Cambelt Change - Timing Lock Holes not Aligned

[NoahR]

Hi all,

I'm partway through changing the cambelt (engine mount bolts took me forever, and I've now run out of daylight), but I'm looking for a bit of advise to confirm I'm at TDC.

I've rotated the engine round (using the crankshaft bolt, with the spark plugs out), to what I believe is TDC. The 3 timing marks align, however, when I went to put bolts in to lock the camshafts in place, the bolt wouldn't quite fit in the inlet camshaft (it fits in the exhaust camshaft fine) - it's ever so slightly shy of the hole in the block. The missalignment is so small that a slightly smaller screw will fit in the hole, however, the bolts off of the camshaft/belt cover, which fill the entire hole, won't fit.

I've attatched pictures for reference: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

Could anyone advise further on whether this is an acceptable tolerance or if something is out of alignment?

Thanks.

[NoahR]

Just some more thinking, can't quite decide if the crankshaft is a fraction clockwise out of alignment. I did turn the engine over multiple times, but really struggled to get it any more aligned than that - it would go easy, easy, easy, hard, then spin quite easily all of a sudden if that makes sense. This unpredictability made getting it right hard. Spark plugs were fully removed at one point as well to reduce pressure buildup.

[dapinky]

I don't think you have a problem here (from just the pics!) - there is a fair bit of slack in the belt between the 2 camshafts, which can be taken up by a slight anti-clockwise rotation of the inlet cam to get the timing holes to align. The actual timing marks on the pulley edge look close enough, and it certainly isn't a whole tooth out anywhere.

I suspect that it is a tensioner issue, coupled with an old(er) belt which will have stretched with age/use.

I'd rock the inlet cam using the pulley bolt (or flats on the camshaft itself if the cover is off) until the bolt fits snugly, then crack on and replace the belt. I always make tipex marks on the pulleys and old belt, then transfer the marks to the new belt so that I know it is in the same place as when removed - then get the tensioner fitted and working. It is important to set the engine at 60 DATDC to measure the tension between the 2 camshaft pulleys using a 10Kg weight and a metal ruler to measure the correct deflection.

Basically, it all looks fine to me at the moment.

[NoahR]

Hi Dave,

That's good to hear, thanks for the info! - From the records, I don't think the belt has been done in about 7 years, so that would make sense. And I do agree, its definitly not a whole tooth out.

Good stuff. - I'll crack on tomorrow.

[Tuga2112]

i tried to find it but i cant. ~~I had my NA timing out by a tooth in the NA not long ago. i posted the video somewhere but i have no idea where and cant find it now so that you can get a good idea of what it looks like when the timing is off by a single tooth for the sake of reference.

i cant remmeber what i have put in my videos anymoe. but at nearly hour and half. i sure hope theres something there that can be helpfull.

[NoahR]

Thanks Tuga. - Was watching the video while doing the job, very helpful.

For reference, you mention a similar issue but conclude it's as good as it can be, at approx 53 min.

[Tuga2112]

in 3 elans that i done the belt. the little amount of "misalignment" was present... in fact... same was foudn when i done a volvo, saab and toyota engines.

but stating this appears to be the norm is of little value. when i filmed that misalnignment on the NA it was a really good example of when things are off

[NoahR]

Interesting, thanks Tuga.

Well, success, I think! - Only took two days, haha. No MOT, so can't take it for a proper drive, but just around the car park, it sounds and feels fine/like it did before.

The only thing is, the boot gauge is pinned at the max from the moment I turn the car on. Now, I'm only about 80% sure it wasn't doing this before, but either way, it does need looking at. - My only thought right now is that the hose pictured here (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing) is very much deteriorating, and had come off before, but I'm not sure what this is for.

An elanscan file from before the change shows boost at zero (again, no driving, only at idle, so no reason for it to be higher), and an elanscan file from just now shows boost at zero.- Same conditions.

[NoahR]

Just come accross this thread: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7038

Will check the ground wire when I get time to work on the car again

[Tuga2112]

the boost dial gauge seems to be a recurring issue in more recent years, although nobody actually tells you exactly what was wrong with theirs. it seems that they always get it fixed after focusing on trying to make sure all connections and wires are properly attached.

[dapinky]

Noah,

The pipe you picture is the vacuum pipe from the plenum to the boost actuator - with it broken you will have a vacuum leak which will cause some idle/running irregularities, but won't stop the car from working! (but you won't get any boost gauge information)....... it is 'standard' vacuum hose, and I replace the whole lot on the car with 3mm inside diameter silicone vacuum hose from ebay (I buy it in 10m rolls, but each car uses about 5m if you swap out all the hoses including the heater ones)...... something like this from Amazon - different lengths and colours available.

