elan scan drivers

[chrism]

Aw...not fair... Got any room for refuge in that oily greasy garage of yours?

Perhaps there will be a usbc male -> serial adapter...

[RonR]

Hate to disappoint you Dave (and Chris), but USB-C is just a physical cable specification.
The USB2 or USB3 signals are still used on the new type cable, and the windows drivers will be the same.

[chrism]

Ah so usbc is just the latest progression from usb3? Okay thanks for that RonR.
I've ordered the usb -> serial adapter (change out of a fiver ) so let's see if going serial will enable data acquisition in win11.

Item Description:-
Allow you to connects a PC without serial port to a serial device as it adds a DB9 port to a laptop or desktop via USB port.
Offering an easy connectivity for serial plug devices.
Built with FTDI Chipset. Supports Windows 10, 8, 7, Mac OS8 or higher, Linux 2.4.0 and later.
It is designed with a high performance quality processor chip (FTDI Chipset).
Cable Length: 25cm.

Package Includes:
1 x Db9 female to usb 2.0 female cable

ps I wonder why there's no claim to support win11? Perhaps the ad needs updating. Anyway if it doesn't it might make ES acquire data w/out that systematic complaint...

[RonR]

Chris, I don't think that device will help you unless you have one of the early ElanScan cables with the DB9 plug instead of the USB plug - The USB ones have the FTDI USB-to-Serial adapter built in.

Further Update:
Tried exactly the same as previous attempts but this time with Windows 10 20H2 in a VM.
Added a registry tweak to allow windows to update to 20H2 and no further.
Came back with the same results - attached as a USB3 device - no worky, but as a USB2 - works fine!
Next up - Windows 10 22H2!

[chrism]

...well it'll scratch an itch...but I can see that what you're saying is that I'll have already gone serial via the cable and have nothing further to gain.

For info, I'm getting win10 acquiring on usb2 and usb3 on the win10 ssd. It's updated itself to v22H2 from v1809 and I'm not doing any jiggery-pokey with VM and reg tweaks, and still acquiring data.

(Hmmm...but I'm wondering why isn't ES acquiring on usb2 or usb3 when I use win11 v22H2 on a different ssd that's been updated from win10 v22H2 (cos my old Lenovo x230 is too 'legacy' to qualify to update into win 11(?) - despite 'ComputerActive recommended workarounds - is the puzzle to solve...the lead doesn't flash...it's as if there's a knot in the ALDL lead or a break in the circuit...I wonder if win11 is somehow corrupting or denaturing the FTDI drivers?)

[RonR]

Hi Chris and/or Dave,

I may have stumbled across something...
I've tried this on Windows 10 22H2 but I don't have a Windows 11 machine to test on, could you try something for me please?

Plug your ES cable into a USB3 port and make the following settings changes on the USB serial port advanced settings:

USB Transfer Sizes:
Receive (Bytes): 64
Transmit (Bytes): 64
Latency Timer (msec): 32

Plug into your ECU, start up ElanScan and see if you get any data back (Fingers crossed...)

[chrism]

ecu6.zip

Screenshot (16)a.jpg

Yes you've done it, I think, RonR !!!

ES in win11 didn't like to talk - see attached file but I was able to get data acquisition and I think I've sent the zip file of a few mins in the garage. I'll take it out for a run soon and get a better file but I reckon that you ought to be very smug

Those parameters you changed to the lowest levels were huge in win11...Now spill the beans and explain your success, please...

[RonR]

Glad we're starting to see some positive results!

The thinking behind those changes:

1. The largest data packets we send or receive with ES are approximately - Send ~12 Bytes, Receive -70 Bytes, so if we make the USB transfer sizes close to these we'll introduce less latency.
2. The extra processing of the USB3 driver probably adds it's own latency when stepping down to USB2, so we should allow for that in our latency settings.

It's not quite as good a result as using a USB2 port in a VM as there are still some packets missed, but it's better than nothing!

[chrism]

So, those huge numbers were big spaces for data packets that didn't need to be so big - and bigger packet/spaces induce latency which ES was 'stumbling' over? (because due to its legacy of age the data packet size was expected to be much smaller?)

I've got both usb2 and usb3 sockets on my l/top does this mean I'll get less stumbling if I use usb2, or will the latency not be reduced further because of the changes in the usb serial port advanced settings?

KenR, I'm still grateful that I can consider running ES when I have to replace this x230 with a win11-only compliant version and I'm sure lots of our LEC muckers will be/are too...brill...

Now I'm going to see if I can set up a win 10 VM running on usb2 (only?) in my 22H2 win11 and see how that compares with the data acquisition you've enabled by your recent magic...

ps I suppose all this is like to fitting Lewis Hamilton's engine to a Moggy-Minor

[RonR]

Chris, If you're going down the VM route please use VMWare Player - It's free for non-commercial use and it allows you to attach USB devices to Virtual Machines as USB2 or USB3.
If you can download 7Gb or so I could let you have a copy of my Windows 7 VM with all updates, drivers and Elanscan pre-loaded. Will probably save you hours of mucking about.

