Cam belt kit and oil

[Mxer125]

Hello everyone.

I'm new to M100's and need advice on complete service kit and best place to source these parts

I'm reading Rockauto for competitive pricing but I'm pretty sure everything ships from US ?? And the site is a nightmare to navigate lol.. I'm also paranoid of ordering the wrong water pump (round tooth etc).

Also I'd like to do an oil change and plug n filters etc.

Could someone help me with what grade oil I should be purchasing and plugs used, part numbers would be great..

Basically the car has sat for many years and I want to replace these parts before I go any further..

Currently while I'm researching service kit parts I'm stripping the interior floor as it's rather damp, thankfully not too much rust.. 10mm closed form foam on order.

Thanks in advance, and thank you

[dapinky]

Hello and welcome.... just so you don't think you're going mad, I have deleted your other post which was a near duplicate of this one, but wouldn't have shown up as it hadn't been approved (all first posts need approval before being viewable to try and stop spam).

Anyway, there are no 'quick and simple' answers to your question..... and even no single correct answer. Lets start with what should be the "simple" things.... oil and spark plugs.

I recently fitted a set of Denso iridium sparkplugs to my project car - part number 5304 - I didn't pay that, because I got them from Rockauto for a fiver each..... there are a set on Ebay for £18, which looks great, except the advert doesn't fill me with confidence as it says they can be collected from Leeds, but will take 7-10 days for postage from Hong Kong..... either way, they are a great plug that will last the lifetime of the car. If you don't want them to be "that good" there are plenty of cross referenced items for a few quid less, however, they are not really considered to be a 'service item' and are replaced when required more than at a set time/distance (but as an unknown quantity on an unknown car, it makes sense to do them - that's what I did!).

Okay, so on to oil Everyone asks the question, and everyone then gets 99 different answers - none of them are wrong!!!!

The book says to use whatever was about 30+ years ago, oil companies will tell you to use whatever they think the average Elan will need 30+ years later, and the truth is somewhere in the middle. Basically, it all depends on the state of your engine NOW, not what it was like when it left the factory. If it has been maintained with regular oil changes and not run ridiculously hot, then I would suggest using a standard 5w30 synthetic on anything under 100K miles, but going slightly thicker if over that figure (10w40). I have 10w60 in my car but it is a little too thick really, so I dilute it with a thinner oil to get a blend resulting in 7.5w50. Of course, this is all guesswork until you fire up the engine, so in your case I'd suggest a gallon of 5w30 or 10w40 (even going semi-synthetic) and see how it runs - then chose another viscosity based on how it works for you, and change it in a few months time (or use). Any clean oil now will be better than the "right" oil 2 years ago. I chucked a gallon of cheap 10w40 Mannol oil in mine to get it going, and it was nearly a year ago (but no real use), so will be changed for a decent fully synthetic oil this year. It works fine!

For the engine, I always use Rockauto for parts which are 'service' items..... ordering from them is easy and quick (delivery). Bear in mind that they have multiple warehouses, and not everything ships from the same location...... so there may be a choice of 4 water pumps, but the cheapest one may have a separate delivery charge to the cam belt, so it may be cheaper overall to get a more expensive water pump from the same warehouse so it all arrives in one box.

I'm sure that your next question may be "is there a standard shopping list?" - and the answer is no! - basically, their inventory changes frequently, so what is listed today may or may not be available in 3 months time - but they may have something else. There are a whole host of things they sell which fit the elan (rear brakes/pads are from an Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme), and also a lot of stuff they list for the Isuzu Impulse Turbo which is the same as used in the Elan....but not everything is the same (like alternator belts).

In your case, I appreciate that changing the cambelt is an obvious first thought, but if the car's history is unknown, then I would also change the tensioner and idler whilst I'm there (and, obviously, the water pump).... whilst the pulleys are not a 'service item' they will wear with age and use. My philosophy is to change them with the first belt I fit on an unknow car, then after that, just do the belt & pump every 5-6 years.

Having a quick look at todays offerings from Rocks, I tried adding and subtracting various combinations of items, and ended up with the following "best value" shopping list....... note, it is possible to add a set of rear brake pads for a tenner, but it increases the total by £25 due to the heavier parcel for shipping! - still a bargain if you want some, as they are cheap as chips in USA, but only 3 makes were ever submitted for EU "E" marking, so they can't be sold in the UK for road use (but are legal to buy from outside the UK, and fit to a UK car!).

Things like ignition coils are a tenner each, an alternator is about £61, a clutch kit is £138 (for the right one - make sure it is 8 7/8" diameter, as some are smaller, but will still fit the Elan.... won't last as long though)........ so it can save a huge chunk of cash by buying from a 'different' supplier than from a "UK Lotus Specialist". (and you'll probably get the exact same items in your parcel).

cambelt cart.png

cam belt shipping.png

Always remember to choose a 'shipping option' which includes the VAT and any duty payments included, otherwise (if you get caught for it) it will delay your parcel at East Midlands airport until you pay the fees via Royal Mail, who will also add on a £12 "Admin Charge"......

