Willwood parts

[Geordie]

Hi all
After loads of info etc etc ,I’m trying to put willwood brakes on front of my elan se turbo 15” wheels ,I’ve sourced some calipers but need remainder of kit ,this seems to be an upgrade done a few years ago so these bits are rare ,can anyone help ,the obvious choice is PNM but would rather have something different and heard good things about willwood ,I’ve even contacted willwood direct but no joy
Thanks in advance
Geordie

[dapinky]

You are in for a whole world of pain, unless you either have the skills, or the desire to learn the skills, necessary to complete the job.

Sourcing the callipers is easy - they are all still listed in their catalogue, and can be bought second-hand.

The difficulty comes in mounting them in a suitable location to use whatever discs (rotors) you decide will work in a suitable manner. The system used in previous iterations uses a bespoke bell, mounted to a suitable rotor..... and finding a pair of those is going to be hard. After that, mounting the callipers may or may not just require a few washers, or a complete bracket assembly - I don't know as i've never fitted them.

Then, if you do find a set for sale, you need them to fit inside a 15" wheel - the system was developed in USA, where the SE Elan was fitted with 16" wheels..... I don't know if any were designed for the 15" rims or not - but I seem to remember John Orton having a set on his car, so either they all fit, or some can be modified to fit.

[Fredjohn]

Yes I do have 15'' Wilwood brakes, as Dave says.
I bought the whole kit secondhand.
You can easily buy the calipers and rotors and pads, BUT you CANNOT buy the caliper mounting bracket or the bell housing to mount the rotor to the hub off the shelf. They were specially made 10-15 years ago.

PNM are a good brand with, I am told, good customer service. There is really no reason not to buy them if you want to upgrade and are UK based.

PS add your location to your profile. It will help others to give assistance, especially if they are close by!

[Geordie]

Yes I do have 15'' Wilwood brakes, as Dave says.
I bought the whole kit secondhand.
You can easily buy the calipers and rotors and pads, BUT you CANNOT buy the caliper mounting bracket or the bell housing to mount the rotor to the hub off the shelf. They were specially made 10-15 years ago.

PNM are a good brand with, I am told, good customer service. There is really no reason not to buy them if you want to upgrade and are UK based.

PS add your location to your profile. It will help others to give assistance, especially if they are close by!

Hi
Nice to hear someone else isn’t using PNM ,I’m sure they are very good ,I just like to be a bit different ,someone somewhere I’m sure will have what I’m after stashed away ,it’s just finding them
Geordie

[dapinky]

Geordie,

As I said before, finding the parts you need is going to be the problem (unless you find someone with either the drawings to make some new bits, or is willing to use theirs as a template for production)....

....only half a dozen sets were made for use with the 15" wheels, and they all were sold to people who fitted them to their cars back 20 years ago! No sets were ever "squirrelled away" (unless I'm wrong!) to the best of my knowledge, as Brian made one run of parts for the UK LEC members who wanted them at the time. As he is USA based, it was an adaptation to his sets for the US market, which used 16" wheels.

Of the people who had the original 6 sets, 5 are still fitted to the original purchasers' cars (although three of those cars have changed hands), and one car was written off.... which is where John got his set from (good fortune of being in the right place at the right time).

I cant see any of the owners I know of to ever wish to sell theirs, as they were purchased to do a good job, which they still do - there is just no reason for them to ever become available for sale unless the car(s) get written off, or otherwise broken for spares.

If you want to carry on trying, I wish you luck, but would suggest that you aim more towards getting a set borrowed for reproduction than buying a set....... but I may be completely wrong and you may get lucky!

http://wikilec.com/view/Brake_upgrades

[Geordie]

Geordie,

As I said before, finding the parts you need is going to be the problem (unless you find someone with either the drawings to make some new bits, or is willing to use theirs as a template for production)....

