Confirm:S2 needs cat if first registered post 31/7/95

[RayD]

The actual figures I achieved at my last MoT were

0.423% and 95ppm

For comparison mine were

0.17% and 75ppm

Ray

[ailwyn]

I've got the printout of the emissions test from my recent MOT.

Piper 2.5" with cat, no precat (Nitroman PCE).

My garage knows that it should be catted and tests as such:

Fast Idle
CO %vol Max 0.200 Actual 0.097
HC ppm vol Max 200 Actual 40
Lambda Max 1.030 Min 0.970 Actual 1.029

Natural Idle
CO %vol Max 0.300 Actual 0.060

Ailwyn

[max and andy]

Ailwyn would you be in your rights to ask for your car to be tested as a SE? If the DVLA only wants the figures to be below the SE levels. A&M

[ektrolleyboy]

Sorry!
Off topic I know...
Ailywyn. Are you getting boost creep being as you're running a sports cat'. I'm not with my 2.25 system. So far anyway...

[Nige]

To the best of my knowledge the database used in support of MoT testing does not differentiate betwwen the SE and S2. There is some sense in that as whilst the S2 cars were assembled after the requirement for Cats was introduced and Lotus stayed within the spirit of the law by fitting Cats, the engines were the 800 or so left when production of the SE ceased and thus predate the requirement for Cats.

The irony is that pre computerised MoTs the test centre had to apply some thought and tested the car based on the requirements of the model year. Since the test was computerised the computer decides and no thought is applied.

[Enright]

The actual figures I achieved at my last MoT were

0.423% and 95ppm

For comparison mine were

0.17% and 75ppm

Ray

For an SE that indicates a very good state of tune to me Ray - I haven't heard any better.
Mine were 0.65% & 146ppm earlier this week.
That's on a 110,000 mile car, but it's actually less than half last year's figures.

[RayD]

Thanks Neil,

It’s probably due to the low mileage and regular use.

The only thing I do differently is never to start a car engine unless it’s going somewhere.

Just out of interest, I mentioned on here a previous MOT certificate was signed by Colin Chapman ... the next one was signed by Dave Massey who shares his name with the Senior Technical Author at Lotus.

CO17.jpg

Lotus Dave Massey.jpg

Ray

[max and andy]

Why never start if your not going to drive somewhere? A&M

[RayD]

Max and Andy

It’ll be one of those memorable things someone told me a long time ago. There’ll have been a conversation about the problems associated with engines not getting up to temperature to accompany it.

It might be a load of rubbish.

Having said that it’s no trouble to me, I don’t have to shuffle cars on the drive, and with the garage floor being almost level I can easily roll them in and out.

Ray

[owentec]

We struggled to get our 92-93 SE passed as a non-cat car for our recent mot. They were also keen to fail it for "part of exhaust system missing" (ie the cat). Fortunately, I found an old mot certificate where the car had been tested as a non-cat car, and so they agreed to test it as such as well.

Is it likely that our car should have a cat on it and its been removed by a previous owner? The car was manufactured in Jan 92 and registered Sept 92.

[rip]

Is it likely that our car should have a cat on it and its been removed by a previous owner? The car was manufactured in Jan 92 and registered Sept 92.

Doubtful.

I have not heard of any UK SEs which had a cat from new.
A CAT'ed car would have an O2 sensor (&1499 ECU to understand it) otherwise the emissions would clog up the cat.
Removing the O2 sensor, swapping the ECU & fitting a CO pot is a lot of work for no gain so I doubt anyone would have done this.
Your O2 sensor would stick out of your turbo heat shield. If you have a blanking bolt there, you've not got one.

[owentec]

Is it likely that our car should have a cat on it and its been removed by a previous owner? The car was manufactured in Jan 92 and registered Sept 92.

Doubtful.

I have not heard of any UK SEs which had a cat from new.
A CAT'ed car would have an O2 sensor (&1499 ECU to understand it) otherwise the emissions would clog up the cat.
Removing the O2 sensor, swapping the ECU & fitting a CO pot is a lot of work for no gain so I doubt anyone would have done this.
Your O2 sensor would stick out of your turbo heat shield. If you have a blanking bolt there, you've not got one.

It definately doesn't have an O2 sensor. I did think that at the time, but wasn't confident enough to argue that point with the MOT man. Since its all computerised now, I can't understand why he came to the conclusion that it should have a cat!