.... there is usually a 5% discount code online which you add in the "Where did you hear about us" box.....

.....and although you can pay with PayPal (and lots of other options), it is worth using a credit/debit card which doesn't charge a foreign transaction fee and make the payment in dollars. I use a Starling Debit Account (free to set up and very easy to use in UK and abroad), and it would save $6 using their exchange rates rather than PayPals today.

[Mxer125]

Wow! Thanks Dave ...

Unfortunately tho I need something pretty quickly like next day so unfortunately this time round I'm going to have to pay the Lotus Tax...

Trouble is first company I rang I asked about the square belt round pump scenario..

That stumped them because he said and checked and reported back with "we have a round belt profile with a square pump profile so said he'd have to check with the workshop but assured me they have sold over 20 kits with no problems???. So do I order or not lol..

So I'm unsure where or what to order now.. anyways a fantastic write up and a wealth of information for me to go through tonight I can't thank you enough for taking the time to reply, it goes along way.. Thank you!!

[Simon_P]

Square tooth profile on belt cams, crank pulley and water pump are SOHC engine.

Round tooth is DOHC engine.

This shouldn't even be a question look at any cambelt kit for any car and the teeth on the belt will match the teeth on the water pump.

[dapinky]

Yep, it is a simple case of "wrong part supplied" - possibly due to error in packing or picking at the warehouse, but more likely by incorrectly ordering the item without knowing the difference, and not looking at the correct manufacturers application list.

As an example, looking at the GMB water pumps (purely because those were the first ones I looked at, but other makes are the same!), the one for the DOHC engines are part number 1401320, whilst the SOHC engine uses 1401330.....

At first glance they look the same, but as Simon states, one has the round teeth, and one has the square teeth..... and the wrong ones are significantly cheaper!!!

Now, the cynic in me may say that the wrong ones give a much higher profit, so may have been purchased thinking that "they will do", or it may be a genuine error - who knows?

Either way, the correct one is the only correct one (and it doesn't matter how many others they've sold without complaint - maybe the others were correct, maybe the buyer didn't notice or know what they were buying.)

SOHC.png

DOHC.png

.... and it isn't a case of fit the other belt, as it is the wrong length (and the teeth on the tensioner/idler and bottom pulley will be wrong!)

[Tuga2112]

but assured me they have sold over 20 kits with no problems???. So do I order or not lol..

i do not trust a sale of 20 kits to mean anything. you need to actually use it, for the "square peg into a round hole" to actually damage the "peg".... the majority of M100s out there are garage queens.

As Dave mentioned. you can swap the pulley from one pump to another... but you can also just leave the old pump in after you take it out and confirm its got minimal wear.. my experience from removing 2 from the yellow car is that they were looking pretty good on the inside and as far as the pulley bearings, there was zero play.... but i still replaced them anyway just because i got mine from rockauto and i rather be safe than sorry for an extra 15 quid.

if your in the northeast, you can have one of my spare kits (i got 2 on the shelf ready for my projects) under the condition you wont be leaving without ordering a replacement delivered to me. however my Dayco water pumps are not a perfect fit, when i installed the first one, i needed to enlarge the holes in the pump in order to line up with the engine. (im still unsure how that happened) but its fitted and theres no leaks. so im happy with it.

as far as getting something delivered tomorow... i find that unlikely. I Have received packages from rockauto quicker than stuff from SJ and PMN in the past.. their postage may not give you great expectations. but i have been positively surprised by the expedience every time... and that includes parts for 5 different cars over the past 9 years.

[Mxer125]

Hi Tuga.. that's pretty dam good of you sir. Wow..

If you wouldn't mind could I just pay you to make an order I don't trust myself to order the right bits yet? I'm really getting quite lost on Rockauto lol..

However I'm guessing I just use Dave's part numbers (thanks Dave) ...

I can't thank you enough tho for such a kind offer really really good of you..

I can PayPal friends or do bank transfer no problem. Or if you prefer I could possibly navigate myself through Rockauto and place an order with a screenshot so you are happy?. But I will really be buying blind lol..

It's up to you I can do whatever I'm just bowled over by your generosity..

Thank you. And let me know so we can get my 11 years none started 41k m100 running as soon as I can .. I just want to here this thing..

Thank you

[Mxer125]

Tuga! Lol.. I subscribed last night. Fantastic videos.. wow I feel a bit star struck lol.. wow. Lol. Thanks for the help. Amazing of you..

[Simon_P]

Oil 5/30 to start with 10/30 if it is tappety after you have run it for a couple of hours. It'll sound bloody awful the first time you start it.
Glycol coolant (the blue stuff) not OAT
At 25% concentration. And buy enough to change it after a couple of months as the corrosion inhibitors will be used up.

The water pump and bearings are both life. components ie the service schedule doesn't require them to be changed.

