Disappointing Trackday

[westonben]

I took the Elan on Croft circuit again yesterday and was a little disappointed to be the slowest person in my group. My initial thought was to sell up (after 4 years of ownership), but I've now decided it's time to go the upgrade route.

I've got an S2 elan which has an MBC, Dump valve, Willwood brake upgrade and no Cat (pre-cat still there though).

I'm not very mechanically minded but these are my thoughts on the way to go:

1. K&N air filter + Magnecor spark leads
2. New stainless exhaust (2 1/2"????) - what about FCD??
3. My friend has offered me a T3 turbo which he thinks would be a good spec for our car but I don't have the first idea about this. Is it a good spec? How easy is it to get an aftermarket turbo fitted? I wouldn't be doing it myself I'd have to get someone to do it for me - so how much do you think it would cost?? My friend reckons the T3 would be good for 1.8.
4. Slick tyres for next trackday.

Any advice appreciated.

I can still hear my biggest supporter yesterday - my 3 yr old Nephews voice saying "it's not fair that all the other cars were overtaking you".

He was right, it's not.

[chris.t]

What cars were you up against? I have never driven Croft - is it a twisty circuit? Twisty circuits are much more suited to the Elises/Exiges.

i'm not casting doubts on your driving ability but perhaps some tuition - you'll surprised at what good braking technique and looking ahead to your next turn in, apex and exit points will do to your lap times.

When i last went to Bedford i went out with an instructor. It was amazing, he was telling me to go flat out round some corners that i would never have done. Some tracks do a free tuition session for first timers. The Bedford track does just that so check out the post on UK Events for details.

[Monty]

westonben

If this is u`r 1st trackday then u`r expecting far to much, don`t forget the elise/exige are built for tracking.

IMAO i would not go down the turbo upgrade it gets complicated and end up with to much lag.

The way to go is ESM chip and a 2 1/4 exhaust which will give u just over 200 bhp. with that u should have alot more power than a standard elise.

Maybe Stevo could give some advice here as he can give the elise a good run for its money.

[davidjt]

Agree with both the above: tuition will really help, you'll be a lot quicker but probably still won't beat a good Elise or Severn, and it's not so much power (except maybe at 'Combe) but speed through the corners that makes the difference.
It's also much easier with rwd to feel what the car is about to do and, hopefully, have time to correct it; ask Chris about lift-off oversteer.
(He'll probably tell you some of us don't go fast enough to find out.)

[theelanman]

It was amazing, he was telling me to go flat out round some corners that i would never have done.

I tend not to do things like that in my own car but if it someone elses' then standing it on its nose into corners and sliding skidding and generally being a speed freak is ok......at least I can still drive mine home!!!

[westonben]

It's not my first trackday and I had instruction the whole time. Maybe I need to get the fat bloke out of the passenger seat?

Croft is considered a technical circuit, but I was getting beaten everywhere on the track - 205 GTi was pulling away on the straights.

But from the upgrade point of view, I take it the T3 option is going to involve a lot of other costs.

I'll go the everest chip and big exhaust route before looking further.

Thanks

[chris.t]

It was amazing, he was telling me to go flat out round some corners that i would never have done.

I tend not to do things like that in my own car but if it someone elses' then standing it on its nose into corners and sliding skidding and generally being a speed freak is ok......at least I can still drive mine home!!!

at bedford you can do that, if you go off the track theres plenty of space - its just amazing to see what the car can do with no hassle.

[Ashaman]

205 GTi was pulling away on the straights

~1950lbs, 115 horsepower, 63 bhp/litre, Zero to 60 in 8.5 seconds.

We never got these gems here, but does the above sound correct to you?

That would be like racing a schoolbus - something just isn't right.

[RatHead]

the 1.9 205 Gti had a 0 - 60 time of 7.8 seconds - and with some of the readily available mods this could easily be brought down to less than 7 seconds..they were fast cars

[Ashaman]

Well, that is slightly better, but still pretty slow; even a bone stock Elan should be smoking that. Well, unless it was a wildly modified GTi.

[Doug]

FWIW< throwing a 200lb. side-of-beef in the passenger seat is like adding 10% on to the weight of the car -- if this doesn't affect speed and handling then you must return to elementary for basic math . . .

[davidjt]

Also FWIW, the difference a proper exhaust has made to mine (at last!) is significant. Off to the dyno next week for some more tweaking.

(I have a surplus 'pre-cat eliminator' lying around somewhere; any offers?)

