Sparkplugs

[ESM]

I would like some feedback from chip and BBR owners, expecially the ones with heavy right feet, on the condition of the plugs. I'm particularly interested if there is any evidence of overheating (glazing). As the power gains from modifications increases we are getting to the level where we should consider if there is a need to migrate to a cooler plug. The next generation chip may require this change as the mix will probably be leaner and the power higher - I believe the stock plug 'temperature' is right for the current crop of chips.

On a related topic, I've experienced less than electric performance from red car since the day I bought it. Detailed analysis of logs, inspection of components and selective part replacements (mostly ignition) have failed to resolve the issue. Recently its gone beyond simple hesitation and lumpy power delivery to outright misfires at above 0.5bar or so. In desperation I got a set of the BKR6EIX plugs (iridium tipped) because they resolved the slight miss lwalling experienced after fitting an Everest (although I got the 0.8mm not the 1.1mm gapped ones). The iridium electrode is 0.6mm in diameter which is much smaller than standard and so a spark will be produced under conditions where the standard plugs fails to spark (the voltage & compression at which the spark fails will be lower & higher respectively). This has completely resolved the miss (I'll check out the power later but it seemed much improved). The plugs I removed looked perfectly good - not glazed, a little grey ash - the gap may have been a little high. So if you're having issues, even with stock boost levels (I did), they might be worth a go. I got a set for thirty something quid from here. The old plugs are going off to NGK to get checked out, maybe they'll have some ideas. It still puzzles me that some Elans are more sensitive to this than others. Maybe I'm treating the symptoms and not the disease?

As an aside I see that the 1.1mm gap BKR6E-11 is listed as an option for the SE in the workshop manual - not something I'd recommend based on my experience.

[John_W]

Alan,
I've been running the Everest v4.2 since insurance renewal in August. Power is fine and I have had no problems apart from one lumpy start after it failed to catch first time.

The plugs are bog-standard 1-year-old NGKs, so I'd say standard is fine up to that stage of tune (~210 BHP). However I have not removed them recently for a look-see and I don't drive like Stevo.

When Michael visited on his Scotland trip he was complaining of a misfire at high revs (BBR). We removed his plugs which were gapped too wide (about 40 thou from memory) and replaced them with properly gapped standard ones. This solved the misfire; I hope it is still OK.

John

PS I look forward to the next generation of (? fuel-mapped ?) chips.

[ESM]

Yes I agree - some cars seem happy to accept the standard plugs and wadges of boost with no problem. Mine doesn't (the red one anyway, the blue one doesn't care about the plugs it goes like a train anyway)- much over the basic 0.8mm gap and its unhappy across all engine conditions. I can't explain it but its true.

[ESM]

I can confirm the red car now goes like stink (let me know if I get too technical)

[Doug]

I got Torquemaster plugs shortly after turning up the boost with a MBC years ago. They are one step 'cooler' than stock. They have done well and I haven't even had reason to check them for years. From what I gathered and from talking to the plug engineer himself, one step cooler is the way to go with high boost or NOS. . .

[John_W]

I got Torquemaster plugs shortly after turning up the boost with a MBC years ago.

Alan,
I seem to remember you used to swear by Torquemaster also, until your friendly local garage binned them at a service (prior to your close encounter of the bus kind).

But then didn't you buy a new set at vast expense? So how come if you've had two sets of Torquemasters in the red car you now say that the red car has always had a power deficit? And how does that jive with Doug's endorsement of Torquemaster and your new-found power with fairly standardish iridium plugs?

Yours confused,
John

[Doug]

yeah . . .


and why would you need a new set if only repairable damage to the red car from the bus? were they 'colder' plugs?

interested to hear the real explanation from alan.

man, you can't say anything on this forum without getting grilled

[ESM]

Yeah I had a set Torquemaster plugs (for much the same reason as I got the iridium ones) and they were canned after I'd had them for about 6 months by my garage (they replaced them as part of a routine service - I was really happy when I found out) but I never did get another set - it was just too expensive and too much hassle ordering them from Italy (the only European distributor). I can't remember what the temperature rating was but I lifted the part number from LEC. I also did some research and found that, as with the iridium plug, they will spark in more adverse conditions than stock plugs but you only get significant benefit if you have an ignition problem to start with. The torquemaster plug geometry is actually not the best from a combustion point of view because the spark is not as exposed as in conventional plugs. The ideal plug would have a big gap and protrude well into the cylinder (the iridium plug with the wider 1.1mm gap might offer some advantages over a standard plug). Anyway I persisted with the standard NGK plugs in the believe that I just had to find the elusive underlying engine issue. When the miss arrived I did a lot of diagnostic work but found nothing that indicated a cause for the problem so in desperation I went down the whacky plug route.

