Rear brake solution

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Rear brake solution

Postby JethroGreenfinger » Mon 26.05.2025, 21:30

I love this massive data resource and I pride myself on not asking questions, because EVERYTHING is here. However, the optimum rear hub + rear brake calliper / disc solutions seems to have tantalising nods to various solutions, but no "in 2025" this is best :-)

I ready to do bearing, callipers need rebuilding and discs are old. I'd love to go Daewoo hub, Honda callipers and suitable discs, but despite several hours of trawling the knowledge base I can't find the usual comprehensive numbers.

I found BB's drawing for the hub machining. But is there a tech drawing of the Honda calliper mounting bracket? Which disc is best to use? Are the standard handbrake cables retained?

Please help, I know it's not a kit and will need some engineering, that's what's fun.
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Re: Rear brake solution

Postby dapinky » Tue 27.05.2025, 11:28

As far as I know, there is no "instruction set" for any complete solution. This is for various reasons, but the bottom line is that brakes are one of those things that need to be right.

As such, I believe that any of the above mentioned solutions work fine, but need to be considered and fettled by the fitter in each case - so they are only generally attempted by those who have a basic understanding and desire to get it done..... so it doesn't need a 'step-by-step' guide - a nod in the right direction should get a competent DIY mechanic into the right starting point, and it can be sorted from there.

For anyone else, I would say "go and buy the 'ready to fit' kit from PNM at their high price" - the price covers the research, development and liability costs which none of the "DIY" versions have.

That is my general disclaimer for "The massed public", but to try to guide you, I can offer the following:-

The solution using the Honda Civic callipers was designed by Jamie N, and I haven't heard any negative things about it.... but there is no 'simple' bracket design information available in general circulation..... it requires the bracket and a solution for the handbrake cables which he will either provide, or supply information on, as he wishes. (or you can DIY with the right skills).

This uses the 'standard' disc/hub units - or will work with the separate "Bob Brown" hubs/discs, or the Daewoo hub/discs, or the Astra hub/discs (as they all use the original fitting points).

The Daewoo hubs use the original upright spindles, so still have the separate bearings which will require the same maintenance as the Lotus parts

The Astra G hubs are 'sealed for life' units which require removal of the Lotus spindle and slight machining of the uprights to allow clearance for the unit to bolt to the original holes in the uprights - but will never need bearing maintenance during their life.

All of the above are a mix-and-match set of ideas - the Civic callipers are more modern than the OE ones, and are easy to get parts for in the UK and elsewhere.

OE callipers are good enough if they are correctly set up and then maintained - but if you don't want the hassle, then Civic ones could be considered to be "better".

Bear in mind that the rear brakes do not do a lot of actual work most of the time, so there is no need to go bigger....... but some people wish to do so, just for the aesthetics of the bigger units. Which needs consideration for whether the spare wheel will fit over them.

If your current rear brakes are not passing the MOT standard it could be either the calliper, the disc or the proportioning valve (if it's the hydraulic portion of the test), or the callipers/discs/pads mechanism if it is the cable-operation part of the test.

As for what is "best" - well, it is personal preference and belief!

On my car I have OE callipers (except they have been replaced with new Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme units), BB hubs, Astra disks (Apec DSK117), Centric ceramic pads, original handbrake cables, and fully adjustable proportioning valves.
On Angies car I have the same brakes, but the hubs are the Astra G sealed units, with Astra G discs.

However, before I found that there is still a reasonable supply of new callipers for £25 each at Rock Auto, I was all set to use the Honda Civic system, with the Astra G hubs/discs and have to do something with the cable system.

If and when the GM callipers become impossible to source (the rebuild parts are few and far between - well, the pistons are obsolete now anyway) that is the way I will go - but for now, the OE callipers, with good pads and adjustable prop valves seems the "best" for me. (even though there is some fettling to do to one side handbrake lever - but once done, it will then fit any other new GM calliper in the future).

I am yet to find anyone with a negative to say about the Civic system, and the PNM system seems to be developed to a state where it is now fit for purpose at the rear, whilst some people say that the GM system is "old design" and tends to be maintenance heavy. Certainly, the supply of OE rear pads in the UK is limited, but if you shop in USA they are plentiful, at a ridiculously cheap price (but can get dear when you add in the shipping/handling if that is all you are needing at the time).

The Astra G hubs and discs are cheapish and easily available in the UK (at the moment), and Honda calliper parts and pads are still easy to get - and likely to be for a good time due to the numbers of cars still using them on the UK roads.

All of the options are 'reversible' anyway should the need ever arise.

