Trainee Mechanic

[ailwyn]

For anyone interested in the Powerstop rear discs.

Ailwyn

[ailwyn]

I have started to apply waxoyl to the rear wishbone and anti-roll bar, I just wanted to check that it s supposed to look like this, for some reason I was expecting it to be smooth like paint.

Ailwyn

[Enright]

For anyone interested in the Powerstop rear discs.

Ailwyn

Is it just me or can anyone else not see the pic?
Can you resize it to 600x400 (or maybe 450) size so that it displays properly?

Great words from Algirdas on that last page - I agree entirely. And you should hear about some of my engineering "oops" moments!

[Dico]

Looks normal to me. Blast it on and dont worry how it looks

[John_W]

Is it just me or can anyone else not see the pic?

When I follow the "download" I also just get a red cross.

FYI Ailwyn I'm currently derusting my front suspension (I was fitting my Brian/ESM front brakes and one thing led to another - you know how it goes). I last spent quality time with my suspension rust 3 years ago. I scraped and brushed off as much as I could, but did not use any rust-preventative undercoat or treatment, as hammerite claims you can just paint over mild rust. So that's what I did and it all flaked off over about 2 years.

I had the pleasure of derusting (scraping and wire-brushing) my rear suspension last month, and this weekend have been treating my front right to the same TLC.

This time I've decided to use an "anti-rust" primer (the orange hammerite undercoat stuff available from Halfrauds) - two coats as recommended - then hammerite, then black waxoyl underseal, then clear waxoyl.

We'll see how long that lot lasts.

The main problem seems to be adhesion of the base coat to the rusty metal substrate. If that bond is weak, then all subsequent layers just fall off with the first one and allow corrosion a way in.

The reason I didn't just use hammerite alone is that, although a tough coating, it seems to fall off if not adequately keyed. The reason I didn't just use Waxoyl is that it is a soft coating which will need re-applied at intervals. If it's easy enough to re-apply, this may be the way to go. Your picture looks to me like you've used Hammerite underseal (which incorporates Waxoyl) rather than Waxoyl. Mind you I've never used the black variety.

By the way, if you're derusting the undersides, take off the wheelarch liners when you get to the front (a joy in itself) and then attack what you see. It's generally pretty clean, but there are centres of severe corrosion which need seeing to (especially if you look forward).

John

[ailwyn]

Had a busy day today, all bits stripped down, lightly sanded to get rid of 10 years worth of muck and painted with Ronseal straight to rust paint.

Thought I would bling bling the hub carrier with gold paint, not that anyone will see it once reassembled. Not sure how long the paint will stay on there as I didn't use primer, let's wait and see. BTW I realise I'm no picasso before people start pointing out the crappy brush work.

Also the new parts have arrived from SJs this week, main items are the refurbed calipers, braided hoses, and a new section of brake pipe which runs along the wishbone.

Finally got the bearing cups in, will probably be frowned upon for doing it, but I dry fitted the disc with the new cups and old bearings, put rags between the bearings and the cups and tightened until the cups were pushed to the correct seating. I was very wary about doing it and carried on knowing that I migh damage the cups in the process and face buying new ones and start from scratch, although this seemed preferable to swallowing my pride and trying to find a garage that would do it for me.

I don't know whether I've been lucky, but the cups seem to be unmarked.

I'm now in a position to start re-assembling and re-fitting (once all the paint is dry) so I have my fingers crossed for fine weather next weekend.

In the meantime, I have a few questions:

1. In order to re-fix the hub carrier to the suspension, upper arm and wishbone, I need to lube the spindles(?) with a copper coloured oil/grease. Can someone tell me what this is and can it be found in Halfords or do I need to go elsewhere?

2. SJs have kindly pointed out the R/H caliper, which side it the right hand side? When I stripped it all I kept everything spereated as driver (O/S?) and passenger (N/S?), right hand is a little too subjective for my liking.

3. What is the best way to clean the disc before fitting to ensure no oil/grease is on the brake surface?

4. I plan to rebuild everything then last job attach to the suspension, can anyone see any problems with this approach or would this be the way to go?

Thanks

Ailwyn

[DeeAitch]

Don't be tempted to whack the new "outer bearing race" - place the old one on top and whack that instead Best to use a press if you can get one but make sure it goes in square.

