ALL ELANS ON GUMTREE / CAR & CLASSIC

[simonbuk]

And probably one of the lowest mileage ones out there ? (What a waste )

And it's an S3

https://www.carandclassic.com/l/C1706415

[Hector2021]

And probably one of the lowest mileage ones out there ? (What a waste )

And it's an S3

https://www.carandclassic.com/l/C1706415

Quite lovely indeed, but there's an issue with trying to sell a car in such good condition and with such a low mileage and a top end price tag to suit. Would the new owner dare to actually use it, add to the mileage and subsequently de-value it?
This one is probably up now for the same price paid for it when new.

[Dave Eds]

S3s will always demand top dollar......rarity value!

[simonbuk]

And look - a 'glistening unicorn'.......

https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1708411

[Karozza]

And look - a 'glistening unicorn'.......

https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1708411

Very beautiful indeed.

[Karozza]

This looks like good value...

https://www.carandclassic.com/l/C1708276

[TrevorK]

There's a lot of those S3s around!

[Tuga2112]

There's a lot of those S3s around!

in their defence, there was a S2 back in the 70s. so the newer model could be interpreted as the 3rd series of elans.

[Fredjohn]

There's a lot of those S3s around!

in their defence, there was a S2 back in the 70s. so the newer model could be interpreted as the 3rd series of elans.

Unfortunately not quite right. The 60s S2 Elan was followed by an S3, then an S4 (mine), then finally the Sprint. So our M100s could be S5 and S6, or S6 and S7 if you consider the Sprint the S5.

But SE, and NA, followed by S2, but no S1 M100? Beats me......

[dapinky]

It's a bit like Regnal Names in English (and now British) monarchy......

..... at the time that a name is first used, it is on it's own. Eg, King Charles 1 was known simply as King Charles until his death, and only when Charles 2 became king, was his father referred to as Charles 1.

Few remain un-numbered, the most recent (and probably best known) is Queen Victoria - she will always be simply that until any such times as another Regnal queen decides to use the name, and becomes Queen Victoria 2nd, and then Victoria will become titled as Vicky 1. (There are actually many others, but although a few of us were sad gits and learned every sovereign in order whilst at school, not everyone does.).

So, the first Elan (1960's) was simply known as the Elan until the S2 was released, and then it was referred to as the S1 purely to be able to differentiate between them, and then the s3,
& s4. It was at that point that it got somewhat skewed, as when released, the Sprint was known as the "S4 Sprint", but many just called it the 'Sprint' and it was deemed to be a new series (although it was an S4 in body/interior/suspension, and only really the power train was changed to cope with the Big Valve engine). I think that had the whole car changed, it would have been an S5, but it was only the engine, so it stayed as an S4 (the "SE" designation was already in use for the S4).

John, this isn't aimed at you as you know as much (or more) than I do about the early Elan iterations! (and we are ignoring the +2 completely!).

The 'series' numbering doesn't even compare (completely) to the "Type Number" as the early cars were Type 26, and were all DHC, then T36 was FHC, but only appeared from S3 onwards (and T45 was a DHC which replaced T26) - T26R was the racing version..... but all were Elans.

With the M100, all of them are still M100 whatever their age, and SE/NA/FED cars *should* all be known as S1's - but whenever anyone does that, they seem to be called out on it - - even though we all know what they mean!

[Tuga2112]

you point is taken, no excuses to call it an S3.

but im going to call mine a S3.
the m100 S3 version is the best of them all.
its got integrated 3rd brake light in the spoiler, closed loop (without cat) performance, uprated header A post and window rubber seals as well as the upgraded rear hubs with separated disks that make it a lot cheaper to replace the rear disks.

it also comes with a leaky fuel tank, and at present a knocking noise that is likely worn driveshaft related

a trully one of a kind M100

[Graaf]

And look - a 'glistening unicorn'.......

https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1708411

Got to love the comedy pricing!

[MPx]

Compared to an Escort Mexico at twice the price its a veritable bargain. Never really sure about these time warp cars though - all the rubbers, seals, etc are still over 30 years old so will have gone hard and unlikely to do their job if the car is used at all. Great if you just want a garage queen though.

