Massive overboost- No cut off.....Help!!!

[skywalker]

Hello again all,
Ok, I'm on my third elan - this ones kind of a project, and to be fair, its causing me grief.
The Boost is clean off the dial - reading around 1.2-1.5 bar when your foots flat to the floor - this cannot be good. However the strange thing is, no cut off by the engine management.
Ok, most of you are reading this and thinking - actuator rods ceased - No, first thing I checked- closely followed by renewing all air pipes to be sure there no little leaks - and there's no boost bleed valve - tho the latter two should still be overridden by the ECU saying "arrrrgh - please stop"!!
Anyway - next port of call - strip out the ecu..... ah ha..... its been chipped - personally I'm not a great fan. - So, I order a new ECU from a breakers yard - popped it in - and guess what.... still overboosting with no cut off!! However, I think that as its been remapped - the overboost is now far more of a problem with the un-modified ecu as its not getting what it needs from the computer.
Please somebody tell me that they've been down this road before, or know whats going on!! I'm starting to get stressed now!! I've checked all the exhaust gaskets, turbo gaskets etc, they are all fine.
Could it be a faulty actuator?? The rod moves ok, but is it when I'm driving along?
Help!! Please.........................
Thanks,
Dave

[Monty]

How do u know it`s been chipped?

U sure u haven`t got the BBR version, which has a FCD fitted to the bulk head and a little bleed valve in the BSV pipe line? cause changing the ecu wouldn`t make a differance.

How do u know it`s boosting 1.2 to 1.5?

If it is chipped wouldn`t mind knowing what type it is

[skywalker]

Definatley Chipped - Took the whole ECU out, took the top off which had had both seals broken, and where the removable chip board is set, it has been modified with a "SuperChip" Chip.
Forgive me, but I'm not familiar with the "BBR" converstion - Which pipe line would have the Bleed valve - The short air tube on the Right side of the actuator? If so - none fitted....... If you could explain what you've mentioned in a little more depth without the abreviations, I'd be really grateful.
Thanks for your time,
Dave
With regards to the Boost level, its off the gauge so I had a friend of mine monitor the boost with something at his garage - had to leave it with him as I was on my way to work so I don't know what - but he confirmed it - 1.2+

[Monty]

Think Alan (ESM) needs to come in here.

If it was chipped and u changed the ECU then it would return to stock boost.

A FCD is a Fuel Cut Defender, which tricks the ECU not to cut fuel when u hit the boost limit. On the BBR this is found on the bulk head next to the heallight lift module and the plastic bleed thing IIRC is between the pipe that goes from the BSV (Boost Solinoid Valve at the back of the airfilter box) and the actuator.

If u do have the superchip why do u want to remove it?

[Doug]

could it be: loose ground wire to the boost sensor --> showing more boost than normal . . .

[skywalker]

Hello all,
thanks for your response's.....
Ok, Just out of curiosity, is the bleed valve adjustable or just a small plastic t-piece type thingy-me-job?? Just when I was replacing the air piping, I had a small dismembered t-piece in that line - I have since replaced the whole pipe and therefore would have eliminated that issue??
As for the ECU - that was my theory - replace it, and back to stock levels...... But no!!!
In response to the other statement "why do I want to remove it" Basically, Its Blo*dy deadly!!! Well apart from that, The boost is so much that its not smooth if that makes any sense - when you progress above 1bar, its notchy, like it doesn't want to be there, which I fully understand! And if left to boost at that level for more than 2-3 seconds, actually pulls the pipe between the primary throttle body and the intercooler pipe clean off the throttle body.
Its simply too much - I want to take it back to Stock, and fiddle with it so it drives how I want it to - basically, max boost 0.9 bar, simply using a bleed valve, induction and st/st exhaust.
This setup running as rich as possible would be fine for a track - but a little wild for road use!!