I know that SWL now have a supply of new OE disc/hub units which are machined correctly (unlike the ones I got from SJ's) should that be something that you wish to consider.
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it


...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Rear brake solution

Postby MPx » Tue 27.05.2025, 13:04

I've comparatively very limited experience/knowledge to share but FWIW:

I found the OE rears to be difficult to get through an MoT handbrake test. I wanted to upgrade the std fronts anyway so went for a full set, front and back through an early BB offer - so the rears had his bracket. Those rears were based on HiSpec units and had a serious design flaw in using the hydraulics for the handbrake. If you had your foot on the brake pedal when pulling on the lever, too much pressure could be applied to the calliper and several people found it blew out the seals. I never had that issue but I still had trouble passing the handbrake part of the MoT brake test. Eventually I decided to invest (AGAIN!!) and got the PNM set up based on the MkIV Golf rear brake. Mine was the first they supplied to go on the BB bracket so it took an extra iteration (I sent them up the whole hub set up on one side for them to see) and they were able to adapt the machining to fit so they can now supply to fit either the BB or OE set up - just specify. Its a simple bolt on upgrade so even within my capabilities, and works very well. No longer any issue for MoTs and works very well on track as well as for normal road driving.
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Re: Rear brake solution

Postby JethroGreenfinger » Wed 28.05.2025, 09:13

Thank you dapinky and MPx, I guessed it was a minefield, but that helps with a bit of a route through. I have a very generous MOT person, so I think sticking with the stock calipers for now, but going to Astra G hub and disc makes sense, until something else fails.

My only other question is - which generation of Civic and why Type R calipers, are they not all the same within a generation?

Thanks again, JG

P.S. I really enjoy your extensive progress on Angie's car, thanks.
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Re: Rear brake solution

Postby dapinky » Wed 28.05.2025, 10:24

Jeff,

I have sent you an email with a bit more info on the parts needed for the Astra G hub stuff.
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it


...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Rear brake solution

Postby Geordie » Wed 28.05.2025, 11:12

Hi Dave
Could you possibly send me same info on Astra rear hub setup
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Re: Rear brake solution

Postby dapinky » Wed 28.05.2025, 12:01

Geordie wrote:Hi Dave
Could you possibly send me same info on Astra rear hub setup
Cheers


Hi Geordie, I've forwarded the email I sent to Jeff to your email :D
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it


...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Rear brake solution

Postby woody » Wed 28.05.2025, 12:51

Hi Dave
Could you possibly send me same info on Astra rear hub setup as well please.
Cheers
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Re: Rear brake solution

Postby Tuga2112 » Thu 29.05.2025, 20:58

i just want to add a note to the already veru compreensive explanation from Dave.

as far as mix and matching stuff.
you can also. have the uprights machines for the astra hubs and still use the original hub and disk combo. so, having them machined wont stop you from reverting to original discs if you wish.
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Re: Rear brake solution

Postby Blaster » Sun 24.08.2025, 10:56

I have just fitted the Astra G hubs.

I have a workshop at home with a mill/drill so decided to modify the uprights my self. Unfortunately because of the interrupted cut and the main column of my mill can rotate it did while cutting. But it gave my a guideline to then use the endmill to finish the job. Cutting a circle by hand using X and Y is like drawing a circle with etch a sketch. all successful in the end and I now have quite rear wheel bearings.
Tony

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Re: Rear brake solution

Postby Blaster » Sun 24.08.2025, 11:01

While rebuilding the rear hubs I noticed the sliding pin rubber covers have split. The pins are in good condition.

Does anyone know where you can get the rubbers on there own?
Tony

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Re: Rear brake solution

Postby dapinky » Sun 24.08.2025, 12:52

Blaster wrote:While rebuilding the rear hubs I noticed the sliding pin rubber covers have split. The pins are in good condition.

Does anyone know where you can get the rubbers on there own?


Do you mean the rear calliper sliders?...... if so, I got mine from Rock Auto when I got some other stuff........ only a quid for a set, but another £11 postage!!!! https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... jj6w%3D%3D

(How many do you need? I may have a few spare - PM me your address)
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it


...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Rear brake solution

Postby Blaster » Mon 25.08.2025, 10:04

dapinky wrote:
Do you mean the rear calliper sliders?...... if so, I got mine from Rock Auto when I got some other stuff........ only a quid for a set, but another £11 postage!!!! https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... jj6w%3D%3D

(How many do you need? I may have a few spare - PM me your address)


I have added them to my basket. I have put grease on them to protect it for now.

Only one has gone but I may as well change the lot as it is only time till the rest go.
Tony

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