everest chip and brakes

[shaunh]

hi there, just traded in my 330BM for some cash to pay for my wifes discovery and a little elan se turbo 1990. Love it already, have ordered a Peco exhaust (thanks Dave) and a K and N air filter. Now looking at the breaks and the everest chip. I use the car every day for commuting so is the everest practical and safe for my car? Also any advice on the front brake upgrade? I know AP racing do an upgrade but above my budget at £1100! EBC any good with ss braded pipes? Any suggestions and advise very welcome.

[Specky]

Welcome...

I run EBC Green stuff pads with EBC slotted and dimpled disks...

IMHO they're ok, nothing special to write home about.. But they are a vast improvement on the OEM ones...

All the different brake mods have there pro and cons, so it's more a question of reading through the brake threads and plumping for your choice.

TTFN


Chris... H&C...

[shaunh]

thanks for the reply. I have been trying to read into the exhaust, freaky boost issue and the magic of the everest chip but am totally confused. I am geeting the Peco exhaust and will fit to my standard car providing it does not cause a problem with the turbo boost?Is there an issue with a larger bore exhaust? Is the everest compatable with the addition of the exhaust and is the chip just suitable for the track as indicated on Alan's web site or can it be inserted in an everyday car as long as your careful with the right pedal? Some help for a beginner who doesn't want to ruin his car would be greatly appreciated. Any elan meets coming up?

[Elanlover]

Hi shaunh and welcome!

I think you'll find that many LEC'ers feel there's a handful of "must have" upgrades to the Elan which can really unlock the potential of the car and turn it into the gem it was meant to be. The Everest chip being one of them.

I installed one in mine this summer and it makes a very noticeable improvement in power and FUN. The way Alan designed it, however, is that the extra power is available when you plant your foot firmly on the throttle, not when driving "normally" if you know what I mean. This allows the car to retain its excellent drivability characteristics when on the way to the store, etc. Definitely worth the money. Some guy named Doug (I think he had something to do with this site or something..... ) suggested that I wait a few months before installing it to get used to the car's stock performace and it was good advice.

Other things that I would consider "must haves" include (all of which are discussed on this site):

1. ElanScan software - Free but you need a cable made for the interface to your laptop computer

2. Brake Upgrade - Even without any performance upgrades this is a good one to get. The Elan's brakes are NOT its best component. Brian (F1 LOTUS) built an upgrade kit that allows us to mount Wilwood calipers et. al. and has been endorsed by everyone here. If you're getting a large bore exhaust which helps improve performance then these should be on your list at some point.

3. Stereo - Ditch the stock stereo, go buy a monster amp, high end speakers and a great head unit. Drop the roof (hood), get it up to about 90mph (easy to do if you've already bought the first 3 upgrades) and turn up the volume. That's MUSIC you're hearing for the first time at that speed.

There's lots of other improvements and upgrades to read about here and you may end up spending as much on those as you did the car (or more) over the years like I'm doing right now But, its all worth it!

As for the large bore exhaust, I'm leaving mine for now as the performance hit from the chip is plenty good right now. Most people (but not all) have reported that the combination of a large bore exhaust AND the chip can lead to an overboost situation. This means that, with the freer flowing exhaust, the turbo wastegate can't expell enough excess exhaust and the turbo generates more boost than allowed causing the engine to cut out (simplified explanation) when this condition occurs.

There's 2 fixes for this. Some people have "ported" there wastegates buy enlarging the opening which permits more exhaust to escape. The other fix is to insert a smaller gasket (as in 2") in one of the exhaust junctions which slows the exhaust through the system but kind of defeats the purpose of the large bore exhaust to begin with.

Someone jump in if I didn't get that exactly right.

[ESM]

Hi shaunh and welcome!
As for the large bore exhaust, I'm leaving mine for now as the performance hit from the chip is plenty good right now. Most people (but not all) have reported that the combination of a large bore exhaust AND the chip can lead to an overboost situation. This means that, with the freer flowing exhaust, the turbo wastegate can't expell enough excess exhaust and the turbo generates more boost than allowed causing the engine to cut out (simplified explanation) when this condition occurs.

There's 2 fixes for this. Some people have "ported" there wastegates buy enlarging the opening which permits more exhaust to escape. The other fix is to insert a smaller gasket (as in 2") in one of the exhaust junctions which slows the exhaust through the system but kind of defeats the purpose of the large bore exhaust to begin with.