....only half a dozen sets were made for use with the 15" wheels, and they all were sold to people who fitted them to their cars back 20 years ago! No sets were ever "squirrelled away" (unless I'm wrong!) to the best of my knowledge, as Brian made one run of parts for the UK LEC members who wanted them at the time. As he is USA based, it was an adaptation to his sets for the US market, which used 16" wheels.

Of the people who had the original 6 sets, 5 are still fitted to the original purchasers' cars (although three of those cars have changed hands), and one car was written off.... which is where John got his set from (good fortune of being in the right place at the right time).

I cant see any of the owners I know of to ever wish to sell theirs, as they were purchased to do a good job, which they still do - there is just no reason for them to ever become available for sale unless the car(s) get written off, or otherwise broken for spares.

If you want to carry on trying, I wish you luck, but would suggest that you aim more towards getting a set borrowed for reproduction than buying a set....... but I may be completely wrong and you may get lucky!

http://wikilec.com/view/Brake_upgrades

Hi ya
You obviously know more than me about this subject ,but it’s made me more determined to find an alternative to the PNM set up ? As you say ,you never know what the future holds ,I’m in no hurry but thought I’d get my ideas out there early ,,,I will continue to scout around for willwood and other alternatives ,some may come available but I wouldn’t want any bodies car written of for my gain ,thanks for all your input into this matter
Geordie

[Neil D.]

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=17915

I may still have drawings somewhere for 16 inch alloys. Don't hold your breath,

Neil

[Geordie]

https://forum.lotuselancentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=17915

I may still have drawings somewhere for 16 inch alloys. Don't hold your breath,

Neil

Hi Neil
That’s very kind of you but mines 15” oz wheels which I would like to keep
Many thanks

[niall]

As Dave has written, these were a limited run quite a few years ago. I bought a set for 15” wheels although I have 16” federal wheels fitted and my Willwoods with rotors etc were in fact squirrelled away till 2years ago when they were fitted.
Would you be able to manufacture a set if given the chance to measure up an existing set? If not, I agree with Dave’s estimation of your chances of obtaining any now.

[HJ2]

If I recall correctly ‘Brians Hats’ fitted both: 15 and 16” but the brackets to fit the calipers & brake rotor diameters were different?

I have a full set for 16” available, but it is allready promised to someone else.
I’ll keep you posted in case the sale is off.

[Geordie]

If I recall correctly ‘Brians Hats’ fitted both: 15 and 16” but the brackets to fit the calipers & brake rotor diameters were different?

I have a full set for 16” available, but it is allready promised to someone else.
I’ll keep you posted in case the sale is off.

Yes please ,I think I’m getting somewhere (slowly)

[dapinky]

If I recall correctly ‘Brians Hats’ fitted both: 15 and 16” but the brackets to fit the calipers & brake rotor diameters were different?

I have a full set for 16” available, but it is allready promised to someone else.
I’ll keep you posted in case the sale is off.

It would make sense for both systems to use the same hats, as I believe that many rotors use the same bolt pattern, and obviously, the hub is the same.

So, finding a set of hats may be a little easier, and then it is just a means of mounting the callipers (I know that different callipers were specified for 15" wheels, but I don't know what the differences are between them and how much clearance is between the wheel rim and calliper.)

[Geordie]

If I recall correctly ‘Brians Hats’ fitted both: 15 and 16” but the brackets to fit the calipers & brake rotor diameters were different?

I have a full set for 16” available, but it is allready promised to someone else.
I’ll keep you posted in case the sale is off.

It would make sense for both systems to use the same hats, as I believe that many rotors use the same bolt pattern, and obviously, the hub is the same.

So, finding a set of hats may be a little easier, and then it is just a means of mounting the callipers (I know that different callipers were specified for 15" wheels, but I don't know what the differences are between them and how much clearance is between the wheel rim and calliper.)

I’ve found a contact that has a set of calipers for the 15” wheels ,but as you say I don’t know if the brkts are different ,I suspect they are
Cheers

[HJ2]

It could very well be that the calipers are identical as well.
Google the forum for ‘brians hats’

[dapinky]

I’ve found a contact that has a set of calipers for the 15” wheels ,but as you say I don’t know if the brkts are different ,I suspect they are
Cheers

Bearing in mind that I have never fitted these, so my only information is what i am (only now) trying to research from the interweb....