[max and andy]

So am i right in saying that reading the posts and figures given. (A thread how to read the emission figures guide would be good) Unless you have a friendly MOT man. Or your S2 is tested as an SE as an oversight. Your S2 will not pass the computerised max figures set by the DVLA if logged in as an S2.
Without a cat fitted. Is that correct? Andy

[rip]

So am i right in saying that reading the posts and figures given. (A thread how to read the emission figures guide would be good) Unless you have a friendly MOT man. Or your S2 is tested as an SE as an oversight. Your S2 will not pass the computerised max figures set by the DVLA if logged in as an S2.
Without a cat fitted. Is that correct? Andy

Geoff's cat-less S2 has passed several MOTs. I believe he takes this to his local testing station who do him no special favours.
As with most things, this can vary from car to car.

[max and andy]

I thought when looking at Geoffs figures he would of failed if tested against the DVLA S2 figures. He was tested at both garages at under 3.5. Not the s2 max of 0.5.and 0.3. Or am i reading it wrong? A&M

[paulrwebster]

A recap and summary of the details of my experiences:

Both testing stations that have passed my car used a single CO maximum limit of 3.5% and HC maximum limit of 1200ppm. I did question this at my first MoT, but was told that the figures were taken directly from the DoT database. The actual figures I achieved at my last MoT were 0.423% and 95ppm respectively. These are taken from the computerised Sun DGA 2500 printout. I am unsure whether the CO figure is taken at idle or fast idle, however it is obviously below the 0.5% @ idle but above the 0.3% @ fast idle general guide figures quoted in Haynes.

Do any S2 owners have different limit figures (i.e. idle and fast idle limits for CO emissions) and if so, what are those limits?

Yes, from three different testing stations:
Fast Idle 3000 rpm CO % vol Max 0.200 Actual 0.064
HC ppm Volume Max 200 Actual 20
Natural Idle 1500 rpm C0 % vol Max 0.300 Actual 0.013

The same limits were applied by three different testing stations, the vehicle model is not quoted on any of the printouts so I guess they just take a default setting, the S2 not being on the database and having a cat.
Anyway, I have ordered a Piper with a Sports Cat today so I will be everyone's slow relation.

[max and andy]

Are you getting rid of the Gunk-ed up pre cat Paul? Looking at our old one its a must just to let the engine breath again properly. A&M

[paulrwebster]

Are you getting rid of the Gunk-ed up pre cat Paul? Looking at our old one its a must just to let the engine breath again properly. A&M

No I'm not going to risk it. If I hollow out the pre cat and fail the emissions test then it is £250 for a new one (well one is on ebay at the moment for £250) and I'm not really doing this for performance reasons, my back box and and mid section are shot, the MOT is due so it makes sense to but a whole new system. I've had a cambelt change, two new handbrake cables, a rebuilt radiator and a new fan in the last couple of months so I am going the safe route at the moment. I guess that if it comes through the MOT comfortably within the emissions limit I could add in a PCE at a later date, but not just now.

[paulrwebster]

I have a cunning plan, we all swap engines

According to this VOSA notice if you swap the engine, the emissions are based on the age of the engine. As all of our engines are left over from the SE's we're sorted. Can I have first dibs on Max and Andy's engine please

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/reposit ... 476766301a


"What if the vehicle is fitted with a different
engine?
If the vehicle is fitted with a different engine
from the one it was originally fitted with, then
for emission purposes you should test to the
limits determined by either the vehicle type or
engine – whichever is older. For example, if
you are presented with a 1995 car fitted with a
1991 engine of any make, you should test
it according to the age of the engine. In this
case, you need to do a non-CAT test, with
limits of 3.5% CO and 1,200ppm HC.
It’s up to the owner to prove the age of the
engine or vehicle, for example with a letter
from the manufacturer.
You can find out more on page 4 of the
Inspection Manual under section 7.3,
‘Vehicles fitted with a different engine’.

[paulrwebster]

I think that I might be getting somewhere. I have discovered that the VOSA web site http://www.vosa.gov.uk carries pages from the MOT Inspection manual. If a car is registered between 1 August 92 and 31 July 95, they first test it against CO of .2% and .3%. If it passes, you get a certificate. If it fails, they look for an exact match on the analyser database. If they find one, they test against the vehicle specific limits, if it is not there they test against CO less than 3.5%.