Sadly I still have a power problem - the new plugs have resolved the misfire and the car feels way better but I did some logged runs this morning and its probably 40bhp at the wheels down on what the blue car gets with the same setup. So while I'm a bit further forward I'm back to scratching my head.

[John_W]

I did some logged runs this morning and its probably 40bhp at the wheels down on what the blue car gets with the same setup. So while I'm a bit further forward I'm back to scratching my head.

Alan,
Sorry to be so picky, all is now clear.

As to your missing 40 BHP, it's just that blue cars are faster than red ones.

... why would you need a new set if only repairable damage to the red car from the bus?

Maybe it got smacked in the rear so hard that the plugs flew out.

I'll now shut up and let this thread return to your original objective.

John

[Doug]

dirty injectors . . . ??

[M100 TWO]

ESM have you changed the coil?

[ESM]

Injectors are a possibility but I have run through a couple of bottles of injector cleaner and the oxygen and knock sensors are giving any indication that it might be fuel related. It starts perfectly hot or cold which is another contra-indication, however, I might get them cleaned just to eliminate the possibility. My main intention at the moment is to check the timing again (a seized fixing on the wheel arch liner is making that difficult though) and then probably try it on a dyno and see if the tuner can come up with anything inspired.

I've been looking through some old logs and I did get a solid 150bhp at the wheels from red car once - when I had hacked the high boost fuel enrichment ratio to 12:1...

Just to remind anyone who's made it to here and retained consciousness, I'm interested in the condition of plugs in souped up cars. A cooler plug is generally indicated after a power increase in the region of 75bhp and while the BBR/chip upgrades don't quite make that margin its definitely worth inspecting the plugs to make sure they are in their operating envelope, especially if you use full throttle a lot.

[ESM]

ESM have you changed the coil?

The coilpack (so both coils), the leads (twice), the plugs several times, fitted an oxygen sensor and converted to a closed loop chip (in case there was some drift in fuel pressure).

[Monty]

Alan,

I`ve not long since changed my plugs but when i come to change them next year i`ll try the BKR6EIX plugs (iridium tipped) but once changed how often will the BKR6EIX need changing

[ESM]

The iridium is rock hard and much more resistant than anything else currently employed to spark erosion of the electrode - this is why they can get away with much smaller electrode diameters without a service life penalty. The life expectancy touted is ludicrously high, I've seen 100,000 miles mentioned! I think an inspection every other service and replacement as required, much like the stock items, would be sensible.

[Monty]

was just wondering, cause at over 30 squid a pop there not cheap cheap , not like the standard NGK`s as there cheap as chips

[ESM]

they are NGKs but I take your point

[M100 TWO]

ESM if you have a timing light with an advance dial, time the car on TDC it is easier to get too take into account the wasted spark
john

[ESM]

The technical boys at NGK say that the cause of my problem was the wrong plug temperature and I should use a colder plug. I think this might be a bit of a generic response based on hearing the words 'increased boost' (the plugs showed no evidence of glazing and the logs no evidence of knock) but I thought I'd feed it back anyway.

They suggest BKR7EIX plugs

[Nige]

ESM, as you know I have an Everest chip and cannot claim to have noticed any misfie at high boost high revs. Opportunities to drive the car that hard are limited but I do like to when an appropriate opportunity presents itself. I'll pull my plugs at some stage in the near future (standard spec BKR6E, new in June) and report back on any signs of glazing or otherwise. As an aside I find I can time the car with a strobe without removing the wheelarch liner. It does require getting my head and the strobe right into the arch but I have enough room once the wheels off.