[chrism]

VMWare player sounds like a good option RonR.

I've done 'virtual' back in the days of win7. I remember I needed it to play a Beatles disc that had all their albums on and I think it must have been an Ms initiative. I vaguely remember that the 64-bit change(?) put the cork back in that bottle I didn't know of any alternatives and then other options prevailed...

Yes please, any help would be gratefully accepted. Although I have a cert copy of win7 that I could use (it wouldn't need the updates for this exercise would it?) your win7 VM would save me some 'faff' so's I could concentrate on the ES aspect. I suppose I ought to be able to download win7 (certainly can space-wise) but if I send a blank cd, SD or a dongle would that help? Of course I'd reimburse your postage...

I kept your address after those fab dual chip communications but I had a recent computer crash and so if you want to go down that particular software route you'd have to pm me your address - but I'm more than happy to download if that's most convenient

That 7gb file is only the size of a pic, isn't it, and I suppose it can be 'zip-filed' if it's likely to drags its heels?

[chrism]

Hi RonR I've downloaded VMWorkstation17 and I've had a thought. Which is the best way to go? Trying to VM win10 22H2 64-bit or win7 32-bit?

Is there any point in duplicating your successful win10 64-bit latency progress with the complexity of VM? A win10 VM might be unnecessary, since we're now fairly certain that ES will acquire in win11 with your latency improvement.

Is it worth looking at win7 32-bit to try to improve the 'talking' dilemma or should we be comfortable to merely put up with it and put it down to 'necessary progress'?

Win7 32-bit was around at ES 's birth and might suit the ES latency better - so I reckon it might be worth a VM try? BUT I'm thinking would ES need to be downloaded from within the win7 VM? cos it'd need to include those (unsupported now) updates to get onto the 'net which I've found inhibits the download... I've got a feeling it might, which brings us back to your win7 + ES VM package. I reckon it'll only be worth trying if it's 32-bit - and only then to see if the 'talking' issue can be improved?

Wotcha reckon? Is your win10 64-bit latency fix enough of a solution or would it be more 'complete' to look at a win7 32-bit VM attempt to try to improve the talking issue?

EDIT: Ah...sorry this was lost on me: "Installed VMWare Player on my Windows 10 Laptop, then installed Windows 7 in a VM and let almost 200 updates run through."
I reckon that from this point on that we don't need VM due to the RonR latency upgrade unless it can can be shown improve the talking issue How about that?

I think I should try duplicating your win7VM in win11 to see if it'll update and download successfully - since I haven't got it to do this...

[chrism]

Update again:
I've now got my own win7 32-bit in VM working within my win11 cloned l/top
I've downloaded SP1 and managed to get Chrome as a browser so's I can get onto the 'net from within the win7 VM to download ES into win7 VM
So I've answered my own questions so far...
Next I'll look for an ES download then try it out on the car to see if it this method gets rid of the talking problem - but I'm gonna stop and get a cuppa first cos my 'ead's abart to xpload...

ps We have a choice of win7 or win7 64-bit. 'win7' (alone) is the 32-bit version I think I needed to try.

later edit: the win7 VM loads ok and works to process yesterday's ecu data. I haven't got the car here so I can't yet see if it will acquire any better than in the 'straight' win11 RonR latency mod. Curiously when I loaded yesterday's win11 ecu data into todays win7 VM it didn't list the talking errors in the rh pane so I'm hoping this might indicate a 'cure' - we'll see when I can strap it to the car.

So a step forward but also a step backward because as RonR has pointed out any external data or file that you try to input into the win7 VM has to be via a usb2 port. Win7 VM doesn't recognise a usb3 port and the VM prog tells you that usb3 won't 'play nicely..' I loaded ES in win7 VM via a donglebut I suspect there's no reason that win7 can't load ES via it's own i/net so I'll try this next... ANSWER: Yes it will

[RonR]

Hi Chris,
Good to see you're making progress.

The reason I used Windows7 32-bit was to try to minimise the VM disk and memory sizes, added to that ES is a 32-bit program so doesn't need a full 64-bit OS.
If you installed Win7 in the VM using VMWare's auto-install procedure there's a tweak you have to make in the Virtual Machine's definition file in order to allow USB devices to be connected, the option "Greys out" the USB icons - Edit the *vmname*.vmx file in the "Documents\Virtual Machines\*vmname*" folder and delete the line:

Code: Select all

usb.restrictions.defaultAllow = “FALSE”

You should then be able to attach the Windows 11 USB ES Cable to the VM, and use it as a USB2 with ElanScan (after installing the FTDI driver in the VM and changing the Latency to 1).

P.S. If you install VMWare tools you can copy + paste files between explorers on your Win11 laptop and the Win7 VM.

Bonne Chance!