[Graaf]

Compared to an Escort Mexico at twice the price its a veritable bargain. Never really sure about these time warp cars though - all the rubbers, seals, etc are still over 30 years old so will have gone hard and unlikely to do their job if the car is used at all. Great if you just want a garage queen though.

Most certainly agree about the prices for fast fords and think that the m100 is by far the better car but they are just not loved as much sadly

[simonbuk]

Here's an interesting one about to be put to auction for anyone on the lookout:

https://www.carandclassic.com/auctions/ ... rbo-4mMjP4

So that SE made 10.5K a couple of years ago and this S2 made 7.5K last month -


https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/199 ... -edition-1

Has the arse fallen out of classic cars or just ours ??

[Tuga2112]

The classic car hype is nostalgia driven. One noticed there's a fair bit of "my dad had this car when I was a kid"
Don't think lotus really marketed they're cars in the 90s to dads... Reason why the Ford crowd is a lot more prominent.
There's also the fact that after 2000 with the internet being far more accessible people's interests spread and less folk was interested in cars overall.

I suspect the classic car scene had it's last hurrah with the 90s cars, and that's already a muffled shout with the fuel crisis, environmental concerns and crash safety changes that started back then.

There's more cars left than there's people interested in them. And with the constant economic problems popping out. No one sensible will buy an old car that is a financial drain.

There's was a raise in value after the lockdown because people started to think "I made it alive, better do some living before something else gets me" but that phased out rather quickly.

Obviously this just an opinion. I certainly would like to be wrong. But I've recently joined a classic car restoration club with over 300 members. And the average member age it's older than my dad... I think that speaks a lot by itself.

[Fredjohn]

Whilst Tuga2112 tboughts are very valid, there are other factors.

The condition of the individual vehicles and the skill and knowledge of the buyer are relevant. A naïve buyer will be unaware of what potentially lies ahead, and may pay well over the odds for a car that needs a lot of work. And SE vs S2 shouldn't make a difference, but it does!

Looking at ads for the M100, asking prices seem to vary from £7k to £25k, reflecting the value/condition perceived by the seller. So I don't think a massive slump is happening just yet. Known selling prices, however, are difficult to obtain unless from auctions.

My comments relate to the UK market, rather than the ROW.

[dapinky]

Joao and John are both correct - and I'll add on a bit more (purely opinion, from my own perspective).

I don't know why some people value the S2 far higher than an SE (or NA) - any age-related issues are equalled out by the passing of the years, so it leaves the actual 'differences' between the two to consider..... yes, the S2 has nicer wheels!... it has galvanised rear suspension arms and an improved design of the upper link.... it has a better design of rain channel in the soft-top...... it comes in a larger variety of colours.

BUT

It has weaker plastic trim pieces around the hood...... it has a catalytic converter & pre-cat (ignoring the 10BHP loss, I was actually thinking of the extra complexity/costs)..... it has an alarm system which (if still fitted) is of an age that it can leave you stranded....... if you lock your keys in the boot, you're a bit stuffed.

So, there are a load of other differences, but not all are improvements. Many of the well-maintained S1 cars have has the later parts retro-fitted (suspension, maybe wheels, hood etc as part of ongoing upkeep). The later S1 cars had the improved seats that you find in the S2 (well, nearly the same) and the extra colours are irrelevant when many cars have had or need a repaint anyway.

So, I always advocate to get the 'best' you can find for your budget (or requirements) - and don't fixate on age, colour or mileage....... but some people find those things important, so who am I to dictate?

We have all seen people who want to buy a "low mileage S2 in yellow with magnolia leather"..... and such a car will ALWAYS find a new home quickly, whilst a Pacific blue SE with half-leather and 100K miles will be seen as a 'worse' car to own, and command a much lower asking price.

To me, that's really odd - as the SE may have had money spent (or may not), so has a value that needs consideration. Just the information given will offer no clue as to a fair price - and even photos don't help much.