[skywalker]

Hello Doug - No definatley overboosting - not just a loose wire.
If it felt ok, I wouldn't have a problem with it as lets face it - people spend £££££'s getting these things to shift like stink - but nobody wants a dead elan!! This has a problem somewhere - or someones gone a step too far trying to get the best out of it.
Thanks anyway - all inputs greatfully received
Dave

[Doc Fizzix]

Could the waste gate be stuck? Not opening? Just a thought

[Doug]

finally had time to read your progress

well, if you put in a new virgin ECU and it is still not hitting the fuel cut, then there must be something tricking the ECU--such as a fuel cut defencer (FCD). This may be in the wiring to the MAP sensor in the intake plenum--look for a splice in here and a little box with a small circuit board in it.

If you can get ElanScan up and running you should be able to log the run, analyze the true boost, and also know if there is something altering the MAP reading to the ECU. Good old ElanScan is your best tool . . . .

[Dico]

Just by a Quaife (limited slip diferential) and enjoy

[skywalker]

Hello all,
Thanks for your inputs again.......

Just to further on from them -
LSD - lovely idea, but its only going to control the wheels..... I'm still going to lose pipes everytime I boost!!
With regards to the FCD, there's got to be one somewhere - I haven't had a proper chance to look yet - but there's no way there's not as it still dosn't cut out, even with the new ECU.
However, this still dosn't solve the overboost which is my most painful of quest's.
That leads me finally onto the other post - the wastegate.
Now, I know its free, I've had the heatshield off for maximum vision and can move it - Right to left - with not only mole grips, but by bending my hands, my fingers - tho stiff, but thats to be expected, it still moves.
One small thing is tho - how do could I tell if its actually moving under vaccum - would this just be rolling road test?? I can only suspect that this is the problem - I cannot see any other reason why it continues to boost at such an massive level. The computers not telling it to, there's no boost control valve...... So I can't see anything else.
I'm going to have a good look today- fiddle, fiddle, fiddle, and I'll let you know my progress.
Thanks all for your input - hopefully I'll be able to post some positive progress!!!

[skywalker]

Hello again,
I think I may have sourced the issue??
The BSV has two outlets/inlets - one on the right, and one on the base.
Only the one on the right has a pipe attched - -and this was blanked off.... how I didn't notice, I have no idea.
Now, from my recollection, the one from the right links to a t-piece - one side of which goes to one of the air box attachements, the other side goes to the rear side of the actuator.
I've done this, but it's still overboosting - OK, so where, if anywhere, should the one from the base be going?? And is the above mentioned one correctly linked????
Since linking the right hand side inlet/outlet and taking it for a test drive - the boost's alot smoother - however- its still too much.
I also don't know if somebody could do me a huge favour.
Where the pipe leads to the the wastegate capsule, there is a small "one in - one out" one the back (It would normally be in this lead that you would put a pressure release valve for more boost. If I have one pipe attched to the 'rear of this small block - and disconnect the wastegate, - I basically have Pipe - bridge attached to Turbo - Pipe. Now when I blow through this pipe, the air flow is fine - when I put my thumb over the end of the pipe (As though my thumb was the actuator being pushed by the pressure) and blow down the other end - There is no pressure - air leaks from inside the block into the turbo - is this normal or is there a problem - because if its not - this would surely be my problem - The wastegate is not moving because there is never a pressure build up in it. - however, It may be that whilst running, the system "backs up itself" not allowing this "leak" to be a problem. Thats why I need somebody else to test it one theres.
If anyones really bored - if they could sketch me a diagram of where every airhose goes that would be amazing!!!
Thanks guys,
Dave

[skywalker]