[Dico]

Good to see your getting on top of it

2- Copperslip, Yes, available from halfords. Get the larger tub (halfords own stuff is as good as any other make, white plastic container) around a fiver.

3- brake cleaner. again from halfords, in aerosol form.

[muley]

I have started to apply waxoyl to the rear wishbone and anti-roll bar, I just wanted to check that it s supposed to look like this, for some reason I was expecting it to be smooth like paint.

Ailwyn

Hmmmm. Waxoyl proper is like thin car wax - someone else has pointed out that it looks more like the underseal that contains waxoyl. l don't want to rain on your parade but once upon a time I coated my Herald chassis with underseal without removing ALL the rust before I started and covering the chassis with an underseal accelerated the corrosion.

I am no expert on rustproofing but I tend to scrape off what I can with a drag hook, use a rust killer, then Hammerite on the bits that need it then smother the item with waxoyl. I spray a couple of tines of wd40 or equivalant into the wishbones - they tend to rust from inside out.

Another tip, before working on the car I force soap underneath my nails and rub Nivea into my hands - it makes it easier to clean up afterwards.

I see you have another car - this is really the best option because as Al says; walking away is good sometimes (Yesterday I was stuck with a minor task on the (French built - ****me!) standard front brakes & nearly burst a blood vessel!)

Your brake parts look superb.

You can use methylated spirits to degrease the discs.

The nuts on the end of the double ended bolt at the lower end of the upright (can't think of the proper name and the manual is in my other office) are FINE pitch, if you are thinking of replacing them.

Doing it ourselves we're saving serious money - hold that thought.

Cheers

Jim

[ailwyn]

Thanks for the continued encouragement.

Dave, bearing race(s) already fitted using the method above, but thanks for the advice.

Dico, Continues to move, slowly but surely, think I'm over the worst now, re-fitting should be quite easy, although I still have the brake pipes & hoses to fit... still room to balls it up Thanks for the product names, I should buy shares in halfords and get some of my money back

Jim, As John W stated, this is probably the underseal, billed as "Hammerite with Waxoyl". My wishbones are galvanised and I couldn't see a single patch of rust, and the drain hole is clear, but who knows.... I have replaced the Nyloc nuts you are talking about, got them from SJs, probably paid 5 times more but at least they will be the right part

Another car is the only way to do it, takes away the pressure, but you still need to keep focused as it would be all too easy for it to be pushed down the list, especially when the better half wants you to do other things

Ailwyn

[muley]

Ailwyn,

Sorry I missed the point about them being galvanised.

I got my nuts from SW Lotus - they got it right the second time!

I brushed a little clear waxoyl over my wishbones and filled them with waxoyl, but they are more or less 'au naturelle'.

I did scrape off all the crud from the anti-roll bar, put on rust killer and 2 coats of rather fetching smooth yellow Hammerite.

Good point about the other half, I've only just had my bedroom refurb signed off, so I have only just restarted on blackie.

Cheers

Jim

[ailwyn]

We are not having a good day today....

All fired up to put the brakes back together, even though I would not be able to fit them to the car as it's p*ssing down!

Torqued up the hub carrier to stub axle bolts - no problem. Came to torquing up the caliper bracket bolts, first one went fine, second one must have just about been there and..... SNAP! Damn thing snapped in two, with two thirds of it buried in the hub carrier

What do I need to look for in the yellow pages to find someone to remove the offending bolt?

Ailwyn

[algirdas]

Dear Ailwyn:

Allow me to be the very first to congratulate you on your graduation! With that snapped bolt, you are no longer a trainee mechanic, but you are now, fully and completely, one of us!

First option is the easy option. Go to your local parts store/home center/whatever and ask for screw extractors (they may be called something else over there so explain to them what is the problem you are facing). They are relatively cheap (at least here in the states). In fact, my neighbor gave me a set for Christmas last year (Wait a second! Is he making a statement about my wrenching abilities?).

These clever little devices chuck into your REVERSIBLE drill. You press the extractor bit against the shaft of the snapped off bolt and SLOWLY have your drill turn COUNTERCLOCKWISE. The challenge is to get more BITE onto the shaft of the snapped bolt than TWIST from the drill. If you get more twist, then all you will do is maul the shaft of the bolt and then, I'm sorry to say, you are probably looking at a trip to a machine shop to extract or drill and re-tap or drill and Heli-coil. Relax-neither of the foregoing, in a general sense, is that big of a deal.