Someone jump in if I didn't get that exactly right.

Jump The boost creep problem is completely an exhaust issue. In general if a car doesn't overboost with a big exhaust then it won't overboost if a chip is added too. If the car does overboost with just the exhaust then the chip might even improve or fix it because it pushes the fuel cut boost threshold a little higher.

[shaunh]

Thanks very much guys. Does this mean in simple terms if i fit the exhaust and i have bad luck and my wastegate doesn't cope i port the wastegate. (is this easy and ok for the car?). Second, the everest chip is a totally separate issue which does not cause any adverse affects to the car, but gives it the performance we all desire when you floor it? Clarification on these matters would be greatly appreciated and a few beers at the next elan meet if your not driving home of course.

[Elanlover]

Based on Alan's corrections to my ramblings, you might want to fit your exhaust (sounds like you have it or its on the way) and see if you get overboost. If you do, the chip won't make it worse (or cause overboost if you get none with your new exhaust) but it might even help it. If the chip doesn't help then one of the 2 fixes mentioned previously would be the route to go.

You can do a search on the forum to get details on porting the wastegate.

[shaunh]

cheers! How do i find out about the Wilwood brakes? How much are they and where do i get them. Piggy Dave just noticed your off to Iraq. Good luck mate!

[Elanlover]

Brakes:

http://lotuselancentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6243

There's other threads in the forum about them too. Just do a search!

[mikeydude]

Welcome to the forum...and to the Elan sir!

As for brakes.....I upgraded the pads to ebc greenstuff types and fitted the grooved disks and, in my opinion, what a waste of money..in fact for normal driving I found them worse than stock since they don't have good "low speed grab" (even worse still when they are cold).

The only real way to get improvement is to upgrade the calipers and disks.


My upgraded brakes changed the entire feel of the car.

The Wilwoods seem a good economic option...people have had problems with them but they seem to have got them resolved one way or another..

They have two disadvantages that I can see though. Wilwood do not do a kit that fits the Elan. Instead you have to get brackets supplied by an LEC member who has them custom made (the bracket is the bit that holds the calliper onto the car....this is one complete cast iron unit, in the case of the stock calliper, but the upgrades are a standard calliper that uses various sized brackets with various hole positions etc to fit the differing arrangements on each car type that they are to be fitted to.

The other disadvantage is that the wilwoods are primarily designed for track use and not heavy mileage sort of road use. They do away with the normal design, which utilises rubber seals that protect the piston walls and cylinders from the elements..This makes the calliper smaller and lighter (a bit!).

Now, this tends not to be a problem if you are prepared to maintain them by cleaning them periodicaly. But, as the pads wear away, the piston pushes out of the cylinder and the now exposed piston walls become dirty and eventually maybe even corroded.

Now it is essential that both no dirt at all gets into the internals of a caliper and that the piston does not become damaged or coroded in any way.

But, with the wilwood design, this dirt can be drawn into the cylinder, by the action of pushing the pistons back in to make space for new pads, the internal seals and walls of the cylinders. This can lead to premature failure or reduced efficiency of the braking system.

There is another readily available upgrade that some people such as myself have fitted to their Elans (have a look at the picy on the left!).

A small British company called Hi-spec motorsport makes them.

As you might expect they also have issues and they have be maligned at great length on this forum...not so much from a quality of product aspect but more from the poor after sales support that the manufacturer offer (or don't offer!!)
I would certainly always go to a dealer not to hi spec directly to buy hi-spec bits and make sure they have your brakes in stock as delivery from hi-spec can be an issue.

I believe people have also had problems with disk warping etc...but they seem to be people that have separate bell and disk set ups (rotor for our US friends). I cannot comment on this since I have normal solid disks. and had no problems whatsoever with my hi-spec brakes after several thousand miles of use, but it should be noted that I have never done any track days and I don't really give 'em that much stick!

I did, however have a problem with fitting them as the supplied brackets were made too big..This I found out was because the kit was made for an s2 with it's bigger wheels (hi-spec did not seen to understand that there are two wheel sizes on the Elan.

Oh, and the normal banjo bolts don't fit, they are a different thread..I got mine from a motorbike shop in stainless steel, plus I fitted stainless blead nipples since they can be seen though the wheel!