[Enright]

The 205 GTi thing is the biggest concern here.
Did you talk to the driver to see how stock it was?
Are you sure that yours is working properly already (eg timing is correct and everything)?
Do you use Elanscan?
With your MBC you should already be able to up the boost and so get somewhere near to the results of an ESM chip.
An ESM chip, K&N filter and 2 1/4" exhaust should release another 40BHP, but you may find you have to remove the turbo to port the wastegate to combat boost creep. Some do, some don't (I did).

Davidjt's route is the best one - dyno to benchmark, adjust, dyno again.
Gets pricey though.

[westonben]

Didn't get chance to talk to the GTi owner, though it said 1.6 on the side. It couldn't have been that fast.

There's no problem with my Elan, I was not so far off the pace of the elises. Think the GTi just had a couple of suprises under the bonnet. There was no passenger in it and it may even have been on slicks.

I'll go the exhaust route though and try again

[westonben]

FWIW, Gave the elises a good run for their money last trackday - that was in the wet though.

[ESM]

I wouldn't go the big turbo route unless you can afford to chuck time and money at bigger injectors, 3 bar MAP sensor, new ECU/fuel controller and re-mapping. The stock fuelling system can only cope with about 0.9bar.
The stock turbo is about right for the engine setup as stock (although a more modern version of the turbo would be nice).

if you feel the car is down on power get to a dyno and quantify what you're getting and make sure you don't have a power sapping fault of some kind - John_W has plenty of data for comparison.

[Dave M]

The biggest improvement you'll make at this point for a trackday is your #4 - sticky tires. I took 9 seconds off my best laps from one year to the next on a specific track after new tires (autocross compound) and some power upgrades. I'll guess more than 1/2 the time improvement was due to the tires.

After that, I'd agree that the chip and exhaust would be the first power upgrades to try. If you do find yourself wanting more, the next step is a big one. The T3 is a very good upgraded turbo (with the 50-trim compressor wheel), but ESM is spot on: it will involve more bits. I have a T3 in my car and it has taken a fair amount of work. It just depends on how much power and what kind of driveability you're looking to have.

[Steve_P]

FWIW I reckon you're seriously down on power - I've got a standard exhaust and BBR kit and there's no trouble keeping up with Toyota powered Elises once on the move - they do have much better traction off the line however.

I'd check your engine timing, fit The Chip and get your car on a dyno to see if you've any other power loss issues as ESM says.

Good luck..

[Philbo]

I took the Elan on Croft circuit again yesterday and was a little disappointed to be the slowest person in my group. My initial thought was to sell up (after 4 years of ownership), but I've now decided it's time to go the upgrade route.

I've got an S2 Elan which has an MBC, Dump valve, Willwood brake upgrade and no Cat (pre-cat still there though).

I'm not very mechanically minded but these are my thoughts on the way to go:

1. K&N air filter + Magnecor spark leads
2. New stainless exhaust (2 1/2"????) - what about FCD??
3. My friend has offered me a T3 turbo which he thinks would be a good spec for our car but I don't have the first idea about this. Is it a good spec? How easy is it to get an aftermarket turbo fitted? I wouldn't be doing it myself I'd have to get someone to do it for me - so how much do you think it would cost?? My friend reckons the T3 would be good for 1.8.
4. Slick tyres for next trackday.

Any advice appreciated.

I can still hear my biggest supporter yesterday - my 3 yr old Nephews voice saying "it's not fair that all the other cars were overtaking you".

He was right, it's not.

A reasonably un-modified Elan is not a huge amount of fun on a trackday. That was my impression at least in 1997 and it led to a lot of expense since The main problem with the Elan is the very peaky torque/power delivery; you need to be right on the boost all the time to get the best out of the car. On a tight & twisty circuit this is tricky, and when "bogged down" off boost other cars (especially N/A ones) can pull away. Having said that, the 205 should have been there for the taking...

The easy and cheap options that would make a significant difference are:

- Everest chip
- higher flow exhaust
- track-oriented tyres (not slicks, you'll be over-tyred for the engine IMO)
- you already have the mandatory brake upgrade which is a good start

filters & leads might make the most of what you have, but in isolation they'll do nothing worth writing home about.

Beyond that you're into some serious damage for a new turbo, ECU etc and quite frankly if you're going to go that far for track days you'd be better off buying a more track-oriented car as a separate beast. Like a Radical

Philbo

[clemo]

are you going to do these mods..
may do some to my s2.