[Mxer125]

Thanks Simon, great advice thank you.. mines sat in a field for 11 years so I'm replacing everything while I'm there.. thanks again

[Tuga2112]

The water pump and bearings are both life. components ie the service schedule doesn't require them to be changed.

worth noting that the definition of "life" in automotive industry is "for as long as we expect these to be on the road"

and if you look at the original booklets for the elan, put a stamp per year for each regular yearly maintenance.. you would have been short of multiple pages now even for the last S2 that rolled out of the factory.

[Mxer125]

Sorry Tuga, got excited there. (Collection only) ..

Ok I've placed a rock order for paid DHL £34 for 4th April. Let's see what happens lol..

Only thing puts me off is the continental belt (warehouse sell out £6) seems cheap and reading gates would be better?. I'm not fussed as long as it fits..

Thanks all I'll keep you posted. Dave especially for the part numbers (how you find them is beyond me)

Oh one more thing if anyone has a thermostat and some fir clips for the trim I'm happy to pay what's needed.

Thanks again all

[dapinky]

With regard to the 'life' of the water pump, I am of the opinion that it is a lot of hassle to get to it, except if you're there anyway, then I may as well change it. It is cheap enough to not worry about the part cost, but the hassle of replacing one is far bigger!

Admittedly, they should last far longer than the 6 years between belts, and I'm sure that a 30+ year old item may need a change, whilst a 10 year old one probably doesn't. Most of the 'original' ones I've removed are past their best (but I've never had one fail, either), and all of the others are still in good nick. It is similar to the pulleys, and an 'unknown' one is worth swapping for peace of mind (but this is only my way, not necessarily the only way!!!!!).

If you haven't yet submitted the RA order, then thermostats are in stock there..... but if you have, then they are not too expensive anyway. It is a fairly 'standard' item, but make sure you get one with the 'wiggle pin' (which is fitted uppermost in the housing), and the right temperature (82C). It is the same item as used in Classic Minis, and various other BL stuff from Rover/MG/Triump etc...... eg, this sort - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352875590126

You should be able to get one from virtually any motor factors locally, or cheap as chips on ebay. Make sure that if you buy one specifically for a Mini, that it also has the correct gasket for the Elan (2 bolt holes) in the box - the Mini uses a 3-bolt housing.

[Tuga2112]

dont forget the 5% discount code. RA always has one going on

[Simon_P]

worth noting that the definition of "life" in automotive industry is "for as long as we expect these to be on the road"

No Jaoa it isn't - Components are extensively tested and the statistical likelihood of failure (Bx Life) is calculated. The endurance tests are designed to cover a range of operating conditions from say the number of "idiot starts" to to 100k miles of driving. Bx life is calculated x is the % of failures at life B so for a Cam belt this is say 10 years in storage and 6years of use with no failures. 10 years is controlled by the warehouse and a service life of 6 years by maintenance B=6 x=0 as you go beyond this the likelihood of failure increases.

Looking at the waterpump - People expect not to have to pay for replacing components at service - they haven't done for 50 years. so the expectation is that the water pump wont need replacing. the endurance test is say 100k miles and the component passes the endurance test without failure or significant degradation - that doesn't mean it it is designed for the life of the vehicle, it means that after extensive testing it was still in good condition - there is no value in further testing and no value in designing the component to last longer than the test.

OEM's use the Bx life to calculate the likely warranty claims and use this analysis to insure against them, with the failed component given back to the manufacturer for analysis.

That's why oem components are more expensive and last longer - your cheap aftermarket water pump has not undergone vehicle testing and has a much lower design life. I've said loads of times that the original part that people are taking out is probably better than the new one they are replacing it with - if it aint broke don't fix it. Changing water pumps at service is a 1960s mindset they should be changed on condition if it doesn't leak and the bearing is good it is ok.

[Simon_P]

If you haven't yet submitted the RA order, then thermostats are in stock there..... but if you have, then they are not too expensive anyway. It is a fairly 'standard' item, but make sure you get one with the 'wiggle pin' (which is fitted uppermost in the housing), and the right temperature (82C). It is the same item as used in Classic Minis, and various other BL stuff from Rover/MG/Triump etc...... eg, this sort - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352875590126

Sorry to disagree dapinky
High flow offset elan thermostat on the left and mini thermostat on the right. Of course the mini one will work but lots of people get uptight about cooling.

Thermostat.JPG

Let me know if you need one.

[dapinky]

Simon,

The one I linked to is a high flow one with the jiggle pin.... not the one in your picture, hence why I mentioned it.

[Simon_P]

Sure - point being a standard Mini thermostat even with the jiggle pin is low flow without the offset.

[Mxer125]

Excellent thanks guys.. interesting regarding thermostat.. yes I do need one? Anything on the clips I know SJ do them at 69p but postage will probably be £10 is there anything on eBay?..

Also I searched for a rock code but unfortunately I couldn't find anything.. anyways £114 is fair although 60% if it is shipping and tax lol.. will see when it gets here. I'm quite confident it'll be ok..

Cheers

[Simon_P]

Anything on the clips

which clips?