In using an extractor, I have also found that a little bit of heat goes a long way in helping it do its work. I have a small canister of "propane" gas (we call it MAP gas here in the states since it burns hotter than traditional propane in the blue canisters. MAP gas usually comes in yellow canisters.) Its the same sort of stuff you would use for sweating or soldering a joint on a copper pipe under the kitchen sink at home. The key to using Mr. Heat is to have it heat the part around the offending bolt and causing it to expand and hence taking the tension off of the bolt so the extractor can have an easier time of driving it out. You do not want to superheat or melt the part (obviously) nor do you want to apply so much heat that the snapped bolt expands as well and gets tight against the threads.

BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL USING MR. HEAT! Stay away from fuel lines, gas tanks and the like. Also, when you are done, make sure it is turned off and the flame is gone and the hot tip is away from anything that can burn. No need to hurry. The part you have heated will give off its heat relatively slowly.

Let us know how this goes. And, again, congratulations!

Sincerely,

Algirdas

[GeoffSmith]

Ailwyn,

You're not alone!

Algirdas is right. Stud/screw extractors are worth a try and always come in handy. As I said on Monty's thread, try and get a pilot hole as close to the centre of the bolt as possible and vertical. Take things slowly and be careful you don't snap the drill. Use a centre punch first (if the bolt is proud, then it is worth using a file to get the surface reasonably flat first to stop the drill wandering) and if you have got a drill stand, use it with the hub carrier clamped level. Gently open up the hole with progressively larger drills until you can use the biggest extractor you can. Give the offending item a good soak with penetrating oil (better than WD40). Heat is good and if the bolt is proud, it is sometimes possible to get mole grips / stilsons on as well as the stud extractor to gain a little bit more purchase.

If the worst comes to the worst, a small engineering company or good car accessory shop (probably not Halfords) should be able to sort it out for you relatively cheaply.

Best of luck.

Geoff

[ailwyn]

You're not alone!

I know, Monty has my sympathies.

I have got some screw extractors but the bolt has snapped about half an inch into the hole. The hub carrier seems to be quite soft metal so I'm very wary of getting a drill bit in there.

I think I'll try and find a comapny that can remove it for me.

Thanks Al and Geoff for the support (in these trying times!).

Ailwyn

[Specky]

Ailwyn congratulations on becoming a fully fledged mechanic,
17 years ago I couldn't spell tecnicshun and now I is one..

Not much help now, but I remove sheared bolts on frequent basic IMHO cobalt drill bits are the way forward for drilling steel.

use good quality extractors, if possible stay away from anything that's modelled on the old easy out.


This is always my first chice kit..
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp ... ir=catalog

[GeoffSmith]

...but the bolt has snapped about half an inch into the hole.

Good decision Ailwyn. Part of the learning process is to able to recognise lmititations (experience, equipment) and see the potential for making problems worse by carrying on regardless.

As I said to Monty, I had one stuck in a recess. It was an aluminium cylinder head, so I had some guides turned up on a lathe with progressively larger diameter holes. They worked a treat - they held the drills central and also prevented accidental damage to head. Without those, it wasn't even worth considering as the bolt was sheared at an angle.

Now go and enjoy the beautiful weather we're having around here.

Geoff

[ailwyn]

Well, I have a brief update.... well more of a rant!

Bolt has been drilled out of the hub carrier, so I'm ready to go.... apart from.... the hub carrier to caliper bracket bolts are now obsolete (as Lotus Parts anyway) does anyone have any spares or know what size they are and UK suppliers of suitable alternatives?

SJs have sourced and alternative supplier but they will be an additional "few days" before they get them in, nice of them to explain that by writing "bolts to follow" on the invoice, leaving me plenty of time to find some more!!!!

Matty's don't have any either!

I was hoping to get this finished this weekend but alas, with impending holidays it's going to be another 3 F****** weeks before I can get this finished.

Ailwyn

[Monty]

Are u talking about the fronts the Allen head type? if so i should have them some where.

IIRC the Front stock caliper to Hub are M12 1.5mm pitch not sure on length

[ailwyn]

Are u talking about the fronts the Allen head type? if so i should have them some where.

Monty,

Sorry, should have specified it's for the rears.

Thanks

Ailwyn