The boost transducer flicking to maximum is common - and "usually" to do with the earth wire. I have never found out why it happens, and sometimes it needs just a clean/wiggle of the connector, and other times I've had to run a whole new wire to the bonnet hinge or somewhere else suitable.

[chrism]

Following on from Tuga's + dapinky's comments I've had two situations (one this Boxing Day) where the boost gauge 'stayed down' and each time there was a miraculous recovery when I tightened up the two holding screws in the centre of the pic.

My pal peteoddcar, who has a major connection to m100 electrics (awful pun... ), explained to me that the black earth lead is attached via a round washer-type crimped connector to the bottom screw which, in turn, is screwed in place using a rubbery rawl plug. This gradually loosens over time and the connection becomes lost (I suppose cos half the connection is the rubber bit) and retightening usually solves the issue.

He's re-attached his black wire end-connector to the metal cradle itself just by drilling a hole etc and this seems to be a brilliant, simple fix.

(In the attached pic you can just see the black rubbery, rawl-pluggy bit if you look behind the top screw...)

ps crikey I've just noticed that I've become a 'God'...

[RonR]

Did that to mine, too - for exactly the same reason.
I also use copper-slip sparingly on all bolt threads that carry an electrical connection, experience on an Elan Plus 2 taught me that one!

Still a Fanatic!

[chrism]

[Tuga2112]

the black earth lead is attached via a round washer-type crimped connector to the bottom screw which, in turn, is screwed in place using a rubbery rawl plug. This gradually loosens over time and the connection becomes lost

this probably explains why i never had the issue... many moons ago when i painted the clam shell i swapped then with a threadded metal back plate that is PU glued to the fibreglass. metal to metal and rather tight connection.

my main issue with that gauge is the backlight LED bulbs that seem to have really poor connections... but thats something i am confident i can resolve without needing to nag everyone else about

[NoahR]

Thank you everyone for all of the information!

I'll look to replace the vac lines, thanks for the link. And will also go ahead and tighten up loose electrical connections and replace the ground wire if needed.

[DublinBlueElan]

Didn't want to start a new thread specifically for what I have to say so just used the most recent timing belt post I could find. Just tackled the timing belt this evening. Granted I have only stripped it down, still need to fit the belt and pump and rebuild the rest. I honestly did not find this job hard at all. I've done much more difficult belts in the past. Golf GTI, Audi TT, 1st gen passat all way more difficult. Not to mention timing chains on TSI engines or the new belts with digital timing. I agree that space is tight and most people who attempt this probably are not qualified mechanics but it gets way more bad press than it needs to.

[Tuga2112]

there are certainly harder belts to do... i just dropped the engine of my MR2 because the JIT bolt in the water pump was too tight and i had not enought clearance to get proper access to it to undo without risking stripping...

i also done the timing belt on the NA elan (considerably easier)
but the vast majority of cars (in my experience volvo XC90, Saab 93, Alfa 156, toyota 4runner) its a complete dodle by comparison.

if you come from the background of working on "normal" cars. the elan's belt is dificult, and if your first belt is an elan belt.. it is quite the challenge... if you come from a different background.. it will sound a lot worse than it actually is.

i wouldnt hesistate to help a friend with a M100 belt needing doing, they would be very aware this is a big favour... but i will not get invovled with anybody doing the MR2 unless they trully understand the size of "big" the favour they are asking about actually is.

[Tuga2112]

and to note further..

doing a belt on jackstands outside compared to indoors with a scisor lift its a 20x difference in the challenge.

i would simply NOT get involved in any work outside these days..

[DublinBlueElan]

there are certainly harder belts to do... i just dropped the engine of my MR2 because the JIT bolt in the water pump was too tight and i had not enought clearance to get proper access to it to undo without risking stripping...


i wouldnt hesistate to help a friend with a M100 belt needing doing, they would be very aware this is a big favour... but i will not get invovled with anybody doing the MR2 unless they trully understand the size of "big" the favour they are asking about actually is.

I did a decat downpipe on an MR2 turbo in the driveway years ago and it wasn't easy!

Back to the elan, I've been wondering.... I replaced the belt and water pump only as the tensioner and idler bearings were in good order. It had me thinking though that the car has most likely had a few belts over the years and the tensioner bolt is original. I don't know how many times it's been tightened or over tightened so might replace it. (Discovered this can be done quite quickly via the bung on the lower timing cover) Has anybody used a regular 6 point M8 bolt in place of the standard bolt?