This was quickly sorted by the supplier as they have all the engineering gear and the milled down the disk and brackets slightly and they told me that they will ensure they are ok from now on -they even travelled a 90 mile round trip to then fit them for me for free! as they were so concerned at there being a problem!!

I will not mention the supplier since certain LEC members seem unreasonably intolerant (in fact impolite) of my support of the hi-spec product. When all I have tried to do is put forward my honest personal experience. (PM me if you want to have there contact details) then I can't be accused of advertising or something!

It should be noted though that from my brief experience of the willwoods (I have driven an Elan with Wilwoods and that's about it!) that they seem superb in fact just as good as my Hi-specs...but there is no doubt the hi-specs look better..Bling Bling!!!

Oh I also have Alans Everest chip fitted.....god it's good...loads more power...

[ESM]

Jump The boost creep problem is completely an exhaust issue. In general if a car doesn't overboost with a big exhaust then it won't overboost if a chip is added too. If the car does overboost with just the exhaust then the chip might even improve or fix it because it pushes the fuel cut boost threshold a little higher.

The very day I posted this I got my first report of overboost with chip + exhaust not present with exhaust only. Its not common but it, now, it has happened.

[mikeydude]

thanks for the PM.....you have one

[shaunh]

you guys have lost me? Can someone answer this question in black and white: If you put a peko upgrade exhaust on a elan se turbo 1990 you will enjoy bhp and musical benefits without any over boost problems? Or...is it just luck one way or the other and no one really knows as the mechanics of the elan are human and variable? I viewed the original elan exhaust for the first time today and from a mechanically uneducated human with a designers background (in the building industry which is in the prehistoric ages i admit) it looks like a bodget job as we have run out of time and money and that will do blah blah blah. Sorry Lotus but it happens to all of us.

Comments welcome.

[shaunh]

hi again, just been searching through the site and what i am asking must frustrate the gods as the same questions keep coming over and over again. Should the web site upgrades section be updated to answer these questions in simple terms?

[GeoffSmith]

If you put a peko upgrade exhaust on a Elan se turbo 1990 you will enjoy bhp and musical benefits AND MAY SUFFER FROM over boost problems?

Shaun, there doesn't seem to be a pattern as to whether you will suffer overboost or not. I do, but I don't drive with my right foot nailed to the floor so I rarely see it. Also, when I do floor it, I am careful not to hold it too long otherwise the fuel is cutoff - all it takes is the slightest easing of the throttle and it is becoming a habit so I don't even think about it. I can live with this until I get around to porting the wastegate.

I have an advantage in that I can switch between stock and Everest mode. The Everest helps, I believe by providing more boost thereby accelerating faster and having to change up before fuel cutoff and also by increasing the fuel cutoff boost level slightly.

Geoff

[Elanlover]

shaunh, its quite possible (perhaps even likely) that the inconsistency regarding whether you get overboost with a large bore exhaust, with a chip, the chip cures it, the chip adds to it, etc. is not due to the design of the car or "human failings" in production. Keep in mind that you are modifying a 10 - 15 year old car that's been driven by its previous owners in ways unknown to any of us. There's not likely to be any Elan today that's exactly the same regardless of age or condition.

I'll bet that's what's at the root of this question not having a defined and consistent answer.

Having said that, I'd go with what I previously suggested. install the Peco you've bought and test for overboost. If none is present, get the chip. If you get some, get the chip anywa to see if you'll improve the overboost situation. You can always go with one of the 2 fixes after.

[shaunh]

thanks for all your help. Had a nightmare today, lost the rear end of the elan round a corner and wait through a bank and hedge, just missed the oncoming traffic, phew. Extent of damage is unknown yet but definately need my front bumper and grills sorting out.

[Specky]

thanks for all your help. Had a nightmare today, lost the rear end of the Elan round a corner and wait through a bank and hedge, just missed the oncoming traffic, phew. Extent of damage is unknown yet but definately need my front bumper and grills sorting out.

Hope your ok,

The old girl can be repaired..

TTFN

[mikeydude]

I hope things work out OK mate....get in touch if you need help

[Elanlover]

thanks for all your help. Had a nightmare today, lost the rear end of the Elan round a corner and wait through a bank and hedge, just missed the oncoming traffic, phew. Extent of damage is unknown yet but definately need my front bumper and grills sorting out.

Uhhmmm..............maybe byou should forget about the everest chip for a while

Do hope its not serious though