Anyway, my real point is this:-

I know of a few dozen really, really great elans out there, and any one of them would be a good car to buy..... but that's the thing - NONE of them are for sale, or are ever really likely to be. They are the cars which have been in the same ownership for many years (often since new, or nearly new). They have been meticulously maintained, or restored (or both) by enthusiastic owners. Many have done the work themselves, some have paid out a small (or large) fortune over the years. I know what sort of number the owners put on the insurance valuations, and I also know that many could not be replaced for that price..... although it is very possible to buy another elan for that number..... if you find one of these, better grab it quick before someone else does (Yes, Mark, I'm looking at you )

Then we get the 'second-tier' of elans - those which have been bought, had money spent, and enjoyed by the owners for a long time. These are also great cars to buy - BUT come up for sale rarely. If they do come up for sale, they are often snapped up by someone who they know (we get them up for sale on this forum from time to time, and they don't hang around for long).

Next, we have the ones that were bought by someone who needs to scratch the itch of owning one - maybe a neighbour had one as they were growing up, or they played games on Amiga computers, or whatever - if they fall in love with the car, it will get elevated to the group above, but if not, after a year or two, it will be sold on when the reality overtakes the love. These are often good cars to buy as many such people lavish a sum of cash on the new purchase, which they don't get back when they sell it.

There are the 'constantly for sale' cars we see....... they appear of ebay (or somewhere else) and someone buys it, then a month later, it's back for sale at a higher price after it's had a wash, then it sells, the new owner realises it isn't that great and sells it again, and so it goes round..... these are where the danger lies for new owners - they could be worth anything between £2k and 10K - and the price ticket will be in the same range, BUT not necessarily correlate to each other.

Then, really occasionally, we get the "i don't know what I've got here" cars - you know, the real bargains...... often sold by a relative of an "estate sale". They have a tier 2 car (or even tier 1, except someone else will have snapped it up) which they offer for 'everyday car' money as that is what they're lead to believe it's worth.... and someone gets a bargain.

I have seen a fair few of these over the years, and always try to suggest them to people who are actively looking for a car - often it isn't the colour they want, or the model they desire, but it is nearly always the "best buy" they could make - and the rest can be changed.

IMO, it comes down to what you want - if you want to park in a field with a shiny car to show to other people, your requirements are different to someone who wants to blast round a race-track every weekend. If you want to do 2K mile tours round Europe you need a different car to someone who needs to commute 8K miles a year in all weathers.

I used to commute in mine, I have been on the European tours, I have done the track stuff, and even parked in a field to show it off - I KNOW that the car can do it all, and I know that the requirements change over time. The condition of the car now is vastly different to when i bought it, as it was changed for track use, changed again for constant road use, etc etc now it enjoys a cosy life inside a garage (it used to live outside at my old house when it was being used daily), and comes out when I want it to.

So, what is a car worth? don't ask me - I really don't know!

Okay, so I know how much all the parts cost to do a pretty total restoration (been there, done those)..... I know what a respray may cost (except they change all the time)...... I know how many hundreds of hours it adds up to...... I do it all myself, so have no labour costs to consider (except paint - I no longer have the facilities to spray complete cars)..... if I added up what i spent last year and paid myself £11/hr which is the 'living wage', I would have a far higher price than anyone would give me for the car I restored..... but that's okay, because it isn't for sale anyway! Even without adding in the labour, there are those who wouldn't see may car as being as "good" as the mythical "Yellow S2" - but I know which one I'd rather be sitting outside waiting for the trip to Europe, or down to the beach, or to the track.... and it will be able to do it for many years to come as all the effort has been expended already.

So, buy what you want, pay what you think is fair, and expect it to cost money/time afterwards to keep it up...... otherwise you end up with the lowest category of car :-

The 'just about kept going' banger - you now, the one which struggles through the MOT every year, needs bodywork, interior trim, and engine rebuild, replacement of parts etc etc (this is NOT just an Elan thing - it's every car out there!). They are unloved by everyone who owns them, but they won't sell it because they believe it's an "appreciating classic" worth £10K, and no-one will offer them more than £2k as a breaker.

(oh how I love to buy them for the 'breaker' price and then restore them because I'm some kind of stupid idiot - but there aren't that many of us left)

[Karozza]

https://www.carandclassic.com/l/C1769467

[chipp]

FYI
https://www.carandclassic.com/auctions/ ... car-n9wyX8