[chrism]

RonR subject to acquisition facility (which I'll find out tomorrow when the car's back) the win7 VM is doing everything w/out your tweaks. Yep, I used the auto-install process and I didn't load any FTDI drivers...I think the latency was 1 and I didn't change it.

I noticed that your receive + transmit 64 byte values in win11 were both 16 in win7 VM so lower values seem 'best'? Let's see if acquisition doesn't throw up any silly 'reply doesn't match' type of comment...cos it seems to in win11 - although I wouldn't know how to notice an improvement in any other way.

[chrism]

Sadly win7 VM hasn't worked within win11 22H2. There was no prom id, no red/green flashing lights, it was totally inert via both usb2 and usb3. No 'talking' + no 'logging'. ES was accessed from within win7 VM...but nothing...

I then came out of win7 and back into win11 which has it's own ES on the same l/top. Usb2 was just as inert but when I plugged into usb3 I got sparkly red/green flashes on the cable, it recognised my 1499 promid, 'talked' (albeit the same 'No frame start byte received/No frame' rubbish etc) and 'logged' in the usual way.

So far, this is what I've experienced:
1. ES will work in win11 (usb3 port only) but only with with RonR's upgrades (listed in an earlier post) and cope with the upgrades win11 offers as long as it's loaded into win10 first. I found that it won't work when introduced straight into win11 22H2
2. Presumably ES will acquire throughout win7 ->early win 10 1809 inc. I've only tested from win10 1809 but I think it's safe to assume this. I can't be sure but I think usb2 will work; usb3 might not, but someone else needs to verify this.
3. I seem to remember that ES wouldn't work when loaded straight into win10 22H2, but did when I loaded my earliest version win10 1809 which then updated to win10 22H2 then win11 22H2 (which now works okay...)
4. RonR was doing a win10 pre-22H2 'recce', I think, and may have a comment - but my win10 1809 was my entry-level to win10 and it 'acquired'/logged okay.
5. In my win11 the win7 VM would accept DVD and usb2 dongle input but not any form of usb-cabled ES input. - But RonR got win7 to work okay in a win10 VM

Next I suppose I could try my new usb -> serial converter with win7 VM, since that was the only method of input when ES was 'born'?

Edit: I've just had a thought - perhaps win7 VR needed me to tell it I was using a usb port. ES recognised comm1 but I found earlier that win7 needed to be told that data was coming in via usb wheras it was happy with DVD so I'll try this tomorrow - since I'm likely to disturb the neighbours at this time

[chrism]

Yess! I think win7 VM is finally making ES acquire from within my win11 22H2 ssd.

Yes, as I thought, I had to tell win7 VM to look for a usb socket to connect to the ES cable cos win7 wasn't designed around usb 'in the day' - this is why yesterday's stuff didn't work.

When win7 VW was pointed at ES it protested that it had no FTDI drivers - it needed FT232R usb drivers. It offered to find them via win update, but when I tried it couldn't, so I got onto the FDTI w/site and found that there were two loads of early FDTI 32/64-bit drivers - one for win7 - win10 and another from win10 - win11. This later set must be from v22H2 onwards, I presume...anyway I took a chance on the earlier drivers and downloaded them within win7 VR

Win 7 VM now acquires from within the win11 platform, again with the 'No frame start byte received/No frame' rubbish but it 'talked' and 'logged' in both usb2 and (interestingly) usb3 sockets. I was able to save the ecu data from both ports and open it again in win7 VM's ES to scrutinize it.

So yes...lot's of faff to make win7 VM work. ES acquisition isn't any better tho' imo...

I hope this helps anyone who's ES has 'switched the lights off' - but let's hope usb3's successor is equally backward-compatible in the new machines.

I think I'll stick to my win11 update from early win10 for the moment tho' - sorry Ron

[RonR]

Hi Chris,

Did you go into the settings for the VM and set the USB controller to USB2? I think it defaults to USB3, which we know causes problems.
That's the way I got ES to talk without drops or error messages:

USB Settings.jpg

[chrism]

Hi Ron.
Yep, just found this setting and checked.

Mine already seemed to have defaulted to usb2. It's a mystery that it works on usb3 as well; perhaps the FTDI drivers that I loaded were an update that included usb3 as well.

Anyway, a bit of gobbledegook seems a small penalty to pay to keep the ES flame burning in win11. Perhaps it can be further 'tuned out'...

[RonR]

Hi Chris,

I think the Win7 VM works without the tweaks because the Win7 O/S thinks it's talking to a USB2 port. I suspect there's some incompatibility between the USB3 and USB2 drivers which means they don't work well together when talking directly, as I see problems whenever I have that sequence of drivers. VMWare is sitting between the Win7 VM and the real USB3 port and translating between them.

The sequence which works - Inside the VM: ElanScan - Virtual Comm Port - USB2 Driver - Outside the VM: VMWare USB2 port emulation - USB3 Driver - USB3 Port.