recommended 1ms. At 1ms I get one pop up in 2 or 3 minutes which is quite a low rate. I don't understand what 'latency ' is, but could different Windows builds be adding to the inherant latency of the system?

[RonR]

Results for W10-22H2 to follow, but in the meantime I've been looking at what happens when it doesn't work - e.g. on my newer Laptop:

ES starts to send data to the ECU as a string of command bytes - The "Mode 1" command for getting ES type data is: Hex:F4,56,01,B5. As the ALDL interface has only 1 wire which has to contain data going in both directions (i.e. it uses Half-Duplex communication), this string is reflected back to ES (Which is where latency comes into things). ES then checks this "Echo" as an integrity check - If it doesn't see Hex:F4,56,01,B5 it reports "Bad Echo", and displays what ES received back.
Here's one I did last night:

IMG_0763.jpg

So it looks like we have some sort of data corruption going on, it could be related to baud rate, drivers, or maybe even something electrical.

With that in mind I started to look at the driver stacks and noticed a difference between the 2 machines - the newer one is USB3 capable, the older one is USB2. The upper layers of USB drivers are different between the machines!

Could those that are following this give an update on whether their machines work and which USB drivers are loaded please?

To find out, bring up Device Manager, then View - Devices by connection. If your ES cable isn't plugged in you'll have to choose View - Show hidden devices.

For my USB3 equipped machine:
If I expand the entry "PCI Express Root complex", I see the USB entry - "Intel(R) USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller - 1.0 (Microsoft)"
Under that I have "USB Root Hub (USB 3.0), then "USB Serial Converter", then "USB Serial Port (Com3)"

For USB2:
If I expand the entry "PCI Bus", I see the USB entry - "Standard OpenHCD USB Host Controller"
Under that I have "USB Root Hub", then "USB Serial Converter", then "USB Serial Port (Com3)"

Inching nearer to a solution..... I think!

[KenS]

Hi Ron,
For my working setup (Win10 21H2), its running on an elderly HP G56 laptop with USB2 ports.

Specifically for the active USB port, I have:

"Standard OpenHCD USB Host Controller"
"USB Root Hub"
"USB Serial Converter"
"USB Serial Port (COM9)"

Hope it adds to the picture.

[RonR]

Results for W10 22H2 on my test laptop:

ECU data acquisition works with 3 versions of ElanScan - 0.9.9.63, 0.9.9.65, and 0.10.12.72(beta),
and 2 versions of the FTDI Drivers - 2.12.28.1 and 2.12.36.4

BUT...

There's a small drop-out of data, between 2 and 10% - averaging 5% with all versions of ElanScan and both sets of drivers.

This was tested twice - once with just-installed W10 22H2, then again after Windows Update had done it's stuff and brought the OS up to the latest level.

I did some googling and found this document detailing problems with USB3 and FTDI, but they say it was fixed in Windows 8???
USB 3.0 Compatibility Issues Explained

[RonR]

Found another link on an Arduino forum where a powered USB2 hub is used between the PC and the FTDI cable - Here
Does anyone have one they can try on a Win10 + USB3-equipped PC which doesn't currently work with ES acquisition?

[chrism]

My results:-

Win10Pro 1809 then upgraded to 22H2 / ES 0.9.9.65 no extra FTDI / USB3 port. Both win10 versions give data acquisition but with some discrepancy. Here's the USB data from 22H2 (needs clicking on to enlarge...)

USB3a.jpg

I've got data from the USB2 port of the same machine but I didn't try this process thinking that the USB3 port is 'better'. I will if anyone thinks it's significant:-

USB2a.jpg

Hope this helps but it's getting a little beyond my understanding, I'm afraid...

I notice that the USB3 data introduces a serial converter but the USB2 data doesn't...

Sorry can't help with win10 22H2 / USB3 / non-working - mine worked okay BUT after updating from 1809.

[RonR]

Looks like we may need to delve into Driver Versions for USB3 drivers....

Mine are:

Code: Select all

Vendor      Version           Date         Driver     
Microsoft   10.0.19041.3086   21/06/2006   "PCI Express Root complex"
Microsoft   10.0.19041.3031   08/05/2023   "Intel(R) USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller - 1.0 (Microsoft)"
Microsoft   10.0.19041.3208   06/07/2023   "USB Root Hub (USB 3.0)"
FTDI        2.12.36.4         05/07/2021   "USB Serial Converter"
FTDI        2.12.36.4         05/07/2021   "USB Serial Port (Com3)"