.... the 2 callipers listed for the 15" & 16" wheels were completely different 'series' of units, with different mounting systems - one is a radial mount, and the other is a unilug design.

As such, the brackets are certainly different, and one cannot be "cut down" to fit the other.

The hardest part is going to be getting hold of the bells - but if we accept that the 15 & 16 versions are the same, then getting the rotors is easy enough, as is getting the callipers.

The hardest bit is going to be holding the right calliper in the right place...... but with my knowledge of other brake systems, this is "only" a steel bracket mount (radial calliper) or a machined aluminium block (unilug calliper). It may be even simpler than that, with a modification of the current bracketry and a few washers (but I would expect that if such things had been suitable, Brian would have done it that way).

None of this stuff is impossible - after all, people have been fitting other brake systems for years..... I had Princess callipers on my Capri back in the '80's, and have Sierra vented brakes on my Dolomite Sprint now.

I haven't looked at the dimensions of the Wilwoods compared to Hi-Specs, so it may even be that the PNM brackets will work with the Wilwoods, either 'as-is' or with a modification.

[HJ2]

It could very well be that the calipers are identical as well.
Google the forum for ‘brians hats’

Or let dave google LEC for you

[Tuga2112]

Bearing in mind that I have never fitted these, so my only information is what i am (only now) trying to research from the interweb....

.... the 2 callipers listed for the 15" & 16" wheels were completely different 'series' of units, with different mounting systems - one is a radial mount, and the other is a unilug design.

As such, the brackets are certainly different, and one cannot be "cut down" to fit the other.

The hardest part is going to be getting hold of the bells - but if we accept that the 15 & 16 versions are the same, then getting the rotors is easy enough, as is getting the callipers.

The hardest bit is going to be holding the right calliper in the right place...... but with my knowledge of other brake systems, this is "only" a steel bracket mount (radial calliper) or a machined aluminium block (unilug calliper). It may be even simpler than that, with a modification of the current bracketry and a few washers (but I would expect that if such things had been suitable, Brian would have done it that way).

None of this stuff is impossible - after all, people have been fitting other brake systems for years..... I had Princess callipers on my Capri back in the '80's, and have Sierra vented brakes on my Dolomite Sprint now.

I haven't looked at the dimensions of the Wilwoods compared to Hi-Specs, so it may even be that the PNM brackets will work with the Wilwoods, either 'as-is' or with a modification.

your likelyness of getting a phone call from me in the near future is increasing very fast

[tigerdog]

one thing to be aware of when fitting Wilwoods: your pedal effort will increase or decrease, depending on the caliper you select, but it likely won't be identical. There's threads about this here on the forum but the Wilwood calipers' pistons came in diameters that were either a little too small, or a little too large. IIR, the original parts list called for the "a little to small" variety; at least one member fitted the "a little too large" version. Smaug's are the small ones; the car stops, hard, but only when you really push hard on the pedal. To me, this is preferable because it makes it easy to modulate lockup. But you will notice the difference. The other thing to be aware of: the originally-spec'd Wilwood calipers have no rubber seals on the pistons, so you'll be wanting to pull off the wheels, pull the pads and clean the assembly more frequently than with the stock ones.

[Fredjohn]

I'll look at my calipers when I get home to see what Wilwood part no. they are and if they have seals/dust seals fitted.

Memory says it's a different no. to the one in wikilec, but then I can't remember what day it was........

PS if you really want to be different why not fit the AP kit. There are less than a handful of people have them!

[Geordie]

I'll look at my calipers when I get home to see what Wilwood part no. they are and if they have seals/dust seals fitted.

Memory says it's a different no. to the one in wikilec, but then I can't remember what day it was........

PS if you really want to be different why not fit the AP kit. There are less than a handful of people have them!

Can’t find out much about them ,or where to get them from ?