Hello all again,
Its Sorted!!!!!! Finally!!
OK, better tell you the tale.....
It ended up that not only did the BSV have Blankers in the line - but also had a disconnected wire!
Downloaded the parts mannual as I've lost my previous copy and looked at all the induction diagrams - set these up as they should be - but noticed that one of the BSV pipes had an extender in it - No..... Blank plug.
Replaced this pipe - and sure enough, back to 0.5/6 boost!!! Whey-hey!!
So now the finer tunning begins - first of all - what advantages does the Superchip have..... Will let you all know the outcome. Good things are - It has a FCD in there, and I'm sure there's severa; other little tricks kicking about - I've just got to find them...... Long read through the electrical man. next!!!
Just really wanted to say a Big thankyou for all your time and responses.
This time I won't lose my username & password so You'll be seeing me around the site again.
Thans again,
Dave

[Monty]

but noticed that one of the BSV pipes had an extender in it
Dave

U sure this isn`t part of the BBR

[skywalker]

Hello,
No - It had been blanked off to eliminate the cars actual boost control - I'm assuming that something else was used to control the amount of boost?? Either that, or some muppet had it before and liked having "limitless" boost?? - Its running like a dream now - poor things probably grateful its its still alive!! Nice though - I've got a good base of gadgets to start the "re-tuning" of it.
I've popped the superchip back in it - but am yet to have a chance to take it for a rip as its piddling down with rain here in sunny Norfolk!
Will let you know what its like - by rights it should just increase the amount a fuel being dispersed, in turn adding more air - = a touch more power - but in turn often smooths out Lag etc, so Fingers crossed!!
Depending on what the Chip's like, I may send it around the forum to those interested so some of you can try it out for a week or so - I'll post something next week, gather a list of names and address's, then each person can try it and send it onto the next - one day I might get it back!!
Thing is - its worth trying if anybodys thinking of investing in one - there about £500 ish and it may not do what you expected.
Cheers,
Dave

[Monty]

Glad to see u`ve sorted the boost problem.

I`ve drove a M100 with a superchip when checking a car out for someone and that boosted of the gauge but it was very smooth. Be good if u could pass the chip on to Alan (ESM) to see what he thinks of it as i wouldn`t mind a chip which will boost 1 lb+

[skywalker]

Soon as I've had a chance to do some setup test's with it - I'll let you know the boost levels etc - Tho I suspect that You would need a FCD installed and maybe a Bleed valve in line to boost above the 1 Bar?? The chip would just insure that the correct mixtures are being dispersed?? Not sure if the chip actually has any further control over the amount of boost??
But yeah - think its only fair to pass it round so other people can have a play - lets face it- you've all quick to help out a fellow "elaner" - some things I don't know enough about to be able to comment - so Lets just say its my way of putting something back in!!
Will post the results of the test runs under this link.
Dave

[Monty]

I wouldn`t start passing the chip about as it may get damage.
The superchip should also control the boost level, no need for a MBC. Alan produces the chip which is set to .9 bar on the everest and IIRC Alan can clip the fuel cut through the chip too

[skywalker]

Mmmmmm food for thought!
Be interesting to see how it works out.
Would have thought the chip would be ok to pass around you fellows - wouldn't send the ECU, just the chip compartment - its pretty robust, especially in a Jiffy bag! But if Allan's the Chip man, as you say - may be worth letting him have a look and reporting back to the rest of you.
Watch this space!

[ESM]

Only just came across this thread, been away a few days. I've already had a look at the code from a 'SuperChip' and all its does is disable the overboost safety (they change 2 bytes in the whole ECU, its not subtle).

Skywalker, I've read your chip comments here and elsewhere and you shouldn't assume that all chips are like the SuperChip. My chip lifts the fuel cutout level a bit (but doesn't eliminate it), changes the target boost map (so the boost is changed via the car's original BSV) and also changes some of the BSV control parameters so that the boost comes in more rapidly above the passive wastegate opening point (i.e. when in active boost control). I plan to remap the mixture and spark advance tables at the higher boosts later this year on a dyno. Boost control beyond 1 bar of boost is a non starter without sensor mods (or a horrendous bodge see BBR and SuperChip) as the stock sensor is a 2 bar part (1 bar of boost) and the injectors are close to